Stats that....

Hi,

Its my 1st post here. I was told by a friend to go read some forums and I have but also to have my stats checked to find what I am doing wrong.

hands 5397
bb/100 -26.18
VPIP% 32.4
PFR %10.4
3Bet% 0.8
WTSD% 28.1
W$SD% 45.7
Agg 2.43
Winnings -$1873.95
Agg%40.5
CC%21.1

The above are the stats. I start of really good on tables usually almost double the money I start with then I drop dramatically in 2-3 hands and im out. Same with trnys. Apparently my term is called a Calling Station lol and the least profitable than all other terms even a fish. If I call ppl they have an amazing hand and if I fold they show their hand and go "lol" or put a "" and they was bluffing all alont :-S

1) Maybe ppl catch onto my play style or im just very crap but lucky in the start, idk...

2) I know there are no exact stats but what should I bring them closer to atleast any idea what they should be closer to?

Would appreciate any pointers or anything to help out.

I'll try to help but someone with better knowledge will do better after me. First, what stakes are you playing? What's your bankroll(in regards to how many buyins do you have for your current level)?
You're sample size isn't very big, usually a decent sample is 20,000 hands+ so you may be experiencing negative variance.
Also I can see that tour VPIP/PFR is 32/10. Try playin gless hands and tightening up your starting hand requirements, especially when out of position. When you do enter a pot, come in for a raise. The closer the numbers are together, usually the better, so 18/18 would be much better than 32/10. Your 3-bet is very low aswell, maybe try 3-betting more in position with strong hands than flat calling a raise. I'm not so sure on the other stats but these points should help you for now.
Also, maybe have a stop win/loss point, for example if you make 2.5x your buyin on one table and people start to leave and you start to lose, leave and open a new table. Aswell, if you drop 2 buyins on a table or find one difficult to win at, move to a new table. Hope this helps

Wow, playing 32/10 at 100nl or something like that? No wonder you're getting raped.

First thing to do is to drop down massively in stakes until you learn how to play the game, unless you really don't care much about the money.

On the other hand, if you really don't mind losing that kind of money, what you need to do is tell me where you play and i'll join your tables. So that I can give you better feedback on your game, obviously...

Hi,

Thanks alot for the response.

I play at $1/$2 mostly and somtimes drop to .50/1

I try and enter with BB:
9/10 + non suited (A8, A7, A9, A10)
2/3 + Suited (3/5, 4/6, 5/7)

I enter with a raise:
2/2 - J/J I raise

I reraise:
KK/AA/QQ/AK/KQ/AJ/AQ I reraise

This is the general type of hands I enter with and the bets I make.

I kinda get annoyed when I fold with a K3 suited and see there was a flush or 6/9 unsuited and see I would have had a full house so it im towards the end and the guy after me is the BB and its cheap I pay the BB to see the flop if I can...

BelgoSuisse said:

Wow, playing 32/10 at 100nl or something like that? No wonder you're getting raped.

First thing to do is to drop down massively in stakes until you learn how to play the game, unless you really don't care much about the money.

Click to expand...

You typed while I was typing. What should it be then? Am I being too aggressive and paying too much prior to see flop? I just thought that seeing flop is quite important and folding if you need to afterwards if you don't get a good flop?

themask said:

Hi,

Thanks alot for the response.

I play at $1/$2 mostly and somtimes drop to .50/1

I try and enter with BB:
9/10 + non suited (A8, A7, A9, A10)
2/3 + Suited (3/5, 4/6, 5/7)

I enter with a raise:
2/2 - J/J I raise

I reraise:
KK/AA/QQ/AK/KQ/AJ/AQ I reraise

This is the general type of hands I enter with and the bets I make.

I kinda get annoyed when I fold with a K3 suited and see there was a flush or 6/9 unsuited and see I would have had a full house so it im towards the end and the guy after me is the BB and its cheap I pay the BB to see the flop if I can...

Click to expand...

Try to play with 100BB on the table at all times. 100BB= 1 buyin.
Have at the very very least 20 full buyins for that level.
Tighten up your starting hands they are waaay too loose to be successful with unless you really know what you're doing. Do you play 6 or 9-max?
Try and stop limping.
Early position: Raise AQsuited+, AKo+, 10-10+, fold almost everything else.
Middle position: Hands above plus AJsuited+,AJoff, 88+, KQs/o+
Late position: As above plus A9s+, ATo+, KJs+,KJo+, maybe suited connectors 9-10, TJ+,JQ+, 55+. Maybe limp 22-55, some suited connectors and suited one gappers like 10-8s.
Blinds: Tighten up, you don't need to call a minraise in the BB with 9-3 off suit because you want to defend it.

If you are almost just beginning to adopt a Tight aggressive (TAG) style, You should only be reraising a raiser (3-betting) with probably(JJ) QQ+, AK+. I wouldn't recommend it with KQ/AQ/AJ as these hands can be dominated and get you in trouble.
Good luck

Also, just seen your last comment, you don't need to see lots of flops with suited, connected crap, or raggy hands. Select the better starting hands and play them aggressively, but don't get married to top pair top kicker TPTK)

Ben put it together nicely.

While playing LAG can be profitable it's much harder to master.

There's no failsafe way to play or chart that always works but you should move along the lines as layed out.

If your stats looked like this you'd probably run better.

This will be a lot tighter yet not too nitty.

Hands 40k+
bb/100 +3.0
VPIP% ~15-18% (EP ~5; BTN 20-25)
PFR % ~12%
3Bet% 3-4%
WTSD% not sure here... about 50%
W$SD% 50+
Agg 2.43 (2-4)
Winnings 1+
Agg% not sure here - depends
CC% <10

Hope I didn't totally blow it lol.

Looks good to me Graf

themask said:

You typed while I was typing. What should it be then?

Click to expand...

unless you really don't care about money, you should move down to $0.05/$0.10 or below until you figure out a way to win. And play tighter, obviously.

btw, do you play FR or 6max? Ideal stats would be pretty different depending on that.

I'm going to put it another way - If I am playing with you enough to see your VPiP is over 32 on my HUD - I will go out of my way to get into hands with you. The reason being it is statistically impossible that you have good hands that many times. The only way you can even compensate for a VPiP that high is to be WAY more aggressive and be a master at playing after the flop. The other stats show me that is not at all the case - so I want to be in the hand with you. Then you will call me a donk because I came in with QT after your once in a blue moon fearsome pre-flop raise.
The reason you start off good is players generally give the other guy the benefit of the doubt at the start until they see you are playing way more pots than can statistically be justified. You need to get your VPiP in the range of 20 for now and as you become more selective about your starting hands (they are better), your PFR should start to come up also.
I am a profitable player (not by much) and my VPiP is about 18. In my case I play MTT (not huge - 5 to 10 table) and it is not unusual for me to come to the final table with a VPiP under 10.

Now you say:
I try and enter with BB:
9/10 + non suited (A8, A7, A9, A10)
2/3 + Suited (3/5, 4/6, 5/7)

STOP THAT CRAP RIGHT NOW. #1 Take a deeper look at your stats by PF hand and you will see how much money this is losing you. I understand - that's probably what you read in a book or got told (I used to do same thing), but those kind of hands have qualifiers.

For example I have 78s in middle position and it has been folded to me - do I (as a guy learning to become profitable):
a) Limp in hoping to hit the flop
b) Raise to take advantage of fold equity.
c) Fold because it's not worth it.

I am folding, BUT that changes if I am BTN or CO and especially if a couple guys are already in the hand and especially if they limped. Now it becomes worth taking a shot. Before it was not worth the gamble - which is all it really was. In other words, those hands you listed must meet criteria to go in with. Know what I doing with A7 UTG? Folding. Didn't use to - but the stats don't lie - this is a leak. Hell, at first I used to shove 78s cause Phil Gordon ranks it above AJ - what I didn't know at the time was he had a lot less respect for AJ than I did. I thought it was a great hand.
DISCLAIMER
Now other guys who KNOW what they are doing and are way beyond hoping to hit the flop - they may very well play these hands. Well them and the gamblers. You should not until you get a whole lot more hands under your belt (like 100,000+). Also, to be fair, I am starting to play those hands more, but I feel a lot more competent.

Bottom line - you are over valuing quite a few hands. Check your stats according to your starting hands and it will become very evident where you need to back off.

Good luck! NOT
PLAY SMART!

themask said:

Hi,

Its my 1st post here. I was told by a friend to go read some forums and I have but also to have my stats checked to find what I am doing wrong.

Hands 5397
bb/100 -26.18
VPIP% 32.4
PFR %10.4
3Bet% 0.8
WTSD% 28.1
W$SD% 45.7
Agg 2.43
Winnings -$1873.95
Agg%40.5
CC%21.1

The above are the stats. I start of really good on tables usually almost double the money I start with then I drop dramatically in 2-3 hands and im out. Same with trnys. Apparently my term is called a Calling Station lol and the least profitable than all other terms even a fish. If I call ppl they have an amazing hand and if I fold they show their hand and go "lol" or put a "" and they was bluffing all alont :-S

1) Maybe ppl catch onto my play style or im just very crap but lucky in the start, idk...

2) I know there are no exact stats but what should I bring them closer to atleast any idea what they should be closer to?

Would appreciate any pointers or anything to help out.

Click to expand...

Hi guys thanks alot.

I play 9's

I think i get it a bit more now. Like you said Ben, play tighter but when the better hand comes be more generous with betting etc...

Is there a guide to what type of hands it is best to enter the flop with for my type of player?
I am a player that likes to see many flops so that falls under LAG, a noob LAG but LAG none the less...?

MediaBlitz thanks for all the feedback! Will definately bring my VPIP down for now and be more selective with what I see the flop with.

Will see how I do from there and develop.

themask said:

Hi guys thanks alot.

I play 9's

I think i get it a bit more now. Like you said Ben, play tighter but when the better hand comes be more generous with betting etc...

Is there a guide to what type of hands it is best to enter the flop with for my type of player?
I am a player that likes to see many flops so that falls under LAG, a noob LAG but LAG none the less...?

Click to expand...

Frankly, as a noob, you should first adopt and master TAG play - but if you are not convinced -

Check out this thread

Just remember - you need to qualify a lot of these hands. It's not just jump in because you have a suited gapper. Position and pot odds and who is in the hand are all variables that determine whether to roll the dice or not.

themask said:

Hi guys thanks alot.

I play 9's

I think i get it a bit more now. Like you said Ben, play tighter but when the better hand comes be more generous with betting etc...

Is there a guide to what type of hands it is best to enter the flop with for my type of player?
I am a player that likes to see many flops so that falls under LAG, a noob LAG but LAG none the less...?

Click to expand...

Maybe a rhyme is appropiate for you:

There once was a LAG from Wichita
Who thought he was on a heater
He flopped a two pair
but to his despair
it was crushed by a set for a beater.


LAG is bad for you.

I will 2nd, that above everything else, when I see someone is a consistent 32.4 in 200NL over many hands, they are almost 100% big money losing players via PTR. Interesting thing I noticed in your stats, is that you indicate a high range for 3 bets, yet your 3 bet % is very low. If you play as many hands as you do, you would be much more successful increasing 3 bets in 200NL. Although that type of strategy could increase your losses even more (certainly will increase variance). Best to lower VPIP as others have suggested.

It appears you are just calling to much, and likely calling preflop raises instead of just limping

grafkarow said:

Maybe a rhyme is appropiate for you:

There once was a LAG from Wichita
Who thought he was on a heater
He flopped a two pair
but to his despair
it was crushed by a set for a beater.

Click to expand...

Amazing that you could rhyme Wichita with heater... HEY! WAIT A MINUTE.......

themask said:

I am a player that likes to see many flops so that falls under LAG, a noob LAG but LAG none the less...?

Click to expand...

That's called a fish.

BelgoSuisse said:

That's called a fish.

Click to expand...

In other words LAG is an advanced strategy.
A noob trying to pull it off is a fish.waiting for the hook.
Gavin Smith can pull it off - you and I cannot. Maybe someday, but not right now.

MediaBLITZ said:

Amazing that you could rhyme Wichita with heater... HEY! WAIT A MINUTE.......

Click to expand...

Reading it aloud helps .

Sinks in better then.

That's called a fish.

Click to expand...

This is another way to put it tbh no offense.

Belgo won't beat around the bush which is effective, too.

Hi,

Played tighter yesterday, did better in trnys than i usually do. folded somany hands I woudla stayed in with and was a very good fold once I saw what the flop was, also stopped some of the calling station and folded to some insane bets which payed off aswell.

Thanks guys started to improve already...

And for Pete's sake, if you fold 6-8 hearts UTG and the flop comes 457 hearts don't sit there and think you made mistake and should have been in the hand and start loosening up. That can happen, but the money you make (save) over the long run by tightening up makes up for it. Especially in tourney, money not lost is as good as money won.

MediaBLITZ said:

And for Pete's sake, if you fold 6-8 hearts UTG and the flop comes 457 hearts don't sit there and think you made mistake and should have been in the hand and start loosening up. That can happen, but the money you make (save) over the long run by tightening up makes up for it. Especially in tourney, money not lost is as good as money won.

Click to expand...

Yeah that happens all the time. I folded a 65o and flop gave the srtaight and after the flop 2 ppl went all in and one had double A and one had double K.

I was like "omg nooo" lol was 4x the blind to enter though so folded obviously, i just got to get over it and remember that all the blinds I would have paid with those hands added up are more than the amount I would have won in that one hand that does fluke out. And there is also no guarentee that once the flop hits that ppl will stay in on the bet...

Been playing for a couple years but I always quit for 10months inbetween cause I lost so much, kinda learning to be less of a fish, still a fish but a harder one.

Thanks guys. If you see a general guide around that has tips and pointers I would love to take a look at it.

Noob LAG's.... are broke.

After you have a very good notion of TAG, you can begin to explore some LAGness, but unless you have a clue LAG is more deadly than URANIAM.

Anything less than 10K hands can ONLY give you an idea of what is happening. So your sample is small. As your hand count increases, and you can make more valid decisions, you might want to look at sub-samples in the 10K range, which for many players is just a long afternoon, but for someone like me might be 2 weeks. That sub-sample, placed in context, will give you valid data to base decisions on.

So experienced players might look at their LAST 10K hands to see if something has changed in comparison to their overall game (all their hands, or the previous 10K hands) either + or - and make adjustments.

My read on the stats in OP are similar, loose but not aggressive, more like FISH (LAP),

For tourneys, expect to see your VPIP closer to 10 than 20, and bring up your PFR's when you do get in a pot. Don't worry to much about 3 betting at this point, those stats indicate places where you might be able to extract more chips in good situations.

As your VPIP decreases, you will probably see a natural rise in WTSD #'s. You will be getting in with better hands and hanging on longer. Natural.

I also agree that you are playing way over your head. Anytime you are down $1800 + your are in deep need of a re-evaluation. Clearly you are re-evaluating as you are posting here,,,,,good work. We can fix you up....