Poker as a Profession

Really need some insight from either Poker players that are professionals or from poker players that have close friends that are pros. For the past year I have been working really hard at getting my game back to where it use to be. After having more winning then losing sessions (Live at Casinos) I'm thinking of playing poker fulltime. I want any opinions on things I might need to consider other then the basics. I also will be bill free for the next year since a friend of mine is helping me financially. Pretty much just looking for some helpful tips that I might have overlooked, thanks

well then sir.....u better be able to save and have a plan.....i lived off poker for about six months and i found out that having that much cash available at all times brings around splurging on useless things and brings tilt also...if u can save UNTOUCHABLE MONEY and keep great track of ur winnings and loses then u should be on ur way

what limits do you currently play at and what is ur roll?

1/2 NL and about 8K

keep a record of your win/loss and update it every time you play. Don't play too much as you will lose your edge. Rest well, study strategy, and find those holes in your game. Know when you might be tilting and if you are take a break, get a drink or go get laid .

Always have the emergency money.. Play for fun, if you start to lose the fun of playing poker, you gonna start losing and hating poker. That's my opinion.
Study, watch poker games, review your plays, just like a good player do. and good luck on the tables.

Good luck avoiding tilt... its a lot harder to avoid when you dont have another source of income

Human capital refers to the stock of skills and knowledge embodied in the ability to perform labor so as to produce economic value. It is the skills and knowledge gained by a worker through education and experience.

This is taken straight from wikipedia.

Becoming a professional 1/2 live poker player (if there is such a thing)doesn't create much future economic value for yourself. What if the poker scene takes a dive, because of preferences or even legislation? Or consider the possibility that the skill level of remaining poker players after the burst of popularity is too high for you to sustain livable wages (or casinos start to hike the rake!).

After years of playing poker, you have to find a different job. You're skills are very unique, however they aren't exactly applicable to gaining entry into many professions (and even if the math behind poker is applicable, you are still probably competing against other job candidates that have direct skills and experience in the field). It will be tough and the capital you will have created within yourself will most likely be low at best. I guess you could work at a casino, or try to write a book, but not many people will be willing to buy a book from a person that isn't an expert in their field.

And not to be mean, but if I had to play the percentages, I doubt you will become an expert or win millions playing poker for a living. Of course I would be just as content if you proved me wrong.

I would say a better plan would be to get a stable job and play poker part time for extra income. Take classes or study a subject that will give you a specialized set of skills that are in high demand - this will increase your economic value to the world, lead to higher earnings, and won't burden your friend with having to take care of you financially (I would hate to do this to a friend).

If someday you start making just as much money playing poker as you do at your current job, then it might be worth thinking about playing poker professionally.

Whatever you decide, good luck.

This.

$8k is definitely a good amount, but not enough if you're solely relying on your poker income to live. To be on the conservative side, you should have a year's worth of living expenses saved up as a backup. The best option for you would be to continue playing on the side and just get/maintain a full-time job.

its gonna be very hard to make a livable income playing 1 2 stakes live . . . . you could manage to do it online multitabling but live will be very very hard. if you really dont like playing online and u want to play only live then i would suggest taking a couple shots at the 2-5 games. your a little underrolled for them with 8k but i would buy in 400 at least 4 times.

the only reason i am telling u to try and move up even tho ur a little underrolled is bc u mentioned u do not have any expenses for the next year. if you had then i would def. not tell you to do this.

also making a living playing the 2-5 games is also going to be very difficult live. i would think you would need to be at least playing 5-10 to make a living playing live cards.

also have you ever tried to grind 6 to 8 hours a day every day? most people become very miserable after a few weeks of doing this.

This statement here sends up red flags for me. If you are planning on being a professional poker player and have crunched the numbers based on the fact that you won't have any bills to pay and no responsibilities, then be very careful. Especially if this independence is coming for a "friend". This may sound like a great opportunity, but things can and do change very quickly in relationships and if they are supporting you to make this go, I am sure it will put a large strain on that friendship. I think you need to make sure you crunch the numbers and do it on your own without the assistance of a friend. If you choose to go down that path, then that is fine, but do not use it as a factor in making this decision.

I have personal testimony from a very good player in STL, he went pro in 1-3 NL for a year, only playing small satellites and MTTs online(never over a $20 buy in) and he netted $32k for the year. He used to make $55k/yur with benefits at his job, but he says he would chnage it for the world, he is doing what heloves, gets to travel a TON, and has a lax schedule. What more could you ask for? The only downside is the absence of provided health insurance, but he has a $10k roll and has $75k saved up. Even if you have to take a pay cut, if you love what you do, and you make a killing at it considering the stakes, if you can live comfotably and not blow it all on impulse buys, then go for it, my man!

Don't forget taxes, yes taxes, you do have to pay taxes on gambling winnings, and if you sneak by now then win something major later and they come after you... well lets just say you don't want to be on the IRS's bad side.

Don't consider free living expenses for this year as part of anything. Figure out how much your expenses really are. Rent, utilities, food, entertainment, travel, everything. Treat this as what you want it to be a business, create a business plan. If you aren't generating enough income to cover all your expenses (even though you say you have none for the year) then it is futile. Say you make 20k the first year, without expenses, what does that really mean. Absolutely nothing. Just my opinion.

I have supported myself for short periods of time playing a local 2/5 game. It has completely changed my idea of what being a pro would be like. Granted I was playing a bad game, and low stakes, I did have a decent role, and decent money and was able to support myself. But I did it knowing it was only for a few months, and that I was sure i would have a job lined up in that time. I would definitely not want to do it as a 2/5 player. The though of grinding out the 1/3 at turning stone is even more ludicrous. You need to move up in stakes if you want to have a chance at making a living doing so. You are going to have losing sessions and you need to make sure you are making enough to cover your expenditures when your having those losing sessions.

You also need to be able to handle the swings emotionally. Its very tough to take 3 losing sessions in a row when that is what you are depending on to buy groceries. Making decisions about your social life, based on your performance at the table is very stressful.


I second the post about it being difficult to have large sums of cash around. It is still a leak in my game to spend it on partying and strip clubs and girls and what not. Having thousands sitting in desks and drawers makes spontaneous ideas difficult to say no to.

I am all about taking chances and shots. I suck at bankroll management and believe that part of the gamble is trying to move up and take shots. Move up. I went to college in upstate NY and am familiar with Turning Stone (I assume thats where you play because of the SU name). The 2/5 there is soft, during college even softer. You should be able to play it fine, with a roll or 8k. Buy in with 4 or 500 and wait for your spots, just like you would in a 1/3. The limit games there used to be awesome. I remember making a killing playing the 15/30 as a sophmore in college. Made me think I was this ****. That was a while ago, but the 20/40 there is good too.

To be very honest, playing the 1/3 for a living is dumb. You don't win enough money regularly to make it affordable. the 2/5 or 5/10 will be a much better game to try.

(sry for typos, in a rush. Lobster season started down here)

Not to be a downer, but $8k is significantly underrolled for 1/2 live for full time play, even if it is "expense free". What if the relationship goes south? Then you are stuck with monthly expenses that your roll cannot support. What if you get into a barfight one night and have to go to the hospital? Rollsmasher. RoR is way too high. I have had one of my best friends, who plays professionally, go from 100k to busto in a week and needing to borrow money from me. Granted he plays at the 10/20 and 25/50 level, but either way, 8k is far too little.

I know I just repeated what previous posts have stated but there are soooo many important factors that you need to be content with before living on poker. Im just going to rapid fire them off here. A reply post would be appreciated.

What is your winrate? For how long? Is there a game available every day? Is it a beatable game? Are you able to stay focused 8 hours a day 6 days a week? Are you motivated to play daily? Do you tilt? Do you handle stress well? Do you manage large sums of cash well? Do you accurately track/document your play? Are you honest with yourself? Are you REALLY honest with yourself?

Answer these questions plz. Be very honest. First to yourself, then as a post in this thread.

If you decide to jump in head first, then I wish you only the best.

Edit: Im really good at forgetting to include things... Tell us your business plan! What are your goals in terms of monthly/quarterly/yearly. How much will you play a week? How much do you need/want to make?

Personally I would look at it like this.

Do you enjoy it?

Have you enough money to get by for the next 6-12 months if you don't win via poker.. could you take on a small part time job just to pay the bills?

Will leaving your job for 6-12 months (assuming it dosent work out) make all that much difference?

Do you have a family to support?

Basically if you are young, free and single, have enough money to buy food and pay the rent for a year and feel that if you quit your job next week, you would have no difficulties finding another in a year's time..... then why not?

[ x ] busto

See this thread.

Buy this book.

Also, realistically, you probably need to play $2/$5 NL live to make a living: that means a $50,000 professional level bankroll.

Have you considered becoming a LIMIT expert? Theoretically you could play $20/$40 on a $12K BR.

Because it doesn't build many skills or experiences that are seen as valuable. What do you do in 10 years when your life and poker are changing yet you have no economic value as a person trying to get a job in most markets?

You tackle that when you come to it.

Life is for living, not just conforming to the adopted norm.

I have heard too many people say the words..."If I had my life over again I'd do...xxx"

At first I read your post and thought it sounded somewhat irresponsible. Then I thought, "that's ****ing badass". I like this.

Really it just comes down to how you want to live your life and taking into account the possible consequences. If you're willing to potentially make it harder for yourself to find a career should things go wrong, but can realistically see yourself making a living at this game, then you should do it. But to the OP, I agree with the above posts, your situation sounds very borderline. I myself would tend to err on the side of caution and get a job, choosing just to play poker on the side.

You want irresponsible? I will geive you irresponsible: Your life in this moment and every moment is determined by "HOW YOU FEEL".

Can you imagine what being your true self (Soul) feels like? let me give you a hint: Bliss, Love, Joy, Happiness. Therefore anytime you feel any of those feelings you are more fully yourself. If poker gives you any of those feelings then its for you.

I enjoy poker, But I feel my best when I coach or teach, its my passion and purpose. Poker is a hobby that I would like to make very profitable and thats why I'm learning at cardschat.

Do you feel your best living from hand to mouth off the poker table like Doyle, and many others did? The great sages of all time have said "follow your bliss." Theres great wisdom in that statement.

I dont think this helped any but I felt like giving my two cents. Keep an open mind to what these pros are telling you but-take your own counsel at the end of the day.

Lata

True, I guess it depends what type of person you are. And that quote could definitely come from a lot of grinders you see sitting in the card rooms as well, but they didn't conform.

I always thought life was about surviving and making yourself as well off as possible, but this is just my opinion of course. If playing cards in a casino is how the original poster thinks he can do it, then go for it. I just don't think he's thought through this enough.

I also never said he had to conform. Having a unique set of skills and experiences that the world finds value in doesn't make you a sell out! Nuclear engineers aren't conforming to the norm, but they are a lot better off than most of us.

Definitely, I don't disagree with people who become very career orientated. Its probably the safer bet.

I just think that youngsters should be encouraged to throw caution to the wind a little and go and try these crazy things.

If it doesn't work out then realistically 2 years out of the rat race won't make much difference.

When family responsibilities come along, people cant do these kinds of things so I just feel that people should give things a go whilst they still have the opportunity.

Not just playing poker, but things like travelling the world etc.

Currently I'm unemployed (Laid off) and haven't been able to find work after being at the same job for 10 years. Secondly its my family thats helping with the financial and emotional support so highly doubtful the relationship will go south. My goal is to give it one full year of 1/2 NL and see where I'm at next year, if its positive then I continue. However if its not then I simply fall back to what I was doing. My plan is very basic and simple. I have put alot of time into drawing out a schedule with my family to discuss all the details so its not like Im dropping everything. I do however love and appreciate the responses

No Remorse, No Regret. GO4IT

I love this response. I can see that you put a lot of time and effort into this decision. I agree with what everyone has said though. I am glad you are giving yourself a year to see how it all pans out. If you end up winning enough to continue, AWESOME, if not well back to the drawing board. Remember even if you dont make enough, and dont go "pro" you can always treat it as a part time job and do the type of work you were doing b4. My buddy had 2k said he was going to go to the cino everyday he could, he wanted to make a living playing poker. He gets up to 4k, hes pumped, he knows what he wants to do with his life, 2 weeks later hes broke. lol, Don't tilt, if you do you may never forgive yourself. I'm pullin for ya man, i really am, GL

Good post...not many people realize a lot of older successful pros play Limit for a majority of their cash game play.

My suggestion to the OP. Just dont do it, dont try and make it as a pro. Hardly anyone can make it real long term playing professionally--yeah a lot of the kids are having a good year or two--but you have to make the nut every single year over 10-15 years. And even if you can, it can be a sad, rough, depressing life, especially if you exclude all/many other activities besides poker. It is the in thing to do, but best to play poker on the side and enjoy it and learn to work in a career that you can build on and live a regular family life.

I have a friend who plays online "professionally" and I have seen it take a major toll on him. He had a good year where he made 30K+ in the first 3 months of the year and he let it get to his head and he took the rest of the year off. Then the next year he struggled to break even and he was really depressed. I guess what I am trying to say is there are a lot of other things besides money that poker can change, either good or bad.

From my experiences I would recommend playing poker more on the side of a part time or full time job, and consider playing "professionally" after you have a more sizeable bankroll. $8,000 is just not enough.

What if like me you have don't have a career and can't get one?
I have a Maths degree but it has proven totally useless as I can't get a job, and have been trying for about a year.
So playing poker or writing a successful book I'm beginning to think are the only real shots I have at making any money and not just living with parents for the rest of my life on benefits

I think you need to do whatever you feel is comfortable with your life. Take in consideration all the advice given here, pick out what you feel is most relevant to your unique situation and use it to your advantage. Just make sure you have a back-up plan in case all else fails. Much luck to you out there

If you're able to make a plan that doesn't leave you out in the cold you should try it. You'll never know until you try.I would advise you to start at lowest limits until you grow a larger bankroll.If you have a whole year you don't want to start your new career with a big downswing and put pressure on your roll early.

Amen brother! Go for it! You are young without a family to support and are currently unemployed - hell yeah! If it doesn't work out for you - at least you tried! You won't have to look back on your life and wonder "what if...?"

*I would recommend you jumping up to $2/$5 - if you do well - fantastic! If you don't - move back down to $1/$2. I can tell you from my own personal experience that I am a much better $1/$2 player now than when I was before jumping up to $2/$5.

Best of luck to you! If it doesn't work out - so what? You're young, you can recoup and by golly you only have 1 life to live - live it!

Maybe you can find a part-time job while trying to make it as a poker player. That way you would at least you will have some type of dependable income.