To Rebuy or not to Rebuy

I talked to Phil H once and asked him about the rebuy. He doesnt like it. If he is in the tournament he might rebuy once. I like to get in and if the guarantee is big enough and play without rebuying. THis takes lots of focus during the first hour as people are just slamming away knowing they can rebuy in. Ive come in the money several times this way. But a semi pro I know insists that you take advantage of the rebuy and add on. WHat do you think?

Are you really serious? If you are going to bother entering a rebuy/addon tourney, you absolutely have to take advantage of the 1st rebuy and addon imo. Usually you can rebuy once, so if it is 1500 starting chips, you can double to 3000 right at the begining. Then the addon will add 2000 chips. If you are amazingly up and have 30 or 40 thousand chips dont worry about it, but if you are anywhere near the average you gotta do it. Otherwise why are you even entering a rebuy because you are putting yourself at a major disadvantage. This is not to say that I think that you should play super loose like alot of people do. In fact I play even tighter, but I usually double up on the maniacs 3 or 4 times before the addon and they disappear slightly thereafter. I almost never rebuy from losing all of my chips, but I always always take advantage of whatever chips that I am allowed to addon. I figure that a rebuy tourney will usually cost me 3x the buy-in. So a $3 rebuy will cost me at least 9 bucks...

I usually rebuy multiple times as im quite suicidal, it leads the table to get more loose, and eventually you get 2-3 people all in every hand lol.

Sometimes I rebuy 8 times and go busto. Others, I rebuy maybe only 3 times and build up a massive stack because the table is on an all-in frenzy.

Rebuying is very much needed if you hope to accumulate chips within the 1 hour period, its just stupid to play in a rebuy if you dont wish to use the rebuy option.

I already told you Phil Hellmuth doesnt like to take the rebuy option. He might every once in a while but not regularly. And he is pretty succesful dont you agree. Why are you asking me if Im serious? No Im just posting cause I am cute. What an idiotic response. I'm asking for opinions. If I am up 20K in the first hour I am not going to spend the original bet to add on 1500. Thats me. I also am not going to keep adding on in the first hour more than once so I can play like a maniac. I am asking for your take on this. Not on the supreme truth of a $3 rebuy. Would you do it for $300? I seen the GRINDER rebuy as many times as he could on a $300 rebuy calling all ins with anything. I dont like this either. Please lets not make this into a "I know more than you" kind of thing. There are different approaches.

S L O W L Y... Why play a rebuy, if you are not going to rebuy/addon? Show me where Phil says that, then look at his context... It makes no sense at all, none, zero, to play a rebuy tourney and then not rebuy/addon for the relatively cheap price. If you cant afford to rebuy... DONT PLAY THE REBUY! I still have a hard time believing that you are asking this, then you say its an idiotic response...
Well I did say that if you were up 20,000 chips, that it didnt make sense to addon 2,000... so you are correct, as was already said...
As to the $300 rebuy... yeah I would. If you cannot afford at least $900 and probably closer to $1500, you have no business playing in a $300 rebuy. There are other tournaments that are not rebuys for $300, so it makes no sense to play a rebuy instead of a freezeout.
Your post sounds rather conceded, like you are asking a question that you think you already know the answer to. The problem is that you will be hard up to find anyone to agree with your view... That is why I ask if it is serious. I cant see any pro opting out of rebuying in any tourney that they just busted out of, given the chance...

I played in todays $3.30 rebuy and this guy at my table rebought 22 times in the first hour, $66 dollars he spent. He went all in every single hand, and at one point every person at the table was in the top 200 in chips in the tournament out of 3000 because we were all taking his money. With about 10 minutes left to go in the rebuy session he won a big pot and then another big pot, about 20 minutes after the rebuy session was over he had 50K in chips and was like 4th out of 2500-some people. He said if you want to win you have to play like this.

Well I personally dont like that type of play for myself, but it works for some people. In rebuys you see these super huge stacks that you would never see in a regular freezeout. That is the benefit I guess, because some people really do well.

i think like this guy it works sometimes and u put urself into a great position to make a deep run and sometimes u end up losing 20 rebuys, thats how it works in rebuyland

Really pantin? All-in every single hand?

I'm lacking the math skills to understand the logic there.

I have heard of a similar story where Daniel Negreanu re bought in a WSOP tourney 60+ times. Not sure if this is fact or legend though. The reasoning behind this approach to a rebuy tourney is that someone who believes they have the best of it against all the other players on their table can flood the table with money. They do this with the intent of then outplaying the table once the rebuy period is over and ammasing a very large stack. For this strategy to be effective though the Pro or whoever needs to know that his table will not be broken up before he has a chance to win back his chips.

I try to stay clear of these re-buy tournaments. they favor the less skilled player and award the same people that get knocked out in other, regular tournaments. I try to drive the scenic route around Donkeyville. GL2U

Wrong! They do not favor the less skilled, they just require a different approach and strategy than a freeze out does. They are just 2 different types of games just like limit hold'em is different to no limit, or cash games are different to tourneys, or stud is different to hold'em, or ....... well you get my point.

I play a few rebuys and hardly ever rebuy, and only add-on if I feel I'm playing good at the time. My strategy is to play tight from the start, only playing premium hands in the rebuy stage, or limping in cheaply(from SB/BB etc) to see a flop. I absolutely hate going all-in/calling an all-in unless I feel I'm way ahead/or have the nuts. I dont like coinflips. After the add-on stage, I loosen up a bit, but not too much, as most of the loose players in the rebuy stage are still playing loose. I don't always cash, who does? but when I do I make a nice ROI.
But you crazy-loose rebuyers carry on playing like that, with all your rebuys, it builds the money up nicely.

^^^ Correct. Even if these tournaments reward loose play early, after the break/addon, it all equals out. I guess they say that it all comes out in the wash. Well same thing with these tourneys. Even if the rebuy period allows people to play very loose and seems to reward bad behavior, once the break has passed and these people cannot rebuilt their stacks, eventually they will get knocked out, just the same as in any other tournament.

even better than that, some of them dont always switch back to normal mtt play after the add-on period is over, and still play like it's a rebuy.

I would say the overwhelming vast majority of professional players and serious online players would recommend an immediate rebuy at the beginning of a tournament and a mandatory addon. I would also say the majority believe you should NEVER leave a rebuy prior to the rebuy period ending.

Daniel N sits at the extreme end of this rebuy philosophy in that he has always rebought as often as he could, while playing as loose as he could during the rebuy period and always adding on.

That being said.....I personally have always been a rebuy NIT, for the most part I generally allow myself a max 3 Buyins and many times I will buy only once (trying to take advantage of the prizepool magnifier). I have played a ton of Online and Live Rebuy MTTs with one buy. Just takes a special person to do it..generally a very tight player IMO.

My experience has been that I dont do any better with a lot of rebuys, than I do with few or none...Just seems to me that I am either lucky or not in that MTT and buying in more only wastes my own money.

Lately I have been taking more Buyins in Rebuys because I belong to a staking site. Since they believe you should buyin with a minimum of 3 and keep buying, that is what I do.

In my last few series of 5r and 10rs.....I have been cashing more money when I have the minimum 3 rebuys as oppossed to say $100 in buyins at the 10r.

i always rebuy whatever

and saying tht i always have a massive stack after rebuy period unless ive gotten unlucky there is a strategy for playing tht period tht i use but i cant remember it right now ill have to go through my notes

Well going with my own strategy after playing them 24/7 I have to agree with WEC, I rebuy from the start, giving me 3000 chips as the first hr many are trying to double up, I sit and wait for that moment which almost 100% of the time it happens. I also do an automatic add-on no matter what my chip stack is at break.

When and if I lose my originial 3000 chips, I do a double rebuy again and play real tight till the end of the first break, add-on and then hope for a double up in the 2nd hr.

It's been working for me, top 100/3000 in last two attempts.

I have also had a lot of success with this type of strategy - this is how I play most of the time.

I think that choosing to buy in only once is an interesting strategy - if you always play for a single buy-in, you are getting a huge overlay when you cash. While you are not maximizing your potential to win any particular tournament, you have 3x as many opportunities to get lucky and hit a big score. This could be especially useful if you have a limited bankroll. Even though I don't play this way, I can see how someone could make it work.

Here's what I do:

I always take the initial rebuy because I want to start out having everyone covered. This allows me to win the maximum possible when I have a good hand. I won't play a rebuy if my bankroll can't handle the initial maximum rebuys plus the add-ons at the break.

During the first hour, I never put in the first raise. I'll limp with a range of hands - if someone raises after me, I will choose to fold, call or reraise depending on what I am holding. I'll call most reasonable raises to see a flop, but I'm looking to hit the flop hard or dump my hand. I'm not looking to race or bluff much during the rebuy period.

As the blinds go up, I'll generally tighten up my hand selection, and I'm playing my normal tournament hand selection as we approach the first break. I also rarely get involved in a hand during the last 5 minutes of the rebuy period, as the short-stacks are trying to double-up or dump chips for one last rebuy.

At the break, I always rebuy if I am short enough (although I rarely find that I have less chips at the break than I start with) and always take the maximum add-on, no matter how many chips I have. The value in the extra chips is two-fold. First, every time you double-up, those chips go to work for you. They will multiply many times over as you continue to accumulate chips. Secondly, when you make it to the money, these extra chips will almost always more than pay for themselves by allowing you to move further into the payout structure.

Once the rebuy period is over, I play my standard MTT strategy, but look out for people who have not adjusted to the end of the rebuy period. I'll stay out of the way of the people who are still playing like a maniac unless I have a super-premium hand, since my goal is to keep the pot sizes reasonable and build my stack by playing poker instead of bingo.

I like KenFischer's approach. I went on line and read various articles on Rebuy tournament strategy and here is the bottom line. The main thing about making a rebuy is to get value for money, You need to make sure that you have a realistic chance of at least recouping your rebuy or even better.

These two posts pretty much some up my rebuy experience/advice.
The last post about getting value for your money is valid as well. It really doesn't matter if you rebuy 5 times, if you make it ITM and make 10x that ammount.

Why not just play a normal MTT if u dont like the rebuy?
But if your in a rebuy then u have to use the rebuy/addon option to your adddvantage if not u might sit there through out the rebuy seasion and finnaly pick up a monster and bamm u get 5players with a monster stack after all there re-buys and suck out on you.

because when you cash the payout is much bigger in relation to your stake.

Have no idea what this thread is about just wanted to say hey to KD, good to see you around the site sir.

When you say "conceded" do you mean "conceited"? You know they have 2 different meanings. I dont think I had any intention of asking something "I had an answer to". I posted what a pro had said to me and I wanted to know how others felt. I am not sure myself when to rebuy and add on. I have played it many ways. I was asking for other peoples opinions. Not that I wouldnt rebuy but to try to understand the dynamics of rebuy. Your posts are the ones that are patronizing and sort of "conceited" Professorial in approach but not understanding my question. Which is fine. Because the post did generate a lot of feedback and vaious responses that I found interestin
S L O W L Y now. I am not advocating not rebuying but when, how, and why. I know it might be a lot for you to grasp. But please dont assume I am saying enter but dont buy. Its a discussion forum guy.

Well I mean conceded I think, in that you knew your view really wasn't going to get alot of votes, but if you prefer conceited, that is ok too.
As to the rest of your post, again just look at what everyone said.
AND for the record, show me where Phil says this... or did he only tell you, did he let you in on his biggest secret? I cannot for the life of me believe that if he did enter a rebuy, that he is not going to take advantage of it... again no pro would do that, if he really doesnt like rebuys why enter them at all...
Anyways, hope you find the answer to what you are looking for. Obviously Phil told you something that I cant imagine any other pro saying, under any circumstance... if Phil said it...

I haven't played in many rebuys lately, but I use to a while back. When I did, I would rebuy even when I didn't have to... Everytime I was all-in I would quickly rebuy and even if I won the pot, the rebuy chips would also be added to my chip stack. I remember many of us did this and people would call it cheating, but the poker software allowed us to do it, and everyone could do it equally, so I thought might as well do it. I don't like rebuys anymore so I couldn't tell you if that is still possible.

They fixed that awhile back. I play them occasionally. I played one today, did one rebuy as soon as I sat down. Brought me up to 3000. Didnt lose any chips, didnt do another rebuy, though I did do an addon at the break. In my eyes that is perfect in a rebuy tournament, the buy in, plus instant rebuy, then the addon. Doesn't get any better...

Ah thanks Kenzie, nice to see you still around mate. Maybe see you at the tables soon?

Why do you think I was advocating to not rebuy? Is it just plain stubborness? This is a forum. I said I had done it with some success. I wanted to know others opinion. What makes you the guy that everyone agrees with. I am not in contention with your thought. I just wanted to know others feelings. I know some who play a $3.30 event with a rebuy for 25K and dont rebuy. THey do OK. Im not advocating that. I want to know others opinion. Your attack on me personally is on you. I dont know what more I can tell you. If you are looking for an argument take it out on someone you live with.

Blah, lol. Yeah my point stands, absolutely no reason to enter a rebuy if you either cant afford to rebuy or if you dont plan on rebuying.