Should i have to show my hand if i called someones river bet and then they muck?

blkmoney12

blkmoney12

Rock Star
Bronze Level
Joined
Jan 18, 2012
Total posts
312
Awards
1
Chips
119
I was playing in the pub league tournament yesterday. I was in the small blind with Q-8 the binds were 100-200. The flop went Q-K-2 It gets checked around on the turn the 5 hit I check middle position bets 600 folds around too me and I call. The last card was an A I checked the guy bets out 1500 chips. I think about it for two minutes before I decide too call. When I call him he decided too muck his hand I was about ready too muck mine before the one who runs the turn tournament told me I had too show a winning hand and I did but I thought it was not fair to do so since hi called his river bet and he mucked his hand what do u think about that?
 
Flayst

Flayst

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 17, 2014
Total posts
289
Chips
0
You could look at this both ways, but in the end it is the house rules. If the tournament director says you must show a winning hand when a river bet gets called, "dem's da breaks" as they say.

Personally I would lean towards your side of things - if he voluntarily mucked his cards, no matter the circumstances, he is out and you being the one player left in the hand can take the pot. But again, the house rules rule!
 
Jillychemung

Jillychemung

Stacks & Stacks
Loyaler
Joined
Feb 7, 2008
Total posts
8,250
Awards
1
Chips
124
You will not find this situation explicitly covered in the TDA rules and Robert's Rules of Poker has this to say about The Showdown
'A player must show all cards in the hand face-up on the table to win any part of the pot.'
Now the technicalities are that once you call the bet, you have crossed the threshold into 'The Showdown'.

So what to do in this situation has 2 possibilities, each of them on equal standing depending on what 'rule' a TD wishes to choose to use. You cannot fault a TD for ruling it either way.
 
or3o1990

or3o1990

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Mar 2, 2014
Total posts
1,060
Chips
0
I've wondered about this before myself.. I don't think it's fair that the raiser doesn't have to show the bluff. I agree with the OP, if you fold your cards then you're out of the hand and likewise you can't win the pot.. It should be that they both have to show or both don't.

What happens then if the raiser thinks he's beat and mucks and the other player shows a worse hand?

It sounds unlikely but I was in a similar situation where I had two pair my single opponent had a better two pair and a fourth heart fell on the river. Now I was out of position but when I checked and he went all in I called. Only because I had watched this guy bust out of this particular qualifier 3 times in like 30 minutes and he was so aggressive I assumed he would try to push me off of the hand regardless, so I went with it. And when I called he immediately said, "You're good." Assuming I had the flush. Now this was my first time playing a live qualifier and I wasn't very comfortable so I just turned them over and he was very surprised. But what if I argued that he verbally folded? I'm not saying that I would win that one but I would certainly have a valid argument..

But in the end the house rules..
 
naruto_miu

naruto_miu

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jul 31, 2007
Total posts
12,123
Awards
5
Chips
1
Once something gets mucked It shouldn't have to be shown but I guess since It was house rules (their rules apply), I've played in casino tourneys where that rule has never been enforced because It was mucked and that's the rules for that casino but every place dictates It's own rules
 
VGShaa

VGShaa

Legend
Bronze Level
Joined
Jan 5, 2015
Total posts
1,368
Awards
8
Chips
52
I agree that's not fair, he mucked, you remained the only player in the hand, why would talk show wining hand - do not see the point. Rules are rules of poker at home.
 
rock0001

rock0001

Legend
Bronze Level
Joined
Oct 23, 2013
Total posts
1,098
Awards
19
Chips
62
i dont understand why you were ready to muck your hand when you called his bet i mean why would you call someones bet if you know you are going to lose the hand?
if you were the first one to act i think you should show your hand first, however if this players automatically mucks, then i guess the pot is yours and you dont need to show anything. He should have waited to saw your hand first and then mucked without showing anything however he didnt do that, so you have the right to win the hand without showing your cards.
 
Last edited:
S

SnowedIn

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Mar 25, 2015
Total posts
188
Chips
0
Believe in a tournament you have to show both cards of the winning hand but not in cash games.
 
Havik

Havik

Visionary
Bronze Level
Joined
Feb 26, 2015
Total posts
714
Awards
6
Chips
2
I would say no. showing your card could give another play knowledge about you play style and it would be unfair since he also mucked his hand
 
R

rugby0

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Feb 22, 2008
Total posts
599
Chips
0
In kansas city casinos you would not have to show your hand. He was out of the hand.
 
teepack

teepack

Legend
Bronze Level
Joined
Mar 5, 2014
Total posts
2,317
Awards
1
Chips
14
I don't think it's unfair in any way. How were you harmed by being forced to show your cards?
 
OzExorcist

OzExorcist

Broomcorn's uncle
Bronze Level
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Total posts
8,586
Awards
1
Chips
1
It's 100% standard that you have to show all of your cards to claim any part of the pot, as a measure to discourage cheating and collusion.

Here's the link to Robert's Rules of Poker that cover it: http://www.homepokertourney.com/roberts-rules-of-poker.htm#THE_SHOWDOWN

For those saying it's not fair that villain didn't have to show his hand, remember that it's a hand that's gone to showdown so anyone who was dealt in has the right to see villain's cards if they request it. Just don't be a douche and abuse that privilege.
 
arizoney

arizoney

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 16, 2010
Total posts
386
Awards
1
Chips
1
yup a mucked hand is a fold and no longer in play and holding your cards they are still in play the way it looks to me. but the director has the last word whether its correct or not the house rules. you might take the time to educate the pub's tournament director with rules around the poker community so that his rulings are fair for all players.
 
OzExorcist

OzExorcist

Broomcorn's uncle
Bronze Level
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Total posts
8,586
Awards
1
Chips
1
yup a mucked hand is a fold and no longer in play and holding your cards they are still in play the way it looks to me. but the director has the last word whether its correct or not the house rules. you might take the time to educate the pub's tournament director with rules around the poker community so that his rulings are fair for all players.

...except the director was correct in this case, and the ruling was fair for all players.

There was no argument that OP won the hand - but he 100% has to show both cards to claim his winnings, since the hand went to showdown.
 
Debi

Debi

Forum Admin
Administrator
Joined
Oct 13, 2006
Total posts
74,638
Awards
20
Chips
1,331
I think everywhere I have ever played requires you to show the winning hand to take the pot.
 
R

Robadob925

Rising Star
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 9, 2013
Total posts
14
Chips
0
Ya if your the winner you deff need to show but I think you should always be able to muck otherwise
 
F

freestocks

Legend
Bronze Level
Joined
Feb 24, 2013
Total posts
2,351
Chips
0
I think, since you called, you could demand to see your opponent's mucked cards.
 
H

hffjd2000

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 6, 2014
Total posts
2,329
Chips
0
You will not get paid if you will not show your hand. I believe thats the standard house rule.

He mucked surely means he surrendered but still you have to show your hand for you to take the pot.
 
Becky Eubanks

Becky Eubanks

Legend
Loyaler
Joined
Mar 26, 2015
Total posts
5,001
Awards
39
Chips
255
I agree it is whatever the house rules state but sometimes it doesn't come up until it happens.
 
WhereDidMyEVGo

WhereDidMyEVGo

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Jul 20, 2014
Total posts
547
Chips
0
I agree it is whatever the house rules state but sometimes it doesn't come up until it happens.

It is indeed whatever the house rules but like the others have said this isn't so much a house rules thing as it is a standard everywhere thing.
 
limpnfold88

limpnfold88

Visionary
Platinum Level
Joined
Feb 7, 2015
Total posts
839
Chips
0
I was playing in the pub league tournament yesterday. I was in the small blind with Q-8 the binds were 100-200. The flop went Q-K-2 It gets checked around on the turn the 5 hit I check middle position bets 600 folds around too me and I call. The last card was an A I checked the guy bets out 1500 chips. I think about it for two minutes before I decide too call. When I call him he decided too muck his hand I was about ready too muck mine before the one who runs the turn tournament told me I had too show a winning hand and I did but I thought it was not fair to do so since hi called his river bet and he mucked his hand what do u think about that?

Different rooms have different rules. I personally think you shouldn't have to, but at the casino i play at, the winning hand has to be shown if there is a showdown, in order to prevent collusion. If you've ever watched the EPT on youtube, if the first player mucks the winner can muck also. So it really depends on where you play.
 
M

majyuk

Rising Star
Bronze Level
Joined
Apr 19, 2015
Total posts
6
Chips
0
It's all down to house rules so I wouldnt worry about it to much.
 
Starting Hands - Poker Hand Nicknames Rankings - Poker Hands
Top