STARTING HANDS

This post is meant to generate discussion, it is not meant to demean anyone and is not directed at any member of Cards Chat.

AA is the best STARTING hand in poker.
Suited connectors are good STARTING hands in poker
Two paint cards are good STARTING hands in poker.

In Texas holdem, there are 7 cards in play for you. You have only 2 of them preflop. They are called STARTING hands for a reason.
AcAd are very nice to see preflop, if the table flops 9h2hkh and turns 5h, they are not longer a great hand, and you will most likley loose with them. If the river is a heart as well, the BEST you can hope for is a split.
JJ is a hand I hate, but there are some that really like them, but if the table shows even one A K or Q, you are most likey going to loose the hand.

Dont get married to your starting (hole) cards. Get the big picture

(note to mods: this is in General as opposed to starting poker because most players do not consider themselves beginners)

I would like to clarify something, Suited connectors are not really a great starting hand, but they have the potential to become a great finishing hand is why they can be so profitable.

I'm one of those folks who really likes J/J as a starting hand. You're really only going to see an overcard on the flop about 55% of the time, cuz it's pretty easy for three rags to fall on a random flop. I like J/J b/c it's very easy to get away from if you feel you're beat, and you can play J/J in almost any way and you're probably not that wrong to do so. You can limp with them and hope to hit a set, raise in early position, raise in late position, flat call from any position, re-raise from nearly any position. And like I said, it's pretty easy to get away from if you're feeling too much pressure from an opponent and think he has you beat. However it's such a versatile hand, and can be played from so many different angles IMO.

reread the post, SCs are "GOOD" not GREAT starting hands

Scemantics aside the point remains the same whether you describe them as good or great or fabulous. SC, and small PP are not very good starting hands if the person playing them doesn't understand things like position, preflop ranges, implied odds , etc. To simply call them good is a little bit to simplistic to generate a discussion if that is what you are looking for.

I think you are missing the point Steve. What I am tryign to say is "Yes, these are good starting hands, but dont fall in love with them. If the board goes aginst you it doesnt matter what 2 cards you are holding, be willing to give them up

I have to agree with Steveg1976. if holdin any suited pocket cards like 9c3c the only thing you are hoping preflopped is the flush, so not even a good hand in this situation and thats a pretty slim chance of catching that flush, not talking of other possible higher flushes round the table against you like AcKc - which is by the way My favourite hand (no particular suite, but should be suited for me) so suited AK i like more than AA, im sick i know

9 3 are NOT connected. in no part of my post did I mention "any two cards". Please READ the posts before replying to them

your right cowboy i missed that.... sorry about that, if you meant connected then your right of course
but still 4c3c ... well your right my bad

EDIT: the reason why i misunderstood was because of that Two paint (paint=painted=thought like suited), not that good in english.... what did you mean by that by the way?

Paint Cards mean Face Cards K, Q, J, usually... I think I am not sure if A are included or 10

Im sorry if that seemed harsh man, I am a bit cranky these days. The point of the post is that no matter how good your hole cards are preflop, its the board that decides what is a winnign hand (or the player if they are good)

1) Agree with the first comment, although cowboy did not say it was a great hand.

2) With suited connectors, the biggest 'thing' you might have included in your 'etc' is stack size. It's certainly not a made hand, nor will a pair necessarily help you. You better not expect to make your hand on the flop, so count on potentially spending a lot to see the river, and of course, as cowboy alluded to, be prepared to fold it up if you don't see at least 2 parts to either a flush or straight or at least 1 part of EACH on the flop.

Bottom line, I'd agree they have the 'potential' to be the 'most' powerful hands with regard to # of outs for a huge hand if you can afford seeing it to the river.

SUITED CONNECTORS ARE DA SHIT!!!

COWBOY WAS RIGHT!!! THEY ARE A "GREAT" HAND!!!

;P

Great discussion about good vs great Have a question though: where is that line if we talk about Ax hands? Is say A5 - A8 good hand, or a folding hand?

I typically fold A5-A8 unless they are suited and I know I can see the flop cheap.

Reason being, is that if you catch an ace on the board, usually there is a better ace out there that can beat you. That leaves you in a tight spot. And if you catch your kicker, then you are also usually beat although your ace makes for a great kicker.

These hands can be a little too hard to let go of after the flop and they can become expensive trying to improve on. That's why I think it's just best to let them go and wait for a better spot.

This is true, but why? You need to elaborate on your answers a bit more.

for those that dont know what hands they should be playing in position preflop, and how they should be playing them, I have a great starting hand chart. Shoot me a pm with your email addy and I will send it to you.

I only look at 1 card and hope for the best.

+EV (especially when 3 betting)

Tell that to most of the people that push all in with J 5 offsuit

When I first started playing I read Bobby Baldwin's section in Super System on starting hands. He's a very solid player, a WSOP Main Event Winner, a regular at the Big Game and is in the Poker Hall of Fame. Good enough credentials for me!!! Later, I read up on the +EV as per David Sklansky. Playing the +EV hands in the correct position. That was an eye opener. A little bit too loose for my taste, though. I do think if you are really new to the game, those might be a good read. I think it will help develop your style of play.

Picking the right starting hands are the basics of Poker, but like our favorite cowboy says.....don't fall in love with them.

If you are playing any two suited cards in any position, or playing A-rag in any position on a regular basis I would strongly recommend you read up on Sklansky for some tips. This might help shorten the learn curve on your way to becoming a solid player.

A lot of these starting hands have to be considered when your IN POSITION.....POSITION.......POSITION!!!!....Took me a while to learn that!

nit

The other point to remember though is that this shouldn't be an excuse for playing good hands weakly preflop.

I'll agree, overplaying hands like aces when the board and the action dictates that you're almost certainly beat is a huge beginner mistake.

The problem is though that a lot of people try to "fix" this mistake by playing their big pairs weakly preflop. Before the flop they'll limp with them or *shudder* even fold them in multi-way pots, all because they've got it in their heads that they always lose tons of chips with aces and the best solution is to get as few in there as possible.

Identifying your mistakes is important. Identifying the right solutions for them is even more important though.

I just did

i think ill play just about any suited connector there is. seems like there are so many possiblilities

yes, too many people fall in love with their starting hands
kinda hard to drop aces or kings, but it may be the only right move sometimes