Poker theory is giving me a headache

Man pot odds, implied odds, all the other poker principles its like pulling teeth. Its like when I used to study accounting between naps. My head would fall to those books quite often. Thats why I am addicted to coffee today. Not wonder there are somany donkeys out there. I may just stay a noob.

Poker theory is a lot like music theory.You should learn all you can and then forget it and just play.Poker absolutely by the book would be too boring for me to handle.It has it's place but does not come close to defining my playing style.
Holdem.

Don't try to learn everything by the book. The best poker players got that way not by reading books, but through experience.

i agree it takes a lot of experiance to master poker lokk at old doyler a master in his own wright

I agree with all above... books can only get you so far, a lot of it is just being able to read your opponent (which is a lot harder online). Books can help, but only if there is a base skill level to build off of. Good luck with your endeavor though.

all i so is try to use basic instinct and play my cards, i feel that the biggest part of poker is position, if you can master that...implied odds and all that nonsense goes out the window.

Everybody hates math...so learn it in steps .Thats what I'm trying to do.
Its easier to do if your not in a hand so there is no pressure.
Takes time you'll get it

Theory is fine well and good, but dont lose fun playing by getting a headache about it, its like always you need patience and experience.

Just try to pull small pieces of info from books that might help your game in the beginning in time you will pick up your own strategies from playing alot.

Yep I agree I was just poking some fun at myself and all those who play by the book. I am going to go to the library one day and get me some books to read.

Yep I agree I was just poking some fun at myself and all those who play by the book. I am going to go to the library one day and get me some books to read.

I think you can't just learn it all by reading books. Of course it's important to know theory and alll that, but also you get better just by playing and learning from others. Experience and routine is also important, so you just *know* what to do instead of having to *think* about it.

Woehh glad i am not the only one....hahahahah really hate math was not good at it too...hehe

I recommend you read some / play some... and then after your online or live play, go back to certain chapters of a book and see how something you read applied to a situation you encountered.

It will start to come together better by applying your real-life examples to the theory.

As well, check out some basic CC links like:

http://www.cardschat.com/odds-for-dummies.php and
http://www.cardschat.com/poker-odds-...plied-odds.php

Learn some of the shortcuts as well for the math.. Like the 4 / 2 rule for post-flop odds on outs.

I concur.

Alternatively, you could forget any idea of studying to improve your game and just play for laughs. I highly recommend this approach - more profit for me.

At one time I wanted to be an accountant, but after a few attempts at taking classes and studying the books, I couldn't take it. The books always put me to sleep. Poker books, on the other hand, don't have the same effect on me. I find them very interesting, and the more I play, the more useful the books are. You need to play and study; either one on its own won't allow you to progress fast enough. Think how hard it would be to become a good accountant without studying the material in the books but just making entries in your journals. Likewise, if you just read accounting books and never tried to apply it, you wouldn't be an accountant. You have to do both. I think Poker is the same way.

Poker math is about odds, and if you don't know the odds, you're bound to make mistakes -- and that's the goal of good poker players, to induce mistakes from your opponents and avoid making them yourself. If you go against the odds, in the long run, you will lose.

I think I'm a glutton for punishment. I hate reading poker books, most are too dry and extremely boring with all of the focus on the numbers and none on entertainment. When I read them my head swims with the numbers and starts to hurt. But, for some perverse reason I recall the info when the situation arises and my game improves after reading and applying the info to my game.

To top it off, I know that I am getting 2 more books for xmas and atleast 1 gift card to barnes and noble to buy another. I guess its going to be a couple of months of headaches and hopefully another level to my game.

need to give santa a hint for one of those barnes and noble cards

Listen to me people !! You should not read books to try and improve your game. Play for fun, reload when payday comes around, why give yourself headaches?
In fact, don't look around the articles here at Cardschat either, forget about posting hands for analysis too. Just continue to play AT UTG 'til your hearts content.

This post brought to you by Sarcasm inc.

I wish i could get back to the way i was playing before i started to pick up poker books and reading them, i was winning a lot more cash then

Only odds I have learned, are the main draw odds, like OES, or Flush draw. You can read the books and read and it can either improve your game or worsen it, poker is something you gotta learn over time on your own. You dont see pros playing by the books constantly, and if you watch tv, you catch em calling raised preflop on low suited connectors and if they hit the flop its beautiful, because things like that throw players off simply because they try to play the way you are, by the books.

The most important math is to keep track of your chips and knowing when to get the hell up! It`s always helped me.

It seems to me that they are great for getting to know the game and "some" of stratigic play.
It doesn't seem to help when no matter what you do according to the book you are following at the time everything goes opposite of that and you think the person who wrote this must me moronic, that's why I agree as playing online it is good to follow odds more but when live get the read on the person, sometimes that really is a huge difference. I haven't been playing that long but reading and playing seem to be really different at times. I appreciate all the help from players and their situations abit more it seems like it is what you actually come across when playing both the good and bad.

Play, Play, play...

yea pretty much if u got a good draw, RAISE . odds to call dont count if your the one betting out, but atleast know how often you will get there, But this might be why I lose alot lol

get a feel for your opponents, then deal with 'em accordingly. observe, then expose.

numbers should be second nature, read your table and play your opponents.

always look like you know what youre doing and be quick about it. don't give your opponent time to think.

bully a bully.

never play long shots. (inside straight against a flush draw etc.)

stay disciplined, you will never win every single game, as long as you know you played well, you should be happy with yourself.

don't get mad if you know you played well and lost to a suckout/ thats poker.

The only math a player should know is how to calculate what he feels his outs are, and correlate that into a percentage rather quickly. The system I found that works best is this - take your outs, let's says for this example it's a flush draw we hold.

You have:
9/8 Hearts

Opponent has:
A/A no hearts

Flop: Ks 2h 6h

This means we have 9 outs (the nine hearts left in the deck). Take your outs (in this case we have 9), multiply by 2 and add 1. So we have 9 x 2 = 18 + 1 = 19% chance of hitting our draw on the turn. In order to figure out what our odds are for the turn AND river; just double the 19% to 38% to compensate for the extra card. This gives you the chances of hitting your draw if you play the hand to a showdown.

This works for any scenario too. So if you can somehow narrow down what you think your opponent has (in this case if my opponent bet into me I would assume he has A/K for the purposes of making a pot odds decision); you can assume your percentage to win the hand using this system. Which generally leads to good decisions with regards to how much money you should be investing relative to your odds of winning. If I'm 38% to win with my draw, then I don't really want to put more than another 38% investment. So if the pot is 300 and the bettor comes out with a bet of 100 ... I'd call, b/c I'm getting 4 to 1 odds now after he makes the pot 400 with his bet. And b/c I'm better than 4 to 1 to win the hand, I call. So even though you know you're probably losing the hand at the moment, you just made a great call. Once you know the math poker is less stressful, ironic as that seems.

Again - Outs x 2 + 1 = percentage to hit on next card
Also - (Outs x 2 + 1)x2 = percentage to win on showdown if you see both the turn and river card

....

I fell a sleep while reading this. It was somewhere here.

lol, it's too simple though - (Outs x 2) + 1 = %

And if you want to know what the % is for both the Turn and River card, you just double that number.

That's it. I don't see what else there is to learn, my Niece could work this math equation and she's only 3!

I just use the 4 and 2 rule.

On the flop, outs x 4 = chance to hit by the river.

On the turn, outs x 2 = chance to hit by the river.

Implied odds = depends on the other player. ie: Is he stupid enough to stack off with top pair/top kicker?

Just use the flush draws & oesd's have lots of outs, gutshots & overcards have less rule.

Pot odds for dummies: If the pot is big, and the bet is small, you don't need much of a draw to continue. If the pot is small, and the bet is big, your draw better be hella awesome.

Implied odds for dummies: How much money will it cost you to make a hand that beats what your opponent likely has? A little? How much can you win when you beat his hand? A lot? Then you have implied odds!

Brilliant. These post make it a lot simpler for me. Now to solve the puzzle of Omaha High Low