Terrible First day

Man today was so bad for me. I just deposited some money and started to play at Party Poker and just did not do well. My first $1 SnG I got knocked out due to terrible cards coming my way. I played some micro cash and actually made some money at the .01/.02, actually stacking someone. I went up to .02/.04 and actually made a profit of $2.50. Feeling great, I continued playing where I then got stacked and am now down $6 from my initial starting point, essentially losing $8 in a single session. I guess im steaming like crazy now cause the cards just did not come my way today except for a few great ones.

I got stacked at the .02/.04 I think because I was steaming and went all in preflop with 99 (stupid move I think since even though I was on the button, this isnt a SnG. Just had to get called by JJ. Problem was I kept on receiving terrible cards like 72o, 230, 82o, K2. 99 was my best hand of the session. The one time I got AK, the flop gives me low and mid cards and I face a half pot raise on the flop).

When do you guys decide when its enough and when to play? I initially thought I was going to stop for the day with $2 profit but remembered pros like Ivey saying they should keep on playing when they are winning and stop when they are losing. Today started off well but I lost it all and then some. Guess im going back to .01/.02 and just grind it out.

Hey man,

It's prob best to stick to one game type (SNG or cash - but I would go with cash as I think the rake is extortionate for $1 SNGs on party).

And start at the bottom until you are beating that level, even if it seems boring. This is especially important if you are going on tilt from losing one buy-in at 4NL. What kind of BRM do you use? You shouldn't be steaming from losing one buy-in...

I would never shove 99 in a cash game!! (unless against a really small-stack) Good for later stages of a SNG but not in a cash game.

I think its fine to keep on playing while you are winning, as long as you don't go into a zombie like state from playing too long. More important I think is to stop when you are losing (although I myself find that difficult). Say you lose 3BI in a day, its prob time to quit and try again tomorrow.

GL

There is nothing terribly wrong with playing both cash games and SnG's, as long as you're able to distinguish the differences between the two. The problem comes in when beginning players try to play both and absolutely don't have a high regard for either type of game individually, let alone together.

There are a couple things that I see in your post that shows me this. The first that you were playing a $1 SnG, which the rake just rapes everyone on. Second, after you stack someone at 2NL once, you jump up to 4NL.... if you're steaming about losing a $1 SnG and $6 over the course of a session, then you aren't playing your BRM very well.

Read, post, and learn is all I have to say to you.

While we all know there are days when the cards flow like sweet wine, we also know there are those especially dead card days. But most of the time the cards are neutral. It is those days that you have to learn about. Those are the situations we can advise on.

The game, in general, is less about the cards, and more about the 'situations'. Position, and reads, even online, are as important as the cards.

You know you can play AA fine, well, get this....EVERYONE CAN! How do you play 67o limped in the bb, or 93s when you open in the sb? What meta game notion will you need to have created to make that UTG 33 win the pot?

Patience will teach you than you might go an hour in a MTT or even a slow STT before seeing a situation worth exploiting. Not a cash guy so I can't offer any decent idea how long that might take at a ring game.

Stop fixating on the cards, and start learning the dynamics of what is going on each hand, and how those dynamics change.

FWIW, every time I see a long string of crummy cards, I feel fine, cuz I know some monsters are coming.......

When I lose $6 and it 'tilts me', then I know it's time to stop.

The reality is, if you don't feel you are sharp, stop. Typically only bad things happen from there on.

^^this. Playing in a tourney a couple of weeks ago, I was mildly irritated to be dealt pocket pairs three times in one orbit when there were still ~30 players remaining. I knew that it would then be proportionately less likely that I would have great cards at the final table, when the money jumps would be much larger.

In the course of a long tourney (or cash session) you will see hundreds of hands, some good, some bad. The secret of success is to maximise your winnings when you have good cards and to minimise your loss when you do not. The latter is every bit as important as the former.

I sense a disturbance in the discipline... What I read from your post is that you don't have enough discipline to make the right decision in the right time. Anyone that is shoving 99 in a ring game will probably be called by either a fish or something that beats it or flips it.

We all get card dead from time to time and then get a heater and then normal and so on and so forth. It's part of the game, we need to keep cool and disciplined otherwise we are offering money to someone else.

EDIT: I stop playing when I'm tired, when I played for a set amount of time or when I'm not at my best. My winnings and losses have nothing to do with it really. If I'm tilting, which I admit is quite rare, I take a break. If I'm really really really tilting, I do play some UFC Unleashed or Pro Evolution Soccer.

what? lol each hand has the same probability. If I get AA one hand, it doesn't change the chance of getting AA the next lol. It does not get "proportionally less."

Wrong, I am afraid. That is only true if you consider each hand as a separate event in an infinite series. However, if you consider that your tournament is a finite series which might contain (for example) 200 hands, it is clearly more likely that within that set of hands you will be dealt AA (again, for example) twice than three times. Therefore, if you have already received it twice, it is less likely that you will receive it again in the remaining portion of the tournament.

Why move up in buyin level? You're winning when you start out at 2nl so why jump to 4nl? (this makes zero sense to me).
How many hands are we talking about in this session (saying you received 'bad cards'.... so.. just don't play any hands. In 2nl it often doesn't matter .... meaning you can nit it right up & still get paid off when you do get big hands!).
I'd personally stick with one or the other (re: sng's or cash). Don't bounce back & forth between the two because the 'thinking' & game theory stuff is sooooooo different & if you're not really experienced it'll just keep you from getting better at either one.

Why get it in w 99 pre (assuming 100bb's deep) on a 2nl table? I sense it might be due to having a harder time playing postflop (which is obv. super important when playing 100+bb deep on cash tables).

As far as when to stop & when to keep playing. If we're "losing" but we feel we're playing good (& also obviously not letting it affect us emotionally) then why would we stop playing? (< this makes zero sense to me?????).

My rule of thumb is that if I'm still thinking about a beat that happened a couple of hands ago, it's time to take a break. Impossible to play my best if I'm not absolutely engaged in the current hand/decision...

Have you ever been stuck in groundhog day?
Of course each hand is unique and has the exact same probabilities of some particular event occurring. However, as Egon said, any session, tourney or ring, will not be completely dominated by you getting 83o every hand (if I could I would make you suffer such a session.)

So if you rely on probabilities, you must realize that while 200 or so hands will seldom fill all the probability cubby holes (can't actually becuz there are 1326 unique possible holdem starting hands*), the range of your hands will fit a gross approximation of the range of probabilities of 200 or so hands.

Deductive logic says that you could actually get 43 43o's in a row. Inductive logic says that event is more improbable than just about anything else you could imagine, and thus won't happen with a very very very large certainty.

I should add that the laws of probabilities will seek standard distributions over time. This is why I believe that a streak of crummy cards will be offset by (hopefully) a streak of grand cards. Which then suggests that our tiltee is suffering an abnormal distribution of streakiness, and should therefore be happy with an extended streak of crummy cards as the implication is that an extended streak of grand cards is somewhere down the line. This is where practice to minimize the loses comes in. Be prepared to maximize the profits soon.



* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_hold_%27em_starting_hands

Thanks for the responses and support. Sorry for the rant but I was steaming for a bit and was finding what level I could play at. Party's lowest buy-in for cash is .01/.02 so I think Im going to stick there for a bit. Technically, I have the BR to play at .02/.04 but I wanted to see what level I could play at efficiently but after running good on the .01/.02 tables, running bad on the .02/.04 did not sit well.

I know that everyone can play AA well and it is often harder to play 67o or K4o to make money, but the thing is I feel that in micros cash you got to play a little tight since there are people who just call down whatever. Shoving 99 was stupid and I realize I probably should have stood up sooner and that was totally my bad. Maybe I should loosen up a little?

What is your bankroll out of curiosity? I don't think you need to loosen up, jsut try and make sure you're playing TAG. Whenever I play micro limits it seems that some players want to call me all the way down with middle pair despite the fact I'm not even seeing 15% of flops. Look for the value bets, think about position. Watch out for traps (seems to be a favourite every time a micro player hits a monster). Another thing though is don't reject everyone as a fish. I've met some decent players at the micros. Don't turn into a calling station because you presume everyone is useless and trying to bluff, just because you think you are a better player than them does not mean that you can beat them with any cards.

my br is $200. I think a problem I have is that I give people too much respect sometimes. If I see a flush draw or two cards, I start fearing a potential flush or trips/full house on the board cause even fish can play Axs and hit well. I then find that the fish later takes down a pot with middle pair...