Rigged: The AA test

#**386** 09-08-2008, 6:02 PM

They basically try to set up good hands together, if you get KK, you can be almost certain someone else has AA, and vice versa, it's to create action on the tables

#**387** 09-08-2008, 6:38 PM

i think we see a lot more good hands than we do in live games, because we play more online than live, but if the sites are doing this, it's just as wrong

Quote:

Originally Posted by daguksta

They basically try to set up good hands together, if you get KK, you can be almost certain someone else has AA, and vice versa, it's to create action on the tables

#**388** 09-08-2008, 6:42 PM

that must of been something to see, i'd keep that in my mind forever if i were you because that is RARE, LIVE or ONLINE, i've only seen it once myself online

Quote:

Originally Posted by nvr88

I'm too lazy to read thru this whole thing..........but..........yesterday I witnessed a royal flush beating 4 of a kind. IN PERSON REAL CARDS. I'm not too much of a math mind and would like to know the odds of this.
Flop K clubs 10 clubs 7 hearts
turn 10 hearts
River J Clubs

Pocket 10's lost too A Q clubs this has got to be almost like winning the Powerball as far a odds go.
AGAIN THIS WAS LIVE AND IN PERSON WITH REAL CARDS!!

#**389** 10-08-2008, 12:30 AM

THANKS A MILLION EVERYONE

ChuckT's last contribution put us over a million hands

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChuckTs

Site: Pokerstars
Number of ring hands: 150094
Dealt AA: 672
Expected: 679
I am dealt AA: 1 in 223 hands
Won: %91.2

FireWorks!!!

#**390** 10-08-2008, 2:48 AM

But, can you explain why my AA get's cracked 9/11 times and why your poker site clearly likes you more than mine likes me?

#**391** 10-08-2008, 5:50 PM

^^^^^er no, mine held up 3 out of 3 today, its how you play them determines a lot whether they lose or not, post-flop is key, if the board is scary.

#**392** 11-08-2008, 2:50 AM

I always get cracked with AA or KK. No matter what I do. Sometimes I dont want to polay them but I always do.

#**393** 11-08-2008, 3:57 AM

I do not know how you could not only not play AA but how you would not make a large raise. Where there are poker no-no's like playing the 2 7 off suite not playing the rockets has got to be equally as bad.

#**394** 11-08-2008, 6:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deadly Silent

I do not know how you could not only not play AA but how you would not make a large raise. Where there are poker no-no's like playing the 2 7 off suite not playing the rockets has got to be equally as bad.

whats wrong with 72os? its the perfect hand for running a bluff, and raising PF and hitting the flop hard, as its so disguised.

#**395** 11-08-2008, 8:18 AM

this might be good information, but it doesnt kill the theory that big hands are matched up against eachother often... it only kills the theory that you get big hands more often than you should. you need to check how often you have kings and someone else has aces (or something like that), but thats pretty tough because the odds are so low.

#**396** 12-08-2008, 5:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HartAttack3

Rigging, at least as everyone whines about it, is about a poker site giving you AA and someone else KK and making sure the KK wins. Other examples are you get AA hit a set of aces only to lose to a person playing j-10 suited and catching a str8 or a flush.

The absolute scandal had nothing to do with rigging in that sense. The only thing that happened in the absolute scandal was a player was able to see everyone elses hole cards. He had no control over what cards came and I dont believe in any way it was "rigged" unless you want to call that rigging which if you do then go ahead but that is not what the rigged discussion, or this thread, is about at all.

So either you dont know what your talkin about or your spinnin bro.

ok i was going through reading this and wow this is waay off topic with the original thread this is kinda more interesting lol but anyways u say u dont call that someone at a tble being able to see whole cards is not rigging ? ummm plz tell me its cheating then i think that would be both he is rigging into the system to see whole cards and that is cheating

#**397** 12-08-2008, 6:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mendozaline

I think you are making two mistakes here. One, I don't think it's a given that rigging would apply to ring games but not tourneys. Two, I don't believe that rigging would be to get more rake for the casino. In a way, though, that's just two different ways of saying the same thing.

For these two reasons, I think it would be a mistake to spend too much time studying AA and KK and QQ statistics. That's a little too obvious. Maybe JJ and AKo since they already have a love/hate relationship attached to them.

No, in my opinion it would make much more sense studying other card combinations. Pick one maybe that would normally be considered a hand you would fold, or something like that. See how often they win vs how often they should win.

Or another good one might be to study the community cards against a control say of the 21st to 25th cards in a million shuffles by a shuffling machine. As a corollary to this, what were the winning cards, and what is their expected frequency against actual frequency. This would be a good test, because it would force the issue. One or other of the sides would have to admit they were wrong. I would certainly admit I was wrong if this showed no significant difference.

Nothing is rigged. Studying AA and KK hands seems reasonable considering that many poker players value AA and KK and the best hands out there, thus allowing for more AIs. It's pretty clear there is no rigging. Plus rigging in a tourney makes no sense. No poker site wouldn't win nor lose from a tourney rigging. Doesn't make sense

#**398** 13-08-2008, 12:51 AM

Im surprised! I always thought Full TIlt had the most!

#**399** 13-08-2008, 1:52 AM

cool man this will be interesting....

#**400** 13-08-2008, 2:27 PM

"and the recent Absolute fiasco hasn't helped matters, never mind that what happen there actually had more to do with inexcusably loose security measures rather than actual RIGGING."

I'm more intrigued at this, Where do I find what happened? totally missed this, please tell more

#**401** 13-08-2008, 2:31 PM

AA or KK never 7 2 o/s 99% of the time j 4 the rest lol

#**402** 13-08-2008, 2:42 PM

We have all cracked Aces and Kings and we have all had them cracked against us. the problem is they aint the be all and end all. basicly three of a kind is better than a pair and there is a hell of a lot of hands better that them.

#**403** 15-08-2008, 2:18 AM

I would say that I will lose if going all in with AAs 90 % of the time.

I cant say that this is an exact per centage, but, I will lose most of the time with AAs.

angie

#**404** 15-08-2008, 2:22 AM

I have played in many games where there were pocket AAs, Pocket KKs, and pocket QQs or JJs.

That are the odds of three monster pocket pairs existing on the board.

And, what are the odds that it happens over and over again.

angie

I dont know if fixed is the correct word, but not sure it is not.

Seems, the computer program should be designed to deal the cards in a normal sequence. Similiar as in a live game.

However, if you ask the poker sites this question, they go into a long speel about computer programing and other confusing computer issues that I do not understard.

Altho, I am not sure that the word "fixed" is the correct term. I do believe that the computers are programed to speed up the game.

They, ( the poker site) sure dont want a game to last forever.

Problem being, I our government, (USA) would legalize on line poke, and regulate it accordly, we woud have all these problems solved. And, the games woud be fair for all players.

So, until Government takes the approprite action, we will continue to have these doubts.

angie

They do it very easily. Programing computer software.

For example, the slops in the brick and motar gaming houses have software to allow the player to win a certain amount of the time.

It is very simple for a computer programer to create software to allow any sequence of cards to be delt.

Another example, if a computer programer can create a software program to allow a space craft to fly several hundred thousands of miles to Mars and then have it land safely. A poker program would be childs play.

angie

#**405** 16-08-2008, 6:10 AM

its amazing how much math that goes into all these things, i just dont see a point to rig something considering the people they have supporting these sites such as the pros etc. Idk maybe its just me but ive had alot of bad beats online as apposed to the casino maybe its just bad play ;/

#**406** 17-08-2008, 8:45 AM

[quote=Tygran;677732]Minor correction, your odds are correct but the decimal is off a point in the percentage

.

Should be ~ .45% chance

Is that not 45/100 of one per cent? Not that I am a math genius or anything.

angie

#**407** 17-08-2008, 11:25 PM

We're all stuck with Murphy's Law. I don't know anybody who wins all the time, or loses all the time. You go on runs, win or lose. Just join a bunch of sites, and get the whole experience.

#**408** 19-08-2008, 3:47 PM

I hate AA at Fulltilt. Everybody with 66 is calling you (and is winning ). AA winning chance for me is 70%

#**409** 19-08-2008, 6:39 PM

for my part i win only 17 ones whit a pair of aces on 52 times when i play this . Most times a bad river ho give a straight or a fluhs to the other ones. Maybe it is not a good had for me
1463 hands i see 52AA 17won 35looses play at same time on PS , FTP & PKR

#**410** 19-08-2008, 7:48 PM

ARG why oh why lol

here is the HH too...
PokerStars Game #19737775202: Tournament #102283588, Freeroll Hold'em No Limit - Level II (15/30) - 2008/08/19 - 13:43:27 (ET)
Table '102283588 266' 9-max Seat #9 is the button
Seat 1: hernNN (1410 in chips)
Seat 2: DToss10 (1490 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 3: antour (1740 in chips)
Seat 4: rockdown (1620 in chips)
Seat 5: OttawaChris (790 in chips)
Seat 6: jamesflame23 (1600 in chips)
Seat 7: JSlingoP (2440 in chips)
Seat 8: AMARAK (2145 in chips)
Seat 9: laller30 (1765 in chips)
hernNN: posts small blind 15
DToss10: posts big blind 30
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to OttawaChris [Ad Ah]
antour: folds
rockdown: folds
OttawaChris: raises 90 to 120
jamesflame23: folds
JSlingoP: folds
AMARAK: calls 120
laller30: calls 120
hernNN: folds
DToss10: folds
*** FLOP *** [3d Jd 4c]
OttawaChris: bets 420
AMARAK: calls 420
laller30: folds
*** TURN *** [3d Jd 4c] [Ts]
OttawaChris: bets 250 and is all-in
AMARAK: calls 250
*** RIVER *** [3d Jd 4c Ts] 5♥
*** SHOW DOWN ***
OttawaChris: shows [Ad Ah] (a pair of Aces)
AMARAK: shows [Ac 2c] (a straight, Ace to Five)
AMARAK collected 1745 from pot
laila5 is connected
jamesflame23 said, "gross"
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 1745 | Rake 0
Board [3d Jd 4c Ts 5h]
Seat 1: hernNN (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 2: DToss10 (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 3: antour folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: rockdown folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: OttawaChris showed [Ad Ah] and lost with a pair of Aces
Seat 6: jamesflame23 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: JSlingoP folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: AMARAK showed [Ac 2c] and won (1745) with a straight, Ace to Five
Seat 9: laller30 (button) folded on the Flop

#**411** 19-08-2008, 8:00 PM

Does cheating happen in online poker? YES....but I have never seen anything to indicate its by the site. What happened at absoute was NOT the site cheating, it was an employee proving that it could be done. Most cheating happens via instant messanger. 3,4, 5 or even more friends will take 1 table in a ring game and trade notes on cards they have via IMs. Be wary of ring games with people in the same home town or seem to be very friendly with each other.

#**412** 19-08-2008, 8:35 PM

It happened to me at JETSET, thats why i will no longer play there

#**413** 20-08-2008, 1:20 AM

you guys are all great, all the tests, arguements, and theories. i always figured it wouldnt be rigged, its just buisness- and poker buisness is good, why ruin a good thing, i did believe they put out more good hands for a bigger rake, but that seems proven untrue...and my own theory, in my last year of many real life games...ive seen more crazy hands, bad beats, runner runners and river hits then i ever seen online...so, my theory, poker sux... and i love it like sooo many others.
SH!T HAPPENS especially in poker, dont cry to me when you lose...Im still crying myself from all the donks who still get me
thx again all, great post

#**414** 20-08-2008, 1:50 AM

67,126 hands at FTP
AA 303 times (right on expectation I believe)

#**415** 20-08-2008, 2:29 AM

I just got busted with pocket AAs.

I was in the SB and getting low on chips. Had an "M" of about 3 and everyone checked around to me, the SB.

Well, I had pocket 88s and decided to raise and force out the BB and get the blinds and antes.

Well, first I bet 1,000 and then after the flop, went all in.

BB was sitting on pocket AAs. Then another A on 4th street and a K on the river. Giving him Acess full of KKs.

Did I ever pick a bad time to push.

#**416** 20-08-2008, 5:32 PM

I will make one last comment on this, then I am going to let this dog lie. I have gotten my AA beat many times, I have cleaned up with them many times and all in all, I would still rather see that AA when I look at my cards than any other 2 cards. Here is one last thought. with all the "all in" donkys hanging out at tables these days (Dear God yes, they have left the freerolls and migrated to ring games) Why would anysite NEED to generate larger pots? Just go to the lits of cash table and look at the avg. pot sizes.

#**417** 21-08-2008, 1:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WVHillbilly

67,126 hands at Full Tilt Poker
AA 303 times (right on expectation I believe)

Wit all the noise about whether OLP is rigged I seem to have missed this contribution from one of the few remaining members who remember that this is a study we're conducting, not a bull shit session. I'll up date this tonight ofr tomorrow Hillbilly.

Thanks

#**418** 21-08-2008, 6:02 PM

this a very hard poker room to get in to any one else have trouble

#**419** 21-08-2008, 6:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Four Dogs

Wit all the noise about whether OLP is rigged I seem to have missed this contribution from one of the few remaining members who remember that this is a study we're conducting, not a bull shit session. I'll up date this tonight ofr tomorrow Hillbilly.

Thanks

Just my attempt to right the ship.

#**420** 21-08-2008, 9:15 PM

"Is it a reasonable thing, I ask you, for a grown man to run about and hit a ball? Poker's the only game fit for a grown man. Then, your hand is against every man's, and every man's is against yours. Teamwork? Who ever made a fortune by teamwork? There's only one way to make a fortune, and that's to down the fellow who's up against you." - W. Somerset Maugham

Love the Thread.......Great respones too.........At the end of the day however, even if the statistics are proved to be a little off.....everyone is still in the same boat......you have to play your cards in the belief you can win the hand.


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