Poker Player or Gambler

I was needling a guy at a live game the other night, and I told him "You're not a poker player, you're just a gambler. You know it's true. You're high on gambling right now."

But this got me thinking on what is the actual distinction between poker players and gamblers who play poker.

Could this be it?

A poker player would rather make the right decision, get her money in with the best hand and lose; than make the wrong decision, get her money in with the worst hand and win.

I'm not talking about a situation where you don't have the best hand, but do have the right odds to call.

Ill take the cash


Snow

yeah i think i would rather play like a donk and win versus playing good and losing my money

Pot odds, or implied odds? What about shoving over the top? Especially where you're pretty sure you don't have the best hand but have pot equity from draws.

It's hard for me to get my head around your question. If you're talking straight pot odds and you get 3-1 on the flop with your nut flush draw and can only call, then you are considering that calling is gambling? So say the other person or you is or will be all-in with two cards to come I wouldn't consider that gambling, I'd consider that investing.

Youre all overlooking the situation, or underlooking? A poker player IS a gambler. A gambler can gamble at many things, Poker is just another WAY of GAMBLING /Thread.

Also, for those whod want to argue their point in saying that using odds, position etc.. that its not gambling, it always is unless you have a Royal Flush in which no hand can beat it and that putting your money in isnt gambling because its a 100% win.

And so say the academics and their gambling studies, and they're wrong.

LOL @ this. ^^^

Many US states (including mine, California) and other countries disagree with you since they have deemed poker a game of skill.

Sure there's luck involved but if you think poker is gambling, you might as well save your money for the lotto. Bigger payout for less risk.

Have to say poker is a form of gambling but skill can be implemented to make you have a better advantage over your opponents.

I understand calling someone a gambler and not a poker player. Someone who knowingly makes bad calls in hopes of catching that miracle card is a gambler.

The posters idea of a "gambler" and my idea of a donkey would probably be similar ie. making bad callls, bad bets, etc.

In the end all poker players have some gamble to them in my mind.

You guys arent seeing my point, did you even read the second half of my post, or did you finish the first half and feel the need to insta reply about how your skills make it non gambling? if you read the 2nd half of my post, it disproves everything said in the last few posts.. it always is gambling because you can ALWAYS be BEAT on the river if your hand isnt the nuts. UNDERSTAND what im saying? it seems your too ignorant with yourself and your "skills" to realize what im acutally saying.

At least jaggibson understands in his own mind what im saying..

I can understand that yes, having skill can give you advantages just like jaggibson said, but it is what it is, ADVANTAGES, not GUARANTEES, therefore still gambling.. I hope this can help you guys understand what im trying to say..

But you're defining gambling as any time you take a chance, like walking across the street, which is not useful.

I think every gamer for money is a gambler,Poker requires more skill than just chance to be good at it and yea unless you have the nutz of the board there are still the Odds to beat against a suckout...I've been splashed by the river so much I carry a towel.

Exactly, you just disproved yourself... Like I said, without a Royal Flush you ARE taking a chance, because also like I said its the only hand that CANT be beat, therefore, any other hand CAN be beat and therefore you ARE taking a chance. You can go all in ahead, but theres usually a CHANCE that you can be beat by the river. You can minimize that chance of losing with your "skills" all you want, but bad beats exist for a reason, they're there because you ARE GAMBLING.

If you still dont see my point, there is no further arguing because you cannot SEE what is in front of you, clear solid sentences fully explaining it. If you cant see my point or see the situation from my view, then you cannot get out of your own ignorant head and actually think about what someone else is saying..

And how does what you're saying help the OP in her quest?

Lol, are you serious??!!??

"But this got me thinking on what is the actual distinction between poker players and gamblers who play poker."

I'm clearly trying to explain there is no distinction. A poker player IS a gambler. A gambler can play many things, one thing a gambler can gamble in, is poker..

"A poker player would rather make the right decision, get her money in with the best hand and lose; than make the wrong decision, get her money in with the worst hand and win."

Even when making the right decision, youre still gambling, and can lose, just like said in the quote. Actually it kind of contradicts it self maybe? no offense to OP though.

"I'm not talking about a situation where you don't have the best hand, but do have the right odds to call."

Even with odds to call, youre stil gambling..

Is that good enough for you sir? or would you like to further argue about your ownage skills that make your percentage to win every hand 100%? im coming off as an AH (cant spell it out) but your asking for it by not even beginning to try and understand what im saying and just off the bat trying to say your soo good, that your never gambling. You have to admit, your coming off as ignorant, just like I admitted im coming off as well.. yeah. Thats the only reason I got all worked up.

i love this scenario...me personally I like to get my money in with the best hand but if it came down to it then going with the worst and getting the money would please me

And I would rather play poker with you and take your money than play poker with someone who wants to make money using their poker skills.

You may say poker is gambling and it is , there I agree with you to a point.
My point is that poker is more a game of skill and less a gamble if you play your cards right, sure there is a gambling aspect to the game but knowing pot odds and all the math that goes into poker and making the correct decisions lower the gambling aspects of poker IMO.
If you don't know all the maths and only play the cards in your hand regardless of the strength of the cards, you are gambling 100% my friend, I'm sure if you look on the net you will find something which will tell you that a skilled poker player relies more on skill than luck, but even a skilled poker player will say that there is an element of gambling there.

A person who plays poker for fun is just gambling and will lose more than they win in the long run, those are the players who also play slots, BlackJack, bingo, etc, any game where the edge is against them.

Sure poker may be gambling to a point but a knowledgeable poker player will win more than they lose as compared to a recreational gambler who will lose more than they win.

I don't consider myself a gamble because I don't play games of chance where I don't have control of my actions, at least with poker I know when to hold'em and when to fold'em.

As for the OP, a skilled poker player will win more in the long run as opposed to your everyday recreational gambler who plays poker for fun.

Towel????? HA I wear a Life jacket while i play to keep from drowning!!!!

LOL @ you calling anyone else "ignorant". Are you the pot or the kettle?

No. I think someone who can't even use correct spelling and punctuation to argue against proven facts would come off as "ignorant".

Pot, kettle, or both?

I chose the donk winning option because I would always rather win a hand. But when losing a hand I would rather have gone in with the best hand.

you're playing and you're taking calculated risks. every hand you play is more of an investment than just an outright gamble. with acquired skills, you know over time you're investments will more than likely work in your benefit. so for a good poker player, even a 'chance' on a big bet is due to what he perceives as an action that will work more often than not.

baseball is a game of skill, obviously. but in the majors, even the worst team is still going to beat the best team 1 out of every 3 a good portion of the time.

of course in poker you gamble and take risks...but good players employ way more than just the luck of the draw while donk players just pretend...sometimes its a disaster when the two meet. there are aspects of the game that attract people though. there are professional poker players...there are not professional slot/bingo/lottery players though...those ppl are called one hit wonders or 'retired'. and by one hit wonders, i mean, some 80 yr old's numbers they'd played for the past 20 years finally hit.

While I hate losing money, I want to make the right play because, over time, that will bring in far more money. I hope.

-Dave

wow...some thread...poker is a form of gambling...but all in all it is a game of skill and takes talent and effort to be successful...everyone plays the game for different reasons...some play just for fun...others to relax...some do it for a living full time...i personally do it to make some money so i dont have to take on a second job...i live in niagara falls and spend about 35 hours a week playing and for a "second job", it pays pretty well....just wish i could convince the wife to let me do it full time


cheers and gl
wooter

A poker player plays cards. I am a gambler. I will bet on sports,the lottery,the weather,or whether or not I can spit on a stop sign from 20 feet away. There is a difference. Taking a huge risk on a draw is easy when it makes sense. A donk will take the risk without knowing what he's gambling on and just hoping to get lucky.

i really don't understand how anyone would wanna lose


think u r lying if u choose to lose

i would rather win playing a bad hand but in the end id like to win playing good hands but you carnt always win just playing good hands every now and then i take a stab in the dark with some hands that arnt the best but get lucky

You have to think this way, if at the end of the hand you know you made the right decision and you still lost then don't sweat it because if you continue to play the "right way" you will win in the end.

Sorry,

I choose option 3. Get my money in with the best hand and win.

Here is why poker IS NOT Gambling. I will make this as simple as possible

AA will beat 72 in the long run. If all the cards are different suites AA will win 8724 times, 72 will win 1240 times, and a tie will occur 36 times.

It may take 10 million hands for those numbers to bare out. But, they will.

Now you can argue all you want that on a hand to hand basis that you risking money is a gamble.

But, unless you are willing to play only one hand of poker in your entire life you are only gambling if you ignore the math.

"Gambling is the wagering of money or something of material value on an event with an uncertain outcome with the primary intent of winning additional money and/or material goods." Wikipedia.

The more certainty I can get into playing poker the more I like it.

Oh my, spelling and punctuation are a big deal to you huh? Just cause I dont take all the time in the world to put in every apostrophe and use perfect grammer doesnt come off as ignorant, but more as lazy. Were not having a spelling and grammer contest. If the other guy didnt literally laugh AT my post that makes complete and utter sense, I wouldnt have felt the need to put my point across to him in such a way. Proven facts? Im simply trying to say that if youre not 100% to win every hand then you are gambling, so therefore it is somewhat gambling all the time. Theres an ABSOLUTE fact right there. Just because theres certain people who agree with you, doesnt make it a fact, its called opinions. You must be another person whos "mad skillz" make you 100% to win every hand. Cause lord knows your the best. Ask any pro, even they wouldnt be ignorant enough to say that they are not gambling, and pros have said it before, Poker is GAMBLING. You cant argue with that one bit. Unless you want to state that your opinions are facts again.

As for the AA vs 2 7 example. I heard AA is 80% to win (could be wrong IDK), so that means your 20% to lose with the hand, therefore GAMBLING. I can completely understand that yes using odds and skills can make you HUGE favorites, but your only a favorite and you can be beat, therefore your hand is almost never CERTAIN, unless you have NUTS. So unless you get in EVERY pot with the NUTS, your gambling overall.

Interesting.. more people would rather lose than win.... Everybody come to my table!

Ok, new perspective on this, I asked a pro myself, he said short term yes you are gambling. But he said pros play sooo much that taking favorite calculated risks that overtime the gambling factor does die down (I understood this before and its been said here). But at least he admitted that yes you gamble sometimes, but when playing 24/7 making the right decisions then it is somewhat not gambling. You cant deny that its gambling somewhat, even he couldnt come to say that it isnt at all.

It's a stupid definition. Most investments can be defined that way too.

Whether poker is a job or an investment is a more relevant question, imo.

Also, cake!