Should you play poker(for meaningful stakes) with friends

Last night I went to a friend's house to play poker. There were 7 players including me; 3 of whom I am very good friends with, 1 of their younger brothers and 2 guys who I get on reasonably well with. I would happily play €10NL, but the guy whose house it was insisted on €20NL. It's usually a fun game, most players buy in for €20-30 but the host buys in for 500bbs at €100. He is probably my second best friend there, having known him for about 4 years.

Anyway I had been playing reasonably tight and not really picking up anything of note for a few hours. My friend already stacked one of the other guys for €18 calling his A6 shove on a AT4 flop with 34 and rivering trips. A while later I picked up AA, and a reasonably tight player raised 4x from EP. My donk friend flatted and I popped it to €3. Flopped top set and the turn paired the board. After calling the flop my friend managed to catch his gutshot so I won a pot of ~€45. About an hour later I oversetted his little brother who was sitting just as deep as me, which was pretty sick. TT vs 55 on T56r.

So a while later I'm sitting with €90, knowing I'm leaving the next blind comes, because I have to catch a bus home. I pick up AA in a straddled pot. I open for €3 and get a call from the tightest player on the table. My friend shoves €75 and I call. The other guy folds. My friend flips(58s). So we have a ~700bb pot with AA vs 58s. I wanted to run it twice(this is a huge amount of money for me). He declined and said I could take the pot and fold or run it once. I eventually called(Obviously it should be instasnap but it was scared money; I had never planned on sitting so deep in the game.) The aces held so I finished the night with ~€170.

Anyway the mood turned pretty bad. Everyone was tense and it was time for me to leave anyway. My friend has been given problem gambling booklets by his parents before(although they are quite religious), and this was the first time I've thought he may actually have a problem. I don't feel right about taking money off a degen(well, one I'm friends with at least) , although he has made a lot more than that sucking out on me before( QQ vs T9o last week in a 400bb pot). He has a poker notebook and is still up €900 this year. His money is not rent/food money though, he lives at home, is in college and has a well paid part time job. My point is, our friendship is not worth losing over a stupid poker game and I'm wondering if I shouldn't play there again. I was talking to my other buddy on the way home and he seemed to think it won't have any bearing on us being friends and it was just poker. The guy is really stubborn(even justifying his play saying I would have folded KK[I might have tbh]. Should I feel bad or just forget about it. Thoughts???

Cliffs

Poker with friends
Massive 700bb pot
Friend may be degen.
Should a home game involve such large amount of money?
Should I play there again?

If you feel it causing frustrations between your friends then no. Most definitely a no if your friend is potentially a gambling addict. If you feel your friend has a habbit, which by what you say is likely then you should stop playing with him.

If you feel bad taking his money like you said, again you shoulden't be playing. Poker is about having fun and when you add money to it and you're playing with scared money like you along with the fact your friend has an issue with gambling then you should either completely drop the stakes or play for fun.

The last thing you want, is to be playing with scared money because it will put a strain on your friendship no doubt about that and it really isn't worth it, is it? If you fancy playing for stakes then go to a casino where you won't feel bad taking the money or upsetting someone.

The only time I'd play for real money with friends and family is if the money was fun money and not likely to be emotionally effected by losing sums which you say makes you feel uncomfortable, this takes out all the fun.

Playing with scared money at the best of times vs unknowns is hard enough and bad enough, don't let it ruin things by doing it with friends and family, trust me - it isn't worth it from a financial point or view or friends point of view.

I did something similar when I was younger, except it was blackjack and we was drunk. We all lost money to each other then it got out of hand where me and a friend did a "bet" whoever won the next blackjack won either of our cars. Girlfriends and friends around were not happy at the time, we shook hands the stupid deal was done. I won, he looked drained and ill. I didn't of course take the car but the emotionally strain at the time with alcohol inside us, I demanded the car and we fell out for a while. Anyway, he backed out basically and after sleeping it off and some weeks later we both realised we was being stupid and vowed never to play money games together. Thankfully we sorted things out and have never gambled together again.

My experience is that stakes above an amount that gives the winner bragging rights are a perilous thing in a game with friends and family. I played a game with co-workers years back that got out of hand (progresive pot type of game) and though I won a fair amount of money the relationship with a co-worker that I really did like was never quite the same and no amount of offering to return funds etc. would fix it. Never did it again didn't seem worth it. Just my opinion.

If you can't play comfortably then you're in the wrong game--under any circumstances. Don't play.

But, AA vs 85s...take the suckers money. Especially after he tries to call you out and make you fold it when the cards are shown. At that point poker is war imo.

It's a douche move. If it's a friendly game like you described everyone needs to play nice and not see their friends as ATMs. 1 player can ruin it and it looks like he did. even if you're willing to drop 5x what people are buying, it's a friends game, and it's a dick move.

well i think you have to be conscious of anyone that might have a gambling issue as others pointed out

and if you can set the stakes, so that they are affordable for the person in your group with the tightest budget

i think tourney poker is a good way to prevent things becoming too expensive ... our group did have someone that was less skilled and lost week after week, which was tough, but ultimately their game improved and they started winning

maybe mix the stakes up ... have the BIG game early or late for just those comfortable

i know one of our players liked bounties ... even if they didnt win they might get a bounty, so they got something back

our group is mostly for fun, but occasionally the player winning the most might stake somebody having a rough nite

keep it fun

and don't feel bad ... if you were getting beat, then the others probably wouldn't be losing too much sleep over it

TBH these are not life changing sums of money and these stakes really cant be considered "big".

Whenever we have a home game here, we play sitngo's and keep the buy-in reasonable. I don't mind playing high stakes or ring games, but this way there's a set buy and everyone gets the same size stack for the night. We have a re-buy until the end of the 5th level. Never had any problems.

FWIW that night I'd try to upsell how much luck I had getting those aces and winning those pots. I do this to keep my image fishier and to keep the money rolling in (especially at the casino). But in this case you could use it do defuse a little of the tension.

You did win the money fair and square. But if it's costing you friendships it probably isn't worth it. You could decline playing with them again, or maybe just buy in short so the sums you win off them aren't as large, while still giving you an "in" to be there and hang out/chat/etc.

KoRnholio said:

FWIW that night I'd try to upsell how much luck I had getting those aces and winning those pots. I do this to keep my image fishier and to keep the money rolling in (especially at the casino). But in this case you could use it do defuse a little of the tension.

You did win the money fair and square. But if it's costing you friendships it probably isn't worth it. You could decline playing with them again, or maybe just buy in short so the sums you win off them aren't as large, while still giving you an "in" to be there and hang out/chat/etc.

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ha, yeah i liked using this ploy in small stakes ring games on PS ... "the old, sorry guys, just catching cards like crazy 2nite" ... i had a good run playing .02/.05, but man, it turned around on me in a hurry ... went back to SnGs and satellites to MTTs ... i really felt like they had profiled me ... enough players knew my style of play or used a tool and i didnt do a good enough job of mixing it up!, but lesson learned

i will never play with friends for stakes that they can't afford to lose . once I was playing bi weekly with some coworker buddies the job payed well but we did keep the buy in reasonable( sng style for sure) until the one week that we all got a union agreement signing bonus. these guys really wanted to gamble it up, play ring style and the bonus was nothing to laugh at. anyway I was leery of it but I decided if I was tilting I would cut out after about half my bonus was gone. It didn't turn out that way and I ended up being ahead considerably late into the game. one guy was determined to stack me to the point where the other guys kept trying to get him to quit. i ended up quitting because the tension was ridiculous. anyway the next day i get a call from his wife and she is balling about how they needed the money for bills and such and i just gave it to her. the next day at work he flips out on me for giving it to her in front of everyone. I'm like dude I was pretty happy to not say anything why didn't you just shut up about it. anyway long story short our working and personal relationship was never the same and i vowed to only play friends for smaller stakes and now i just throw winning hands in the muck and stay even by the end of the night. not worth the hassle

an amount should be agredd beforehand, everyone play at their comfortable level, we all have friends who may have a gambling problem and we should be aware of them and look out for them.

Heh, depends on what you mean by meaningful stakes. A few years back, just before the online poker boom, 7/8 of us would get beer and go play poker all night after we got paid on a Friday. I mean everyone's weeks wages.

I think I lost it once, several lost it 4/5 weeks on the trot and were begging all week. Had to stop the game though, considering my Dad passed away and I became the boss. It was great though taking $500 back off a guy you just gave it to All 5 card draw, still play occasionally with the same crew for tiny money in comparison, holdem will do that to people.

In college I had 2 groups of friends. The ones I hung out with and the ones I played poker with. I really liked that arrangment because between poker players IMO there is almost another set of rules and you dont have to feel bad for taking money. It more honest and tough relationship. If I win $100 off of a poker buddy cause I took a chance so be it and vs versa, but if it is my personal friend I feel bad because I know what this means to him ect.

If you do play with non-poker friends it is important that you keep the game civil and friendly. Also stakes should be low enough so that no hurt if you win or loose but high enough to play serious. Also, if I had a friend who played in a friendly game by raising 58s I would not play with him or I would not be his personal friend and keep only as poker friend (you dont play friendly games that way). I do currently play with my brother and some friends and we play low stakes $10 and just have fun. Poker with friends that is what it should be about, not making $.

My advise is not to play with them again or if you do, demand that stakes are lower and/or change to limit if they are your friends outside of poker. A good way of doing this too is to change to tourny so if you bust out with 58s you are done for the night.

If these friends are only really your poker buddies then play poker and dont feel bad taking their money.

It's a douche move. If it's a friendly game like you described everyone needs to play nice and not see their friends as ATMs. 1 player can ruin it and it looks like he did. even if you're willing to drop 5x what people are buying, it's a friends game, and it's a dick move.

its tough but he needs to learn- if it happened to me id say er look what do you expect i got aces. and fair play with the run twice to give him a shot...

hawtshawt420 said:

It's a douche move. If it's a friendly game like you described everyone needs to play nice and not see their friends as ATMs. 1 player can ruin it and it looks like he did. even if you're willing to drop 5x what people are buying, it's a friends game, and it's a dick move.

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Kanivision said:

It's a douche move. If it's a friendly game like you described everyone needs to play nice and not see their friends as ATMs. 1 player can ruin it and it looks like he did. even if you're willing to drop 5x what people are buying, it's a friends game, and it's a dick move.

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deja vu

I prefer to play with strangers. My friends know me too well and know if I am bluffing.

if he were a losing player i might feel guilty ...but hes up 900 and he tried to push you off a pot...are you a winner there? sounds like you are tight and hes trying to take advantage of you..is that why you dont want to play?

Poker between Friends is suppose to be about fun. If your friend has a problem you need to help him, because that is what friends are for. If there is a next time, play for lower stakes and if they don't then say ' Thank You ' and walk away. You don't want to lose a friend over something as stupid as an poker game...........Just my opinion....