Seeing Opponents Cards

I wasn't sure of the proper poker protocol or etiquette in this situation, but I was playing in a $220 tournament at The Bellagio last summer and the older gentleman to my left was next to act. As I looked over at him he picked up his cards without even the slightest attempt to cup or hide his cards and they were plainly visible to me. I looked away right away, though it was clear what his cards were. He continued throughout the game picking up his cards in the same manner, even though I did make mention that he should try to protect his cards.
Please know that I never leaned back to try to view his cards or anything that would be construed as "cheating", but my question, I guess is since this gentleman decided to continually show his cards in such a manner, should I continue to look over at them or do I do the "right" thing and avert my eyes every time it was his turn to act. I try to read tells at times and to not be able to even look at my opponent doesn't seem right for me either. Is poker like golf or every other sport where you try to get every advantage you can.

Don't look over at him with the intention of seeing his cards look with the intention of reading him when he looks down. If he doesn't protect his cards and you accidentally see something its 100% his fault and don't feel bad using this information in a hand.

That was my thoughts, too, Mike. I tried to convey that I wasn't looking over at him with the intent to see his cards, but I was getting uncomfortable (maybe that was his plan all along, maybe he wanted me to see his bad cards, setting me up for a great bluff when he protected his cards!!) ;-) Anyway, the person sitting across from me noticed one time and I just shrugged......he asked "did you get a good look?". I said "yeah, I guess so" . Oh well......thanks for your reply, Mike.

It's his job to protect his cards. The best way to pick up tells is to see what he's holding and then how he acts. You might be sitting on the opposite side of the table from him later on. When ever I'm sitting next to this type of player I look everytime. I would never tell a player he's showing me his/her cards.

If a pitcher is tipping his curveball would a hitter ever tell him? It's a game and those cards are the game pieces. He's a playing poorly and deserves to be crushed

i agree with everyone he needs to protect his hand but u shouldnt look either it kills the integrity of the game

I would quite happily and without shame take a look at his cards every hand, hopefully getting all of his chips off him when the perfect opportunity arose, sending that old ****er home, goodnight grandpa

You will get every variety of answer to this from "Its cheating, dont look" to "Use the info, bro!!! Its poker to win money, and advantage is a good one"

I think a lot of "I wont look" players will actually look. A selected few will actually not.

It IS poker, and if he is playing bad, well, its our job to exploit weakness, and whether he telegraphs his play with tells, or shows his cards, you take the info you have and use it. The comment on, see what he has and how he plays it is a great one if this is a guy you may play again!!

You need to follow your own conscience here. If it was me, it would depend on my take on him. Is he a rich old fella with money to burn, or is he trying to get money for his grandsons bail? Of course you cant know, but certain things can be more apparent. As well, how is he as a person? Is he an arrogant dick? Look, and look again. Is he an amateur, who seems to be a nice but clueless guy? Find a moment and let him know he needs to pay attention to not show his cards. Since you mentioned having done that, you have done all you can do.

Maybe he likes you and wants you to take his money????

Welcome to the forum...less attitude.

There's nothing wrong with his response lol, take that old man to value town and leave him there, you get to feel like potripper for the day

I think the same point can be made without the superflous 'old f*****' comment. That's just ignorance.

Tell them once, tell them twice, then if they still do it use the info to your advantage.


Yes there was, not all grandpa's are OLD, there are some young ****er's that are grandpa's

A little brashness isn't all bad. Attitude has entertainment value. He probably likes to raise raise and reraise 3,4, and 5 hands in a row. I like the killer instinct. Hook that fish and gut'em when he hits the deck

It's a players responsibility to protect their cards. You even mentioned to him to cover his cards up, and he continued doing what he was doing. It's his own fault. You did nothing wrong. Although, I won't actively try to look at another players cards, but if he is showing them, I'm going to look.

I class 50 as old, and most grandparents are 50+,, so I'm taking a guess and sticking with the old comment

watch that 50=old shit there young un...........

You tried warning him.....it may of been his attempt to MAKE you feel uncomfortable at the table...maybe speaker to the dealer might have helped here....or floor person?

Nice guys finish last. It's not just a saying. (I should know... but that's another story.)

If you openly tell him that you can see his cards, and he keeps doing it - fair game, if you ask me. It hardly qualifies as cheating - something I do not condone.

This is a good question, I never feel comfortable in that situation. I personally don't look because it messes up my play. I feel it's their responsibility to cover their cards and I really hate saying something to either the player or the dealer, should I say something or just not look?

I have been in this situation as well
If they don't realize they are showing their cards, politely tell them.
Maybe they are really new to live play, maybe they just are nervous at a live table.
If you let them know and they continue to do it then if you happen to see their cards it isn't your fault.

The best answer I have heard to this often asked questioned went something like this.

After the hand is over and before the next is dealt, lean into the player (so that the rest of the table is not in on it) and tell him flat out- not that you can see his cards - but that HE IS SHOWING HIS CARDS to you when he looks at them. Then tell him you will not mention it again and the rest is up to him. Make him responsible for it, not you.

SIDE TRACK STORY
Had this happen at a bar game where we rotated the deal - there was one guy across from me that I could see every card he peeled off the deck. I knew everyone's hand, I announced MISDEAL and of course this halted the action and no one could figure out what happened. I went around the table, starting to the left of the dealer, pointing at people and saying, "K of Spades - 6 of Clubs - A of Hearts - etc..." And told everyone I knew what their cards where. The dealer was pissed and so were his two buddies (Hmmmmmmm.....) like I was the bad guy - I said, "Fine, I won't bring it up again, but I will be looking." He took more care after that.

But if the guy next to me doesn't take more care after I have warned him - I will look and I will use it.

its an integrity issue when u look to TRY to see his cards or in some way cheat.....but if your looking at you opp. and hes pretty much exposing his hand its not your fault .....its like picking up a tell.....he should be aware of what hes doing as all poker players should have keeping their cards out of view of other players should be their #1 concern, but if hes gonna clearly expose his hand for you and anyone else to see then by all means use it to your advantage, thats the second thing all poker players are trying to do pick up a players weakness and exploit it, hes just making it real easy so by no means should YOU feel bad, but HE shouldnt be that stupid

Anything in plain view can be and should be used to your advantage. It is indeed the player's obligation to protect his cards. If the cards are in plain view then he would be responsible. The opposite might be asked of someone who hides his face with sunglasses or a hood while playing to protect against any information his facial expressions would convey. There does not seem to be any guilt associated with this. If you are playing with your friends for fun, it is one thing, but if you are playing in public against essentially strangers, you are entitled to use all the information available, including the cards they unintentionally show you.

I've heard people say that it is the players responsibility to cover up/take care of their own cards, so if they show them it is their own fault. I play a lot of free bar poker, or small cash games with friends... so I will tell someone they are showing me their cards, but usually it is a friend/acquaintance, or someone you can tell has no clue about poker since it's a free bar league. Sometimes people are just at the bar and when they learn it is free poker, so they want to play, even though they don't know what a SB/BB is lol. So most of the time I feel obligated to inform them at least once, especially if you can tell they are a beginner and clueless to begin with.. I mean the inexperienced payers tend to lose pretty quickly anyway.
I've never had this problem at an actual card room though, just more at the free poker level.

This.

I think you've done every thing right. Letting him know to hide his cards better is something I would do, but a lot of players wouldn't even do that.

Commendable for your efforts to be fair. Otherwise, I agree with the crowd in that If he's gonna inadvertantly give you information, use it.

Gl in the future.
Yota

Thanks to all the responders. Didn't think it would get this much interest, but it is something that we may all face at sometime. I guess the consensus is this:
1) It's up to the players to protect their cards
2) Take advantage of everything the other players give you.

BUT, curiously it's kind of split on whether you should say something to the player or not. Some (like Mikeg and Tusabes) say (paraphrasing here)......"Don't tell him and take him down" others (Like Mortis, Leo50, yotalover and many others) say to mention it one time and if he continues it's on him and continue to take the advantage he gives you. I do like MediaBlitz's response (and those who agree with him) regarding quietly telling him so that nobody else overhears, then it's "fair game" from then on.
The one thing I really don't believe are those few that say they wouldn't look at all..........it's almost as you couldn't help but NOT look. For those that wouldn't look, if you accidently saw your opponents cards, would you take the high road like MediaBlitz did and either declare a "misdeal" or eliminate yourself from the hand??
Great responses guys and now I don't feel so bad. Even knowing that the person across from me made a comment about getting a good look (jealous, maybe??) Thanks everyone!!

And that's why you need to wear sunglasses - DOH!!!

One of the first bar tournaments I played in, the guy next to me was always showing his cards, and I turned my head a few times.. then my neck started to ache from turning so much, and well, I just stopped turning my head and ended up knocking him out, lol.

My instinct would be to say that anyone who isn't aware enough to cover their business, isn't going to trouble me at the table. My eyes light up if I ever see anyone who lifts their cards off the baize.

Like most peeps have said, I would mention it once but then feel fine about using any info I gleaned in the future, without deliberately trying to crane.

Of course, in multi-way pots, having such a huge edge over one player can cause you to over-play your hand against the other(s), and land you in trouble.

A friend of mine had this issue at a tourney once and bled a third of his stack trying to stay in three or four-way pots with sir showalot. Later, he was joined by the same guy at a different table, and bust him easily from the seat opposite.

In a case like that I will generally warn the player once and thats all...if he continues to do it thats his loss...I'm not going to intentionally try and look every hand but if I happen to see it every 5 hands or whatever then thats that...I cannot say I didn't let him know. One thing I always do and have been called just about every name in the book by my friends for doing this is that if anyone asks "did anyone see that?" if a card sort of tilts or flips as it is dealt my answer is always no...the reason being that the dealer should void a card every time that happens and many dealers will automatically turn the card in those cases without even asking anyone which is what should be done...if they are not smart enough to do their job correctly I'm not going to say anything, not to mention the player can also request another card if he or she is relatively confident someone did see the card....furthermore, rarely knowing one card any particular player is holding is going to help you anyhow since the odds of getting involved in a big pot with any particular guy at the table where the knowledge will provide you any edge is remote.

You cant be responsible for his poker actions, if you have been tring to tell him that he is showing his cards, to no avail, then do what you have to do.

I've had two incidents that are similar to this.

The first one was also the very first time I'd ever played holdem. On my opening hand I did what this old fellow was doing, picked my cards up and looked at them. The guy next to me said: "I can see your cards." Then he showed me how to look at them properly by demonstrating with his own cards. I appreciated that and never made that mistake again.

The next time was in a limit game when I was sitting next to a shark who talked on his cellphone during the entire time I was there. (This was a small cardroom at a local fair and they had no electronic equipment.) I'm pretty sure that he was leaning back to see my cards because, when I flopped two pair with my A9 suited and bet hard, he kept reraising me until the very end, finally making a small bet that left me with one $5 chip in my stack. He also had two pair with AQ. When I was out this scumbag said: "You're a very sympatico man, but you shouldn't be playing poker." I didn't mind losing but I did mind (1) being insulted by his final bet that left me with one useless nickel, (2) having him cheat.

What if you logged onto an online poker site one day & you could see the other player's cards? Would you tell them?

It's an interesting question but I genuinely think my first response would be - can they see mine too?

I hear what your saying about the guy not protecting his hand but thats 100% on him no need to feel at fault at all.The only thing you can do is play your hand and if that guy doesn't want to protect his hand than so be it.Its amazing how many times i read about players holding their cards to high though.