Rules, Decisions, and Floor Calls!

I didn't see anything in the forums regarding this subject, so i thought i'd start up a thread.
I'd like to hear your poker stories regarding weird decisions or floor calls, and I'd like to see open discussion about poker rules in general.
What's your story? Did you lose a bad beat due to a floor call? Do you disagree with certain rules? Let's hear it!
I'll start us with a question; do you agree with the 'first card' rule; moreover, that you must be seated before the first card is dealt to you or your hand is considered dead. Discuss.....

Not one single person wants to discuss the rules? Wow....

We have rules discussions fairly regularly - some situation comes up, someone makes a thread, it gets discussed. For example:

https://www.cardschat.com/forum/general-poker-13/misdeal-259044/
https://www.cardschat.com/forum/general-poker-13/unique-casino-dealer-error-255928/
https://www.cardschat.com/forum/general-poker-13/need-clarification-showing-hands-live-poker-252769/

I'm fine with the rule where you must be in your seat when your first card is dealt for you to have a live hand. There's gotta be a defined cutoff point that's probably as good as any. It's universally applied so it's fair. And it ensures that there's minimal disruption to the game (as opposed to, say, not killing the hand until it was the player's turn to act - that opens up all sorts of possibilities for the game to be delayed unnecessarily)

How about stupid angle shooting? It's so stupid and widely accepted as ok even though there are clear rules against it. Thoughts?

atlantafalcons0 said:

How about stupid angle shooting? It's so stupid and widely accepted as ok even though there are clear rules against it. Thoughts?

Click to expand...

Erm, please explain? What sort of angle shooting are you talking about? Examples?

I can't think of any forms that are widely accepted as OK...

OzExorcist said:

Erm, please explain? What sort of angle shooting are you talking about? Examples?

I can't think of any forms that are widely accepted as OK...

Click to expand...

Watch the last few wsop main events in full and you'll see many instances of angle shooting that is obviously against the rules but deemed legal. Shoving a large amount of chips but not releasing and pulling back to get a read on your opponent is what I'm talking about...

Watch this.

Yeah, I remember that one from back in 2008 and I think it was debated a fair bit - I don't know whether it was intended as an angle shoot or not.

There's an even more egregious example from High Stakes Poker, with Todd Brunson. I think it was Phil Laak he was in the hand against. Anywho, Brunson basically took the chips to call in his hand, held them out in the air in front of him and stared at Laak, then took his action (took the chips back and folded IIRC, but I can't be sure after all this time). In that case he was clearly looking at Laak to see what his reaction was.

In any case, I believe the outcome of both those cases was it was found that in many casinos at the time, particularly in Vegas, both those actions were perfectly legal because they didn't consider it action until the chips were released. In other casinos (like the LA-based ones that Laak was used to), it was forward motion that constituted action.

Despite that, as far as I'm aware those behaviours aren't generally accepted as being OK by the poker community as a whole. If they were, we'd never have heard about these incidents, because nobody would be kicking up a fuss about them...

Sunday they had a Superbowl squares promotion going on and the last drawing was at 10:55. They had an Aces cracked promotion going on starting at 11. Well the drawing took a little time because some squares were empty or whatever. Dealer starts dealing a hand , two people in the hand , Aces get cracked by a straight. I look down at my watch , its 11:02.

Aces cracked pays $200. The dealer tells the man that he does not get paid because the Superbowl squares drawing had not been completed yet. They call the floor and confirms what the dealer says. The man was so pissed that he got up and left.

My objection

Many tournaments require the nut hands to raise: when they have the final decision if they fold or simply check they are given a penalty of the big blind. I dont like this rule because pretty much only amateurs make this mistake, and its a honest mistake 99% of the time.

jjjones said:

Many tournaments require the nut hands to raise: when they have the final decision if they fold or simply check they are given a penalty of the big blind. I dont like this rule because pretty much only amateurs make this mistake, and its a honest mistake 99% of the time.

Click to expand...

That's another rule that I'm OK with because there's absolutely no good reason to ever check the nuts in position on the river - I agree that often it's done by amateurs who are making an honest mistake, but to my mind that's just an argument for giving TDs latitude in whether they impose a penalty or not. The rule itself serves an important purpose (preventing softplay / collusion) and should absolutely stand.

atlantafalcons0 said:

How about stupid angle shooting? It's so stupid and widely accepted as ok even though there are clear rules against it. Thoughts?

Click to expand...

i think the new TDA rule covering ettiquette can be used to prevent these types of behaviors, but i agree that it's difficult to enforce and prevent.

I do have really interesting stories of zoom tables. At least on limits of 0,01/0,02. I've entered 3 beting on the bottom with TK, 4 other players called. The flop is TKJ, the player on my left who's the first to talk, raises to 0,50 $, everyone fold . I thought wow, WTF would you have, that bet It's like 10 pots, it doesn't have any sence at all. I thought abou it like a few seconds, then I called. The turn is a Q. He checks with was rare for me, I check behind asuming he will re raise me If I raise on the turn. And the river card is another K, so we have KKTJ, withc gives a fill house and highest hand.
He goes all in with 1,50$ and obviously I called, he had T2.