Real poker is coming to the state of Florida.

#1 29th June 2009, 6:08 AM

Its been a while since I have contributed to this site. I like to wait for opportunities to find something interesting to write about and avoid the regularly talked about and discussed topics. I play live cash games, almost exclusively, and that is what I like to discuss. This may be a little long, but might be worth your time.

Real poker is finally coming to Florida.

Since 2007 the state of Florida made poker legal in certain locations. Indian territories, mostly Seminal, and some dog and horse tracks were allowed to host modified poker games. The maximum buy in to any cash game was set at $100. This limited the casinos to holding pretty ridiculous no limit games. $1/$2, $2/$5, and even $5/$10 (yes, $5/$10 with a max $100 buy in) no limit games exist at this current moment all over Florida. Limit games can not consist of any bets greater than $5. The highest limit games you will see are $2/$4. Also tournament buy ins were limited to $1,000 or less.

The problem's in the legislation that currently exists are very clear. The buy in is way too low compared to the blinds, and it creates unreal poker situations. Pot commitment is almost forced when calling a pre-flop raise in a $2/$5 or $5/$10. The games in Florida are bad games, and everyone knows it. The good news, is that this is about to end.

The Seminal Indians have reached a new deal with the state in an effort to get rid of these outrageous laws. The Governor, Charlie Christ, has until the end of August to accept the proposed deal. If not accepted the Seminal Indians will go to the federal government to get the approval. The state is expected to accept the deal because of the increased revenue it will bring. Its expected to bring at least $150 million to the state. The Florida housing market has been hit very hard, and for a state without a state text, this money is needed.

The new legislation gets rid of the max buy in for cash games and tournaments. This will completely change Florida poker. Real games will finally be possible. Florida suddenly becomes a very attractive destination for poker events.

The players down here feel like Florida is on the cusp of becoming a real poker haven. It suddenly becomes and even bigger attraction to travel to Florida for poker fans if there is a legitimate game. You can't sit at a table without hearing some talk about this. Vegas, AC, and Ft Lauderdale or Tampa will all be competing for the same poker players.

The casino's are also preparing for the change. The Hardrock in Ft Lauderdale has been getting new tables with bet line for the expected increased betting amounts. Rules are changing to create a more serious game type for the bigger money. The dealers all give a different date they expect it to change. There is a feeling of inevitability which everyone is looking forward to.

#2 29th June 2009, 6:14 AM

That's great! I wish I could be around to see it! I've lived in Florida all my life and am finally moving to NY in early August. I won't have much chances playing up there lol.

#3 29th June 2009, 6:41 AM

I am really trying to get a job down in Florida dealing poker. I currently deal in Niagara Falls, NY and hope these new laws in FL will creat a demand for more dealers.

#4 29th June 2009, 6:54 AM

I have a friend dealing down here and I've heard he makes mad money. You doing well in NY dealing?

#5 29th June 2009, 6:55 AM

I live in Tampa ,FL.It has some of the best poker rooms.I have seen.I have a Hard rock in seminole ,FL not too far.I also Have a Tampa Bay Downs which has a state of the art Poker rooms.In which Gavin Smith plays at sometimes.We also have my favorite state of the art Poker room in the derbylane called the derbyclub in St. Petersburg right outside Tampa.Which is a brand new 3.5 million revenation roon.It has 120 HDTV 50' and One section for Tourney and one for Cash games and more tables if needed.The guy who posted first is right Florida will be a big time poker haven.

#6 29th June 2009, 8:13 AM

wow this is great news! i also live near hardrock casino in tampa (it's about a 40 minute drive) if this does happen i'm going to have to drive over to hard rock much more often.

#7 29th June 2009, 8:22 AM

I'm so jealous, there is a casino about 40 min away from me but all slots and horse race betting, BS if you ask me. AC is the closest with a poker room and thats 3 hrs away, but go Florida for this!

#8 2nd July 2009, 9:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clubsta

I have a friend dealing down here and I've heard he makes mad money. You doing well in NY dealing?

Yeah the dealing up here is great, I just am really trying to move to Florida.

#9 2nd July 2009, 10:10 PM

That's cool I grew up in Florida South Florida to be exact. Okeechobee the big lake down their was my hometown maybe i need to go back I am living in AR right now

#10 5th July 2009, 1:45 PM

It's about time FL picks up the pace and elects to run with the rest of the big states in casino gaming. Hopefully the recently opened Sands in Bethlehem, PA adapts acquires rights to a poker room. The only unfortunate down fall would be taking business away from Atlantic City, NJ casinos.

#11 30th July 2009, 12:19 AM

Just wanted to give an update to everyone. A lot has changed since my OP. I have been following this thread (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/57...-788-a-497701/) and have spent about 4 hours this week trying to read and understand everything thats going in this state. This thread has Lots of good info, and tons more information than I am going to give in this little summary.

Basically the Seminal tribe is now not in agreement with the state legislator because of a few issues with the compact that has been signed by governor Christ:
1) The biggest disagreement seems to be in the lack of whats called "exclusivity" that has been provided to other Indian tribes in previous court decisions. The legislation signed by the state of Florida does not provide exclusivity to the Seminals. This allows the state to provide high limit poker (and other class 3 gaming) to other institutions. The Siminal indians, for obvious reasons, don't want this to happen.

2) The tribe will be forced to pay 50% more. This is even harder to take without the guarantee of exclusivity. The seminals are afriad that if other parties are allowed to have poker they should not be forced to pay more than the currently do.

As of now it does not look like any of the poker laws will be changing any time soon in Florida. The Seminal tribe is not going to accept an agreement that does not give them exclusive rights to class 3 gaming. The state, as of now, does not look like its going to provide that. It looks like it will just be more and more time until someone gives. No one is really sure when that will happen.

#12 30th July 2009, 12:46 AM

I wish they could get it all worked out. Florida is much closer to me than any of the other places where good tournaments are held.

#13 25th August 2009, 3:29 AM

Another Update

The deadline is approaching this week and the state's negotiator, Galvano, is in the capital meeting with the Seminals. There was an article today that kind offered some hope to this compact being signed and changes coming to the state. Galvano said that it looks like the state is going to try to reach a middle ground with the indians to accept the deal becaue of the possible increase in funds towards the state's budget. The deadline is August 31st. This is a big week for poker in florida, and if the deal is signed poker in general. Florida will become a huge poker destination.

Keeping my fingures crossed that this happens. If so, the first few months of this are going to be insanely juicy. Updates will follow

#14 25th August 2009, 5:03 AM

Well I'll be back down there Wednesday through the end of the week (wife's family reunion in Panama City), so I'll be heading over to Ebro again to play some $1/$2 NL. I was hoping this would get resolved before then, I felt really tied down by the 50bb buy-in. Maybe next year.

#15 25th August 2009, 5:18 AM

I just moved to Florida less than a week ago. Would be nice to get this through.. hopefully paving the way for a possible WSOP Circuit event to come through the state in the future.

#16 25th August 2009, 8:13 PM

Hello,

PLEASE state it properly............It's SEMINOLE not seminal.

#17 25th August 2009, 8:32 PM

Quote:

I live in Tampa ,FL.It has some of the best poker rooms.I have seen.I have a Hard rock in seminole ,FL not too far.I also Have a Tampa Bay Downs which has a state of the art Poker rooms.In which Gavin Smith plays at sometimes.We also have my favorite state of the art Poker room in the derbylane called the derbyclub in St. Petersburg right outside Tampa.Which is a brand new 3.5 million revenation roon.It has 120 HDTV 50' and One section for Tourney and one for Cash games and more tables if needed.The guy who posted first is right Florida will be a big time poker haven.

I have played in tampa several times in the past,most notably the hard rock and at luckys card room.
I think that is at the track.
Just some tournaments in hardrock.

This is great for florida.
I usually travel to biloxi or tunica to play.
The 100 buy in max andonly being able to play 2/4 limit was just games that couldnt be beat past the rake if you ask me.
I love the fact that we are going to be gettin some new regulations down here for that.

#18 25th August 2009, 8:34 PM

I have family over there and am in planning for visiting Miami.

This is good to hear.

#19 25th August 2009, 8:51 PM

Would love this - Florida is close for me. Well some parts of it are lol.

#20 25th August 2009, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Would love this - Florida is close for me. Well some parts of it are lol.

Deb anytime you and Joe come down you can stay on my boat.
I will show you guys a great time down here ok.

#21 25th August 2009, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by left52side

Deb anytime you and Joe come down you can stay on my boat.
I will show you guys a great time down here ok.

What part of Florida are you in? (and do I look like someone who could get by staying on a boat? hehe)

#22 25th August 2009, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dakota-xx

(and do I look like someone who could get by staying on a boat? hehe)

I think I'd rather have a boat than a flush or str8.

#23 25th August 2009, 10:58 PM

Quote:

What part of Florida are you in? (and do I look like someone who could get by staying on a boat? hehe)

I am about an hour or so north of tampa.
And my boat is not just a boat lol,it has all the amenities of a modern hotel one might find nessesary

#24 25th August 2009, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by left52side

I am about an hour or so north of tampa.
And my boat is not just a boat lol,it has all the amenities of a modern hotel one might find nessesary

ohhhh lol

#25 26th August 2009, 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by left52side

I am about an hour or so north of tampa.
And my boat is not just a boat lol,it has all the amenities of a modern hotel one might find nessesary

Party on Left's boat! I'm over on the east coast of Florida, just north of Ft. Lauderdale. Tampa's not too far

#26 26th August 2009, 9:59 PM

Quote:

Party on Left's boat! I'm over on the east coast of Florida, just north of Ft. Lauderdale. Tampa's not too far

Poker party poker in the gulf.
I like the sound of that mortis.

#27 27th August 2009, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by left52side

Poker party poker in the gulf.
I like the sound of that mortis.

Just tell me when, I'd be down for that, hehe.

#28 1st September 2009, 3:33 AM

Another update.

Today the compact that the Seminole tribe signed on Friday was signed by the Governor. It is now passed on to the legislator. They will meet in a special session in October in which 1 of 3 things will happen.

1. The compact will be signed. Class III gaming will come to 7 Seminole locations in the state of Florida. This means high stakes (vegas style) poker.

2. The compact will not signed and instead the legislator will agree on different legislation and allow all parimutuels in the state to have class III gaming. This means high stakes (vegas style) poker.

3. The compact will get rejected and the legislator will not agree on different legislation this October.

What today means is pretty much.......more waiting. But hopefully within 90 days we will be able to buy into a 5/10 game with more than 10 bbs.

#29 1st September 2009, 3:45 AM

This is the first Ive heard of this. I take the Fam to Disney every year for the good of the many. I wouldn't mind to see the day there were Ring games going outside at the base of Epcot.

#30 4th September 2009, 1:38 AM

Wish they open one here in Orlando. Im tired of going to Tampa to play live it 1 1/2 drive.

#31 30th September 2009, 8:05 PM

Update and Summary

Quote:

Okay, let's review.

Federal law gives the right to any Indian tribe to run any Class II gaming which is offered anywhere within the state without a compact. This includes bingo (and therefore bingo slots) and poker (at whatever limits are available to others by state law), among other games.

Federal law gives the right to any Indian tribe to run any Class III gaming which is offered anywhere within the state, but it has to be done by compact with the state and the state has to negotiate a compact in good faith. Class III gaming includes banked card games, other casino games, pari-mutuel wagering and lotteries, among others.

As Florida has pari-mutuel wagering and a lottery, the Seminole tribe has been trying to get the State of Florida to negotiate a compact for some Class III gaming for sixteen years. The state has shot down every attempt by the Seminoles in one way or another, including getting a Federal court ruling that the tribe doesn't have the right to sue the state in court to make a compact with them.

A few years ago, by local referendum, the pari-mutuels in Miami-Dade and Broward counties were granted lawful permission to install Class III slot machines, and proceeded to do so. This gave the right to the Seminole tribe to do the same, but once again not without a compact, which the state legislature refused to negotiate. The tribe made numerous appeals to the Federal government to intervene on their behalf.

Finally, the Secretary of the Interior gave the state a deadline, after which he would issue administrative procedures to give the Seminole tribe some or all Class III gaming (he didn't say which) without a compact and therefore without any revenue sharing with the state. The Florida legislature still refused to negotiate a compact, so at the last minute Crist stepped in and negotiated a compact so that the state would receive revenue sharing on the Class III gaming. This gave the tribe Class III slots (which the tribe was entitled to without any revenue sharing), plus on banked card games with exclusivity in exchange for revenue sharing on all tribal gaming revenues (Class II and Class III).

This compact was signed by the tribe and the governor, accepted by the Secretary of the Interior, and published into federal law in the Federal Register. But, the Speaker of the Florida House and the Florida House or Representatives made a court challenge in the Florida Supreme Court and got the compact voided, according to that court. It has yet to be determined if this would hold up in Federal court as well, so this original compact may or may not still be valid under Federal law - and probably is until the matter is settled in the U.S. Supreme Court. Note also that Crist did make valid arguments for the lawfulness of his actions in negotiating and signing that compact without the approval of the state legislature.

After the original compact was struck down by the state SC, the Florida Attorney General attempted to get the feds, who are the only ones with the authority to enforce laws on tribal lands, to come in and shut down the Class III gaming which the Seminoles had begun to operate based on the original compact. The feds refused to do so a few times, instead asking the tribe to legally justify continuing under the old compact, and in the meantime the tribe asked SCOTUS to rule on the case. But these legal actions were put on hold when the feds pressured the Florida legislature to negotiate a new compact and the legislature began that process this past spring.

Now we come to all the latest mess under SB788. This new compact did not give the tribe true exclusivity on the banked card games, which is pretty much de riguer for a tribal gaming compact which has revenue sharing. It's the whole reason an Indian tirbe does revenue sharing in the first place.

So, the compact under SB788 was pretty much dead in the water to begin with, and I'm pretty sure the legislators knew that. It's really no surprise that the tribe came out of the "negotiations" with a compact that didn't match SB788, and included the main points of exclusivity and gaming at all seven tribal casinos. But this gives the legislators - lead by Atwater, who is from Palm Beach County - what they really want, imo - a public excuse to expand Class III slots to pari-mutuels across the state and the Class III casino games to all the pari-mutuels in the three South Florida counties.

The tribe no doubt new this was on the horizon, and they would shortly be entitled to all the Class III gaming without any revenue-sharing. So there was really no reason for them to sign any compact that didn't give them true exclusivity.

Everything else is just public posturing. There will be no compact until the feds step in, and by then there will be Class III casino games in South Florida and therefore no requirement for revenue sharing by the tribe. In the meantime, the state will replace the lost revenue from the tribes by taxes on the expanded gaming at the pari-mutuels (and possibly Video Lottery Terminals).

QED

PX

#32 30th September 2009, 8:09 PM

The above was copied from another forum but its gives a much better summary than I could do.

It looks like the special session in October is not going to happen and it is going to delay these changes once again. The state negotiator has said publicly that he hopes to meet in November to discuss the bigger issue (gambling in Florida) and not just the Seminole deal. Now it looks like there is going to be reform of Florida gambling laws which should allow for higher stakes everywhere in the state. Although the time frame has been delayed it does look like its still going to happen. Most people are estimating july 09 due to legislator meetings and other time frames.

Just want to keep updating you every month or so till this happens. Keeping my finges crossed it sooner than later.

#33 30th September 2009, 11:23 PM

I just want the WSOP Circuit to come to Florida, lol. Hopefully in the future.

#34 1st October 2009, 12:29 AM

Im glad to hear this...Im Irish but heading to florida in november for 2 months...was so afraid that i couldnt get a prper game, now looking forward to it...thanks for the thread,very informative..

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