Phil Hellmuth says.......

Was watching the Bay 101 shooting star online and about 10 minutes ago Helmuth was talking about there not being a Aruba tournament this year. Then he said the Pros put it at 70% that online poker will be legalized adn then you will see someone like Harrahs or another casino group come in and buy the online sites. Any thoughts?

Maybe something like Cake, Carbon, Doyles, or a smaller site might get snapped up by a casino group, but I seriously doubt that either one of the big two (Full Tilt and PokerStars) will get bought.

PokerStars is way down the road of creating its own brand and working the WPT as an example of what can be done with on-line and B&M gaming.

I don't know that I agree with the 70% chance of online poker being legalized this year. I think that overestimates the likelihood it will be legalized. If it is eventually legalized, and I think it will be, I would expect many of the online poker sites to be acquired by brick and mortar casinos, who will want to jump-start their entry into the business.

If they make online poker legal.. this means no more FTP for US players?

**** that.

It's just talk. Phil likes to talk...

the online sites are probably worth more than the casinos... so probably not.. perhaps some will go.. but i cant see PS or FT selling up haha

Why would that be?

The big Casino's are worth much much more then FTP or PokerStars.

There's no way FTP makes more than the big ones in Vegas like the Belagio and Harrahs. Not only do they have poker, old ladies slot machines, and table games, they have hotels and events attached to them. FTP can't touch that.

Really?
I was just looking up estimated values of some of the bigger casinos. It led me to believe that Fulltilt would be worth more imo.

How much will FTP be worth as the FBI continues it's investigation?

I too dont think they can buy FT,PS or even UB...
They may buy carbon,cake etc....In fact FT and PS may buy out other small credential online poker sites...

What do you estimate Fulltilt to be worth? How much do you figure their annual revenues are? Last I heard, there was rumour that Fulltilt was worth in excess of $40billion & that was ~2yrs. ago.

Some info. re: casinos
"MGM Mirage's proposed $7.9bn buyout of Mandalay Resort Group"


"Harrah's operates 28 casinos with about 1.7 million sq ft of gaming space and 15,650 hotel rooms, while Caesars operates the same number of casinos with 2 million sq ft of gaming space and 26,000 hotel rooms. Between them, the groups have annual revenues of $9.4bn and cashflow of $2.3bn"

"In 2005 Harrah's Entertainment first quarter revenues were $1.26billion" < obviously outdated news but easily eclipsed by Fulltilt imo.

I don't know enough about US politics to predict if online poker will be made legal in america and when.
What I want to know is whether poker online poker will get significantly easier if this happens.
There may be a lot of fishy casual players who have been put off playing by these legal issues.

Hmm, where did you get that info poker orifice? Back in 04 before the US players got banned from party poker I know they maxed out at like 2.5billion in revenues. Not sure about FT's numbers today.

You gotta be kidding. Vegas is a big expensive trip, even for US players. Why would any of the players around the earth go to Vegas when they do the same for free at Full Tilt or Poker Stars, while just playing in their spare few hours each day? These sites have virtually no overhead by comparison, and probably thought wisely enough to set up where the taxes (if any) are negligible. Are the 2 biggies both out of the Isle of Man, or is that just PS?

Just a quick glimpse of how many tables FT & PS have going at any given time astronomically eclipse the number of players at any casino poker room, okay slot machines included. To boot, the casinos just don't offer the stakes at any given game online. Perhaps Bobby's Room (at the Bellagio???) might be an exception. Poker Orifice's numbers do not surprise me in the least.

But really, I saw Antonius playing Hansen for 10s of thousands per hand on FT - this was even while WSOP was going on last year, and they were both (finally) in Vegas.

I've tried to look up some numbers but can't really seem to find anything but I guess I stand corrected. I know that the big ones cannot possibly buy the full tilts and pokerstars of the world but i did think that there revenue from other games/hotels would make up the differance.

Nice one here theres so much going on! No more FTP for US players whats that about? Thats the only site I reall play on! Ive heard things from others and seen in the news about online gaming laws but I dont follow it much...might keep my eye here for awhile!

I get the feeling here that should online poker be legalised in the us, then it will only be to sites run and situated within the us.

The main reason for the ban in the first place was all the money left the country?

+1 to that. They don't have to maintain a whole Casino, just the virtual world/online security.

Well if online does become legalized the big casinos arent just going to ignore a possibility of new revenue, I think you guys are right, it is doubtful PS or FT will be sold, it would be like buying google.

I think that a few of the smaller sites will be bought off and upgraded, I think its possible that there could be a new 'big' site, casinos have the cash to afford commercial time and opening up to the united states about now legal online poker could be a goldmine, we could see some new fish swimming around!

Most likely if it does there will be a BUNCH of new sites offering huge bonuses to get in on the action.

I sure as hell hope so.
Please let this happen.

I would say you are correct.

yes how true.. i have thinking of poker only...

Well let me throw this into the mix. A Giant like Harrahs could afford to buy PS or Full Tilt. Plus they could allow you to cash out your online winnings at the casino.

For example (and this is definatly only a example LOL) Lets say I play the Sunday Millions and take 3rd place for 95k, and I want my money quicker than 15 business days, I could drive to a Harrahs owned Casino and cash out some or all of my winnings, It's more likely that someone would gamble some with their money if they cashout at the casino rather than get money in the mail.

I don't know why a big casino would even want to buy a site to begin with. Sure they'd be a bit behind to begin with if they started their own but why not just use their own brand and image to create one from scratch?

Legal, you could get a poker account atm card no more waiting on cash

The casinos would just get there own site/ software and put most of the smaller ones out O business

Not picking on you Numbah , but here's one more thing to consider... travel agencies (do the still exist? lol) used to offer Vegas packages for what didn't seem to cost much more than airfare. In Atlantic City, I get mail from several casinos (big ones like Bally's) offering rooms for as little as $29 - $39 a night.

As far as other extras, there is a bus that leaves to the Tropicana 2 blocks from me. Costs $22, they give you back $20 in cash when you get there, and a show (not the big headliner, this is the afternoon show, but it's always great), and a free $10 towards food or $10 off their huge buffet. For the month of Feb, they were even giving you an extra $5 back, so you make money on the deal.

I'm long-winded here, but my point is that casinos aren't interested in profits from the hotel, food and entertainment - they probably break even, or even sustain a slight loss. These are items they are eager to 'comp' you with, to keep you going and staying there as long and frequently as possible - things that sweeten the pot. You can only see so many shows and eat so much. They don't want you leaving the table. That's why drinks are free too (another loss for them initially), but they like you good and drunk.