PF limpers

I play in $2 MTTs, mostly with big fields.

Early position limpers should be re - termed as LIMPETS because I can't get rid of them!

When I enter a pot PF my normal bet is 3 x BB plus one extra BB for every limper.

Situation.

9 player table, frist hand, we all have 1,500 chips.

4 limpers at 20 each, total pot = 100

I am in BB with KK.

I bet 140 and they all call, total pot = 700

Flop comes 259 rainbow.

I bet 400 and 2 guys reraise me allin.

I call and find out I was up against A9 and 55.

I come across this type of situation quite often.

What is the answer?

I think you played it well whether it was the first hand or not. Later in the tourney with some info on them and the possibility of players knowing you're decent it's obviously a different story and you might consider folding to a very tight player who might have trips.

What's you're alternatives here? Not many imo, other than the fact you might have one of those player's trip on you occasioinaly. Say you push all-in against a table full of limpers, which I don't recommend , I'm just going through your one possible alternative unless you want to limp in, which I'm totally against but what do I know. Ok so you push pre-flop and recieve little in return if somehow they do all fold their PPs and Ace/rag/good kicker. If they don't you're basically in the same situation you are when calling the all-in on the flop. You have to call there and imo be glad its early in the tournament and possibly a quick double-up against a table full of mediocre players which you'll definitely need to make it the next few hours and reach ITM against them. That's just me. Maybe limping is a better idea in these micro-buyins and someone can back that up with some good advice.

Thanks for the feedback, I agree with everything you say.

Much better to be knocked out within 15 mins than on the bubble after 2 hrs.

The sample hand I gave doesn't allways work out that way ofcourse, quite often after the flop, I make my bet and take it away. Other times I make my bet and get reraised by top pair with an A,K or Q kicker. As long as there is not an Ace on the flop, like yourself, i will take my chances against possible trips.

I can understand why the 3rd and 4th limpers call the reraise, they now have value to call with their pocket pairs. But it beggars belief how often the domino effect comes into play all because UTG1 decides to call!

Two years back, I got so fed up with all the callers early in a tournament, that I experimented with the prime hand allin strategy. Unfortunately I didn't find the game very mentally rewarding at that time so had to revert back to normality very quickly.

As you have said, later in a tournament it is a different kettle of fish, and to allways be wary of possible trips. Also later in a tournament your 3 x BB PF bet is very unlikely to be called by four or more players.

Talk about limping in micro - buyins, you would be amazed how often in the first 15mins of play, all nine players have limped in!

If I am playing on a limping pre flop table, I might limp with all sorts of cards, but I am sure as hell not calling a substantial raise with my small pocket pair or an Ace rag from early position!

You would also be amazed how many players limp with AA, KK or QQ and then only call a raise, almost as if they want as many players in the pot as possible. Some of them have no idea just how much their odds depreciate with all these callers.

My whole point being - I only want 1 or 2 callers both of whom I can give credit for some sort of hand PF.

$5 SNGs at stars

I asked a similar question here. Maybe some of the replies will be helpful.

sometimes you just got to know when your beat...most players are 2 stubborn to even figure it out sometimes and just think well I had a good preflop hand, but that doesn't always mean you can beat the board with your pocket pair...hope this helps

Thanks for that, I read all the replies and mostly the advice to your post about limpers in STTs not MTTs, was pretty similar to what I actually do.
There was a couple of interesting posts about joining the limp with suited connectors and hoping to flop a monster, this is a strategy I employ from time to time.


This could help alot, especially if you can explain your post flop play from the example given? I would be very interested in hearing how you would have played the whole hand PF, and after the flop especially how from your betting, you come to the conclusion your KK is no good.

Many Thanks.

sometimes a hand like KK is just a curse, especially in the first hand of a small buy-in. i know its just your example, but i know exactly what you mean. 10-20 hands in, you have an idea who's gonna hang on to whatever crap they hold...who's check-calling with nuts and/or nothing. who's playing every single hand, who's calling everything short of all-in on their bb. who's a maniac. but first hand...and you got nothin on anybody...no tellin....the only tell i get is they just "call"...all you can do is take notes for another time. but what are you to do...first hand...KK, there's a 5 on the flop and you raised that much preflop...who woulda thought 55 is gonna call...well, i guess its not that surprising. problem with that is position being on the bb. i probably, in that tourney, have bet much less post-flop...because you'll get a little better read...its not likely someone's called with a hand that's droppin 2 pair. so you have top-pair guy, and small pocket pair guy who are gonna bet like mad...and there's idiot guy who "thinks" you have AK and just called and hit mid-pair...hoping you stop with the c-bets so he can pot bet you.

The thing is that most people would prefer to be in as many hands as possible. They want to see a flop and maybe get lucky. But mostly they want to play. Folding hand after hand, with patience and discipline, is not much fun. They are playing to have fun. So they limp.

It takes awhile, sometimes a long while, to realize that losing over and over is not much fun. But a lot of people, I think, don't play long enough or often enough to care. And, even when they do care, the pull of playing a lot of hands is still very strong.

I've played live games, too, where it's considered kind of unfriendly to raise preflop. Or not to be in nearly every hand. I'm talking about in a casino! It makes it fairly easy to come out ahead at a table like this -- but you do not make friends (unless you lose in a friendly way occasionally and are really sympathetic.) Online, it doesn't matter as much if you are the shark (I wish I were the shark...) But realize that a lot of lower limit players think like this, like they are in an easy-peasy home game with pals.

Bottom line is that many players at low limit tourneys are playing a fun, friendly game. They are not playing to win. They are just playing. When you play properly, enough of them will call you to reduce your odds of winning dramatically. You will likely have an edge throughout the game, if luck is on your side. Just accept that many players are not playing smart. They are just playing.

I have played many $2 MTTs and can tell you you get all kinds of players in them. You get a lot of the guys that call with anything and some that think because they have an ace that they're way ahead of everyone and call or reraise. I also think you played the hand the way you should have. You have to play the monster hands hard and later in the tourney figure out how the other guys are playing.

I play a lot of micro ring games and there is no respect for any raising pre-flop(most of the time).In this situation i will limp most of the time with ok hands,not with AA KK QQ Ak AQ JJ 1010.i know i can out play them after the flop.

I do not get involved in any big hands unless i have a great hand and the best situation in these micro stakes is those that do not like to fold,or raise every hand.Just have to sit back and wait.

Lazmansa

I recently played on UB and I have the same problem playing .05-.10 NL. I feel that you made the right play in your sample hand. I normally like to limp with AK,AQ because I can try and get away from set and st8 draws too.

Nice posts Ted80, Doops, Lektrikguy and Lazmansa, you all understand where I am coming from, and have encountered the limper problems.

It seems we all counter the problem the same way.

Mostly my size of PF bet thins them out, but it is damned annoying when four or more call! I don't suppose there is anything we can do about it except carry on the way we do.

At the end of the day, these guys making bad PF calls put the Jam on our bread and butter.

Lektrikguy - I have sat on the same table as you a couple of times. I don't use any poker aids so I can't look up my notes. I do believe my main note was "plays in a similar style to me".

GL at the tables guys.

.. i think that alot of players dont like to raise in first few hands, cause they wnat to figure out other players before giving alot of chips in to the pot...but if your gettng it all in after flop with this situation, then i wouldnt complain if people are limping in and getting in huge trouble..

LMFAO.... So when these limpers find out you do have a good hand PF they still call! Your post is a contradiction, IMO.

Ther just aren't any right answers to avoid the early stage limpers, and then they push with anything. I get fed up regular and fold a lot of hands that later I would call or reraise with. Hang in there and sooner or later it pays off.