Is online poker rigged??? An investigation!

unfortunatly true hehe

Dream I think qualifies as a big site. Right this minute there are 16,000 connected and 10.000 seated. The $1000 freerolls (3 a day) fill up to thier 12,000 player limit during the day within 45 minutes or so.

I have also been left amazed and stunned by some of the bad beats Ive seen (and taken) there. But in its defense, I have also won big there.

Point is here and in keeping with the thread, that poker sites make an incredible amount of money from rakes. Why in the world would a savy business kill the geese that lay the golden eggs (us)?

Mechanical shuffling of cards is a far different thing than a random generation of hands. You see more weirdness simply because you see more hands. A tourney of 12,000 will take days to play in real, but only hours online.

And Beriac...The house isnt operating on odds....the rake schedule is fixed...the only luck they have one way or the other is how many wager how much.

If I didnt live in the US...hell I'd be trying to run one of these cash cows

online poker,not rigged,blackjack,there is a surrender button

I have heard of the software out there that given enough data on hands and players and such that it can predict what cards are gonna be dealt...is this the datamining software i keep reading about??

Realistically, the sites arent rigged, IMHO, but the RNGs and such could be tweaked a little considering the volume of people playing nowadays. not sure if they are or it would help...just my op.

One thing for sure that doesnt help is the maniac play of some idiots online...calling 4K allin to with bottom pair on flop to hit another on river....
calling 4 allins with A4 off....3 allins with 22...and those hands hitting or holding up...

I know most people call it GAMBLING....but most people call it Stoooopidity also...

just my 2 cents

Can't really say if it's a glich in the RNG or rigged.I just know playing the freeroll qualifiers at some site just don't seem right.I make the final table 75% of the time, play stong hands and seem to not make the finish.Am I playing bad?I dont think so, I mean I've made it through the all in idiots,got through the lucky ones,played smart all the way and in 3 to 4 hands be out?I don,t know,just seems funny to me.

The main reason this thread is still alive is because both LNP and LEP, the 2 predominant methods of "dealing" hands are both noncompositional binary algorythms - both are forms of rigging, in the view of many experts in the field of gaming

Lol, come on be truthful, do you even know what you just wrote, or did you just go find that off Wikipedia??

HEY DUDE HOW CAN I RESEARCH THIS FURTHER GOOGLE IS NO HELP

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boy .. for someone who is wondering you sure are very curious.... I would consult someone who is directly involved in the area of game development in the area, versus a dimwit like me... Im sure I dont have the exact terminology.. but it really is not worth my time (which is pretty much worthless) .. and its probably not worth yours (but who am I to say what is or isnt a waste of your time) .. but thats where I would go for further clarification... of course, you could google more aggressively I guess and you would get there... whatever... its not worth another sentence from this end

Good article! I'd have to say i agree with you! I'll have to let my dad read it, cause jokingly when he loses he says....Must be rigged!!!!!

i was 99% sure online poker wasn't rigged until yesterday night, i get pocket kings, the hand after i just had pocket kings. then tonight same thing happens again. never thought poker was rigged but after seeing what i saw im suspicious. oh and it was at full tilt.

wow i was sceptical too but i'm definitely convinced now!

That is proof....

god guys, so cynical!

I can't believe I've missed this thread. Had a good laugh in many points of it and didn't even read all the posts, they're too many.

Pokersites being rigged is something you hear all the time, for one reason or another. I'm by no means an expert on computers and programs, so I lack the necessary knowledge to defend one side or the other. I play a pretty good amount of online poker, not crazy numbers (avg. about 10/15 hours per week) or high stakes, and I've seen a decent amount of bad beats, like everyone has here. I don't have pokertracker, so I'm not able to analyze the hands that I've played for statistical or randomness purposes, nor have I ever played NLHE live, either in B&M casinos or home games. The only live game I've played is 5-card draw. Consequently, I don't have enough experience to say that live games feature less bad beats than online. I wouldn't know if thats true or not.

Here is what I do know. When I've watch major events on tv in plenty occasions I've seen some pretty bad beats. I'm not going to list them since they're too many. But I've seen them all, like AK losing to AQ, JJ losing to 88, etc. The other night I saw Chip Reese suck out twice Andy Bloch, HU, for the $50.000 buyin H.O.R.S.E tournament, which is widely regarded as the most prestigious bracelet. Chip Reese is considered the worlds best all-around cash player, yet he needed 2 huge suckouts to take it down. When I get knocked out of a tournament with a bad beat I think of those on tv, where the stakes are much higher, and mine looks irrelevant and quite frankly very possible.

Here is what I also know. I've been playing online real money for about 6 months now. I've not made a killing but I'm not losing (about $800 ahead). While I do remember the bad beats, I also have to say that I've sucked out plenty times also, and I'm certainly not in any form of partnership with pokerstars, when I win the monies are mine, suckout or not. In honesty I do remember many more bad beats than suckouts, but this is definitely consistent with my tight-ass style of play (remember I'm a beginner, so very TAG), and I rarely play turbos. So when the money goes in I'm ahead in the hand way more often than not, hence its only natural that the bad beat/suckout ratio is tilted toward the first.

Here is what, at times, admittedly I have wondered. Big tournaments such as the Sunday million and similar: can we be sure that the house doesn't have several "added" players in there, distributed throughout the tables, that reach the money or even the FT giving them a good chunk of the prize money? As I stated I'm not an expert on computers, but could such a sofisticated program exist? I have to be honest and admit that I've wondered this a few times, perhaps this is also fueled by my total ignorance on the subject. Its just that it seems to me as something they could easily get away with, because a few bad beats here and there mean absolutely nothing, it wouldn't raise any red flags. Furtermore, tourneys like the SM have a pretty rapid pace (a little over 500 players knocked out every hour, in avg), with tables breaking frequently. It would be very hard to notice a group of "players" getting premium hands too often. And no, I'm not drunk right now. This is only pure speculation on my part, with no evidence whatsoever.

One more note. There are plenty of offshore sportsbooks (I use one of these to bet football games) that offer to their customers online casino games such as craps, blackjack, 3 card poker, slots etc. The one that I wager my games with also offers these. They advertize a payback of 98%, distributed, of course, randomly. The 2% goes to the house. This, to me, sounds like a pretty sofisticated system (if its true). So, if this can exist, the other potentially could too. Again, just speculating.

In the end it all comes down to "if you don't trust, don't play". Up until today I have no reason to believe its rigged, even if I can't 100% exclude that in some way, shape or form, it might be. I was kind of shocked when I read here that most sites have not allowed gaming engine to be examined by an independant outside authority, if this is true.



P.S. The member that plays fake money and calls it rigged had me laughing with tears. Rigged for playchips? That is soooooo hilarius. Definitely a new one for me, I've only heard it from real money players so far.

The flop cards are determined after the initial bets are made. Its pretty obvious. Once in a while they throw in a hand that misses the flop, but very rarely. MICROGAMING POKER IS ESPECIALLY RIDICULOUS AS HAS BEEN MENTIONED IN THIS THREAD. I simply have a few questions to ask, and if you can answer them within reason, maybe Ill think twice about it being rigged.
How can MICROGAMING POKER hold and COMPLETE a free roll with upwards of 12000 players in under 4 hours each and every time?
Are there never any hands that are not playable? Are there ever any deals where QQ doesnt run into AK, for a race?
Does high card EVER win a hand at Microgaming, if both players dont hold a pocket pair?
Why oh why does nearly EVERY SINGLE BOARD create an all in from someone, with a call from someone else?
And Im talking HEADS UP HERE.
MICROGAMING IS A COMPLETE DISGRACE TO POKER. AS ARE MOST OF THE ONLINE SITES OUT THERE.
They rig tourneys to get players on to the next tourney fee. They rig cash games to guarantee lots of action. Period.

This does not compute.

Of course, I mean money games when I refer to tourney fees. Free roll was an example of how they clear a 12000 player free roll so fast. How do they do that? Action cards, thats how. How is it that every time one player gets pocket queens and goes all in, someone always has AK? There must be the odd occassion where the pocket queens would just take the blinds, but I very rarely see that at MICROGAMING.
Just go watch an hour of play there. Im completely convinced its rigged. But Im also a winning player online. Ive predicted way too often exactly when Im going out of a tourney pre flop.
I know part of poker, blah blah, and I agree to an extent. But not to the extent that it occurs online. I really could care less what everyone else thinks as well, I just stick to the free rolls now.
If you saw what happened at G2G poker with the 2 bucks they gave me to try the site, you would have no recourse but to think the player I lost the money too was a house player, or else the cards are rigged.
I played AK and A 10 with pre flop raises each time, and I lost twice to calls with QK and A 7, AND I HIT WITH MY DOMINANT CARD BOTH FLOPS. THATS RIGHT, HE FLOPPED A FULL HOUSE WITH QK, AND HE TURNED TRIP SEVENS WITH ACE SEVEN AFTER CALLING MY ALL IN ACE TEN, FLOP OF 2-7-10.
If you wanna say hey, thats poker, then thats fine with me. But, I know the truth.

ok why could freerolls last longer thn real money games hmmmmmm im really struggling here COZ THE PLAYERS IN THEM ARE BAD PLAYERS maybe tht it i dunno

im going to start making & marketing designer tinfoil hats.

sign me up for 10

That is it, for all you who think poker is rigged.....I PUT UPON YOU THE CURSE OF "IMPOTENCE"

To be released of the curse you have to subject yourself to a Cleveland steamer and have the pics posted in the general forum

Attached Images

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And yet you are here. Posting.

haha irexes, it's funny how the most succinct comebacks are the best

I also know the truth...YOU SUCK AT POKER...now thats the truth

Great.... now I have the X files song in my head.


I'll take 10 foil hats as well.

I also know the truth...YOU SUCK AT POKER...now thats the truth

Always some poker site peon that comes in and starts talking shit. Yeah, I wait to play dominant hands because I suck at poker, you idiot. Oh, thats right, you do have a job, you come to these forums and start talking shit. HAHAHAHA. Dumbass. Play you anytime anywhere.
Tonight, guess what? I raise AQ suited, ONE CALLER, flop the ace of course, I BET IT HARD SON, he calls me with ace two, HAHAHAHAHAHA after a pre flop raise that he could NOT afford, and in the oh so random world of online poker, guess what the very next card is? You got it, superstar, a two. Wow, the last 4 hands that I have dominated online, have gotten beaten, after I was ahead, with the money in the pot. And you come here and say I suck at poker? HAHAHAHA that must be why Im a sponsored online player, they only use players that suck. Get a job sweetie.

ok why could freerolls last longer thn real money games hmmmmmm im really struggling here COZ THE PLAYERS IN THEM ARE BAD PLAYERS maybe tht it i dunno


Do you have ANY idea what you are talking about? At least the other replies have a sense of intelligence about them. Well, cept for the poker site peon there.
I once heard a guy say that wrestling was rigged. But I fixed him, I yelled back at him, NO, YOU JUST SUCK AT WRESTLING. HAHAHAHAHAHA

I see they must be scraping the bottom of the barrel and if they sponsor you, then I take it any monkey can get sponsorship........Mods.....help me I can't stop myself from telling this PRO(termed loosely)where to take his/her poker knowledge and put it.......g-night.
My main problem is that I have a problem with ppl coming to this forum and saying that online poker is rigged, the do it over and over again and still don't quit playing, like if you really think it's rigged.....QUIT PLAYING, it's that simple.
I have nothing more to say on this subject except that my beliefs stand firm, if you are getting sucked out time and time again then its time YOU re-evaluate your game.
Time to ignore you now.

I bow down to your sample size of four hands and your leet online sponsor contract.

Three questions for you:

1. Am I correct in understanding that you played at a Microgaming site tonight, despite already being utterly convinced that they rig their program?

2. And then come here and complain about four bad beats?

3. Also, why is a "sponsored online player" trying to get by on $2 that he gets for free from a poker site?

One question for the rest of you:

1. Why do I post in this thread?

To answer you Question FP, your a post whore...

lol

lol

On this weeks first episode of poker after dark Mike Matusow made acomment about how good players never win online. He was talking toShawn Sheikan about how he and David Benyamine never win playingonline poker because they are good players. This is the exactly howthe conversation happened:Mike (to Sheik): me and David never winonline, we are like the biggest online jokes that ever walked theearthSheik : you know why you guys loseMike : because we are goodplayers...and all they do is go click click click and BOOM, itrandomly hits a miracleSheik : that's alot of common sense you gotMike, good players always lose right?Mike : good players never winonline I guess Mike just sucks at poker.