Poker Documentary featuring Dusty "Leatherass" Schmidt

pretty interesting, short, worth a watch...

Meh.

cliffs so people dont waste 12 minutes:
- guy blames online poker for making him flunk out of college/getting him in trouble
- Doc. shows the "other side" of online poker, some online Pokerstars pro who has made millions and dresses like a bum

Film with Dusty Schmitd

worth a look

Worth a look after the first three minutes which is pointless.
A good subtitle could be "Responsible Guy versus Irresponsible Guy"

Poker player with a plan vs. Gambler without a plan

LOL! Yeah, this clip was posted in another thread and I couldn't help but think it was stealing -- not poker -- that "ruined" that guy's life.

Oh well, it make for good entertainment.

Add to it the fact that a guy who should probably be holding down a job (since he won't attend his classes) decides instead to grab his dogs and hike across the breadth of North America for some poorly defined cause-

But the first 3 minutes sure made Dusty look like a complete boob. Why the hell would he do that? Now I can't admit I spent money on his books.

LOL! The job thing got me as well! In fact, this is exactly what I said in the other thread:

Seriously, these are supposed to be the best years of your life, kid. Get out there and do something for crying out loud!


Did he look bad? I hadn't really noticed. I mean, next to that walking the earth kid, anyone would look good.

I"m currently in college. I took an extended break from online poker in all facets (including posting on this forum). Why? Because I knew I did not have the time for both and I had to set a priority.

IMO addiction is rarely the fault of the outside object (in this case poker) and much more the psychological make-up of the individual.

The irony of this Doc is that you could argue Dusty is more addicted to poker than Hop-along and his dogs. The only difference is BR management and healthy dose of skill.

I like that.

Good points, pretty much summed it all up. One particular player can be more of an addict than someone who loses everything, the difference is indeed as stated.

Phil Ivey among all the pros is probably the most addicted/gambler and poker player, the only difference is he does it in a healthy way and responsible way. He knows when to quit and so on.

Actually, I've heard him directly say that the only bets he likes to make need to be so high his hands start to shake.

Personally, I feel this is at an unhealthy level. He has such amazing skill at poker however that he can make these bets with full confidence he can win it back eventually.

Compare his play on P.A.D. with his focus on the prop bets with someone Like Ferguson who (almost) never bothers with these things.

As someone who has gone through a few "programs" - dude, you couldn't be more right on!

And yeah, maybe this guy wouldn't be "Walking the earth getting in adventures" if he would have addicted himself to bankroll management - something Dusty has pretty much confessed too.

VINCENT: How long do you intend to walk the earth?
JULES: Until God puts me where he want me to be.
VINCENT: What if he never does?
JULES: If it takes forever, I'll wait forever. VINCENT: So you decided to be a bum?

whats brian hasting is doing in this movie

didn't learn anything from this vid...

Pulp Fiction reference. Nice!

It was not educational - just a masterbatory film student project. He could have hit a home run if he had not diddled the first indulgent 3 minutes away and actually had an ending. The middle is pretty good. If I were him I'd go back and re-edit and reshoot and complete the project.

Is a fun little thing. Changing poker addiction to dog walking addiction is probably healthier...

LOL! I love it! This is exactly the reference I was thinking of when I called him that "walking the earth guy".

Oh, man. Best dialog movie ever. "I got my technique down and everything, I don't be tickling or nothing."

I love the variety of feedback I've gotten with this. Nothing like reading posts about your own film to get honest reactions. Truth is, its my first doc, for the festival I submitted it to I had to keep it under 15 minutes, and plan on making a full length version...that is if the feedback is good from this lil project. If it sucks let me know, if you wouldnt mind seeing a full length let me know as well. Dont want to spend the time if the project doesnt have interest from the poker community...

PM me dude - I won't list my credits/resume here but connect with me and we can talk and I'll give you my IMdB.

So let me get this straight one guy takes a professional responsible well behaved attitude to something and becomes a millionaire. Another guy with a complete lack of control who could have been well off decides to be reckless and then gets himself in trouble he handles tis by stealing and lying. He acts like an idiot then decides rather trying to make a positive change to his to simply go on a long walk for attention. The self pretentious prick. Maybe if he actually took some displacing and control in his life he could achieve something but no he just wants to be a prick try to sound impressive or get attention for stuff that doesn't require huge effort. And this damages the reputation of the game for the rest of us. what a ****ing scum waste of space.

So I am guessing you are not seeing this as a noble man and his dog go for a walk kind of story?

Apparently I am unable to send PM due to my newness to the site. I take it you have dabbled in film yourself Mediablitz?

Lukesilver, yeah, there hasnt been a ton of sympathy for Michael...that wasnt really the intent. The one thing I can say is that he made a big mistake, he knows it, and he's trying to make a change. I give him props for that. His efforts may seem self indulgent to some, but for the 15 minutes of attention he may get, he has got months and months alone on the road with his thoughts.
The point of the film was to show the two extremes....a film showing what USUALLY happens probably would get even less attention. Although It goes without saying that there are much more stories like Michael than Dusty. I actually interviewed Michael "The Grinder" Mizrachi for this same film and he kind of summed it up the best.... "if youre gonna play the game, there's gonna be a lot of people walking across the country....its a tough game." I wish I could have fit that in somewhere....maybe in the extended version?

Why did you end with the bit about donkeys? It really didn't fit and just seemed odd.

Is he? I got the impression that he was trying to raise awareness about the dangers of poker. But I don't feel that poker was his problem. If he hadn't stole, he could still be in school if he wanted. To me, he comes across as someone who was a little "lost" to begin with, so this trek doesn't really have any meaning. To me, at least.

I think showing the extremes is a great idea. Your footage of the success extreme is great. I just think on the other side, the representative for the extreme is weak. He seems like someone who probably wanted to walk across America anyhow. If you had someone who had been successful, but who is now really feeling the pain due to his poker, maybe lost his house or his marriage, then to me that is the extreme of loss. But a flighty college kid is already liable to walk the nation for some cause or another.

LOL! Yeah, that would be good.

You've seen the criticism, but on the plus side, I actually watched the entire film. I almost never do that. So you made an entertaining piece.

I think it helped highlight the extremes. On the one hand, some guy with a lot of money is talking about these so-called donkeys, and on the other, here is a guy with nothing -- one of the donkeys. For every big winner there is a big loser.

Fair enough, however a lot of research would support the position that addiction helps contribute to people making decisions they normally wouldnt. Whether actions resulting from a chemical addiction like drugs vs. gambling addiction hold the same value, well thats completely different can of worms. Im not an expert by any means on either, but understand both perspectives.

I also agree with Michael being a little lost to begin with...but I would argue that most of us are a little lost at that age. I mean, the decisions you make in many aspects could affect the rest of your life. The major you choose, the friends you associate yourself with, binge drinking, drug experimentation...etc. I will say, being a card player pretty much my entire life, and living through and actively participating in the online poker boom, that I also have over-drafted my checking account a few times after getting on tilt. No, I didnt steal, instead I took a few days off and paid the overdraft fees. But I definitely shared some of the same thought processes with Michael," Ill overdraft...and just win it back." This may be an assumption, but I bet most online players can related to that.

I initially tried to find someone who has experienced the level of loss you describe above, however getting someone willing to share their failures publicly is not an easy task. If you know of someone like you describe above that would be willing, shoot me a PM. Needless to say his story would have to check.
Michael's story appealed to me for many reasons, and I still stand by his story being one of the focal dichotomy's in my film. For one, I wanted a college age kid or younger. The exposure on ESPN painting these new "poker celebs" and the effect on younger demographic fascinates me as I am in that younger demographic (late twenties) and have witnessed the effect first hand. Also, while his story is extreme, it is also very familiar to many (as I discussed above). Visually I also felt it was compelling....compelling enough for me to buy a plane ticket and meet him in the middle of nowhere. The image of a young kid by himself with a few dogs and a cart in the middle of nowhere I felt painted a good picture of what it feels like to go up against the game and lose.

With that said, thank you for your feedback. It will only help me as I eventually work on expanding this story. Keep it coming!

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cliff notes-

One player studied and put in a lot of effort and won millions of dollars over millions of hands and thousands of hours.
One player obviously didn't. Didn't want to improve his game and eventually became addicted loosing a lot of money.

Well produced but a little boring IMO.

Absolutely. When I think of gambling addiction, I think of spending the rent money vs stealing. Maybe that's naive, maybe it's a minor point, and maybe it's not. Maybe it's just that the problem of gambling addiction can be worse than I want to believe. But you are correct, stealing is common with addicts of all kinds, so it's not like the case you present in the documentary is far fetched.

Oh, definitely. But his walking the earth seems as much to do with his already being lost as it does with his playing poker. However, now that I have seen you express your vision for the film, I think there's a way to mitigate that. (More on that follows.)

While I'm not that way myself (I readily admit that I'm probably not the "typical" or "normal" gambler) I think you are correct. I've seen it many times myself.

No doubt. If I could refer you to someone, I would. Also, you're on a time schedule and with limited resources. It's not like you have the personnel and budget of Frontline to travel the country following this lead and that. (But wouldn't it be cool if you did!)

Fair enough, and you've convinced me that it can work and mostly does work with what you've got already. I think the footage of Michael that you have is really good. In fact, you're not going to get footage of many people with nothing just walking along the side of the road. So in terms of visuals, that's priceless.

Absolutely. If I were you, that alone would force me to keep Michael in the film even if I had an alternate option. Good decision on buying that plane ticket!

OK, so for me, the film works, except that, as mentioned, Michael already seems a little lost and flighty to me pre-poker, so I have a hard time feeling that poker is really responsible. For Dusty, poker is no doubt responsible, so it would be nice to put the same message across with Michael.

As you mentioned, many of us in college are a little lost and flighty. So this is nothing unique to Michael. But despite being lost, the vast majority of us end up fine. But Michael didn't. So maybe you could introduce some footage that would accomplish the following goals:

(1) College kids doing lost and flighty things. Maybe film a party poker or two with everyone holding plastic cups, beer bottles, and playing beer pong, etc. Remind the viewer that college kids are a bit all over the map. Maybe film a Monte Carole night showing college kids "gambling", playing cards, etc. Maybe some hidden camera footage of kids playing the slots. Maybe even other kids playing online poker casually with other friends around. As if it's the most normal thing in the world.

(2) Try to relate Michael as being one of these college kids before things head south. I think this would make Michael seem as "normal" as everyone else before he started playing poker, or even while he is playing poker but before he started having problems with it.

(3) Try to relate Dusty as having been one of these college kids. I don't know if you could do that through photos or recounted stories or whatever.

The goal to this point would be to link Michael with Dusty and with the notion that they both started out the same, as perfectly "normal" college kids doing what college kids do.

If you do that, I think your dichotomy becomes that much stronger. Michale is no longer this kid who was perhaps already lost. Instead, he was a normal college kid just like Dusty, for but for him it went the other way. And that's the extreme dichotomy of poker.

I'm not suggesting that you would necessarily have to make these links before any of your other footage. I just think if you make those links -- basically what you have expressed here in your writing -- at some point, then the film would be much stronger. Then when I see Michael in the middle of nowhere with his dogs (which is great footage), I'm much more inclined to have sympathy and relate the cause of that misfortune more directly to poker.

Well, I hope that's helpful. If others don't see the film the way I do, then of course it will be of limited help. I'm not in film, but in software we use the 80/20 rule: you spend 80% of your time finishing up that last 20% of the project. I would imagine that a film project could turn out the same way!

Good luck to you, and please let us know if you do any further releases so we can check it out!

-Dave

It could turn out that way, BUT,
If that happens in a film project it is a sure sign something went wrong. There are three stages of production - 50% of your time should be spent in the first phase to help insure a successful production.

True enough. Although a documentary might be a little different. It's not like you can storyboard exactly what people are going to say. But yeah, for film in general, the whole thing is scripted out before you shoot a single frame.

Docs aren't as different as you might think - good ones that is. You might not know the words but you better have the story before you start shooting - and it all scripted out.

There are those who just shoot an obscene amount of footage and figure it out later. That is a big mess. I worked on one that had close to 1300 hours of footage (over a few years). Was on a team of editors and when we got done several weeks later had to start over because the story the director wanted to tell did not exist in the footage. I think he thought that was a given by just rolling the cameras.

Wow! That is a mess. When that much footage is created, is it tagged sufficiently enough to make later editing easier, or do you have to watch it all as if you have no idea what's on it?

OK, so you've convinced me that the 80/20 rule better not apply in the making of a documentary.

So are you still in the editing business?

Indirectly - I supervise editors, among other things. More fun to be on the bitching end of it Always drove me crazy having the director or producer over my shoulder - so I try to be a nice guy with them.

Oops, didn't answer your question - no we had to log all that footage. Not like the producer/director wasn't experienced and qualified. Was camera op on some major films that I am sure everyone here has heard of. And no, I'm not telling