PRF% should be 75% of VP$IP%

#1 12th June 2007, 11:27 PM

This was the ratio recently given as the minimum by a pro (GreenPlastic) in one of the poker magazines.

Anyone at this level?

It makes sense to me, even though I for one was pretty short at 27.28/16.24 (over only 17,490 hands), i.e., just about 60%.

Obviously these are full ring/cash game stats; stats will be skewed by tournament final table shorthanded play, as well as a lesser number of players in a ring game.

This looks like a pretty simple leak to work on that could make a huge difference in bottom line.

New mantra: up that preflop aggression!

#2 13th June 2007, 1:15 AM

One easy way to work on this is to follow the old saying that you never open limp into a pot. If it's folded around to you, pretend your call button doesn't exist. You either raise or fold. If it's good enough to call with, then raise. If it isn't good enough to raise with, then fold. Not only does it work on your aggression, but it also never lets the BB see a free flop whenever you open up a pot. And of course there will be exceptions like changing up your game and such.

#3 13th June 2007, 1:41 PM

I NEVER limp in. Ever. And my numbers still were not high enough.

#4 13th June 2007, 1:46 PM

My numbers are not even close to that. I do admit that I'm a pretty passive player. One thing that you do have to realize is that this stat was given by a pro that probably plays much higher limits that most on cardschat. In my opinion passiveness isn't as bad in lower stakes as it is in the higher stakes.

I do agree that about 75% of the time you should be raising an unraised pot instead of calling but there is a good change you have a super-agressive loose monster thats going to raise behind you anyway. If thats the case passiveness would probably be +EV.

#5 13th June 2007, 2:07 PM

True, sometimes passive play is the best play, at any level. Over a large sample of hands, however, I am thinking that 75% is probably pretty close to accurate no matter what the stakes are.

#6 13th June 2007, 2:09 PM

Well - needless to say I fall a bit short here - only 1/3 rd of where I should be. Maybe I should shoot for 50% to start with.

#7 13th June 2007, 2:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aliengenius

True, sometimes passive play is the best play, at any level. Over a large sample of hands, however, I am thinking that 75% is probably pretty close to accurate no matter what the stakes are.

Well I have only played up to $25NL cash games but I would guess that the 75% would be at stakes of $50NL and up for online play. For $10NL (what I play the most) 65% should be a good number to aim for maybe 70% max. I'm just guessing at the numbers because like I said I'm a really passive player and still trying to fight out of that.

Overall I would guess a 65% PFR/VP$IP for $10NL and 70% for $25NL would be a perfect number as the abundance of super LAG opponents will drop your percentages.

#8 14th June 2007, 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aliengenius

I NEVER limp in. Ever. And my numbers still were not high enough.

Am I missing something obvious? You never limp or you did you mean you never open limp?

If you never limp at all, then you're always either raising or folding PF. If you raise every single time you actually enter a pot, then your PFR would be 100% and would be equal to 100% VP$IP, wouldn't it?

#9 14th June 2007, 12:07 AM

Right, never open limp (that's what I meant when I said "in", but it's not specific). I don't even have the limp utg w AA, re-raise play in my repertoire (it is precluded by my "style" of play ).

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