Is online poker rigged??? An investigation!

And if there's even the slightest statistical anomaly after a few thousand hands, people will notice, and no place spreads rumours as quickly as the internet, means no more hands, means no bets, means no rake=NO MONEY. GET IT or do we have to go to basic common sense 101?

So again i am playing some pokerstars,just for stat tracking purposes really.High chips at a table keeps going all in but no one will call,9 man tounrey but at this point 4 left,so finally after his 8th all in i decide fug it i'll call he can't be having hands all these times.I have king and ten he shows 5 and 2 preflop,flops 4 K 4,as soon as it does that on a whim i thought well its been a conservative table for awhile,no one gettign knocked out,so odds are those last two cards will go 6 and 3,only half serious but the way the amazing 4th and river come constantly for chip leader at a table the thought came immediately,Next flop 6 and i am already laughing thinking yep,last card floss 3.I mean its so bad,and so integrity embarassingly rigged that I can predict the last two cards that will flop at a pretty high rate.I truly feel embarassed for all you defenders of that site.I mean its pitiful that any person can be on a level thats so naive that they can't see something that is just so basic common sense.I mean even by basic percentages its obvious big hits come for chips leaders at as huge rate thats beyond unheard of at a real table.I mean people say oh yeah you see the terrible beats cause so many people call,funny things is i am seeing beats just like this one mentioned coming constanty with only 2 people in the hand.Its easy to see how pokerstars stays in business.You guys said they can't rig it cause people would quit and no one would go back.But the fact it is rigged and the fact you guys refuse to believe it is why they do it and get away with it.

Wow i as i am writing this another doozy lol.High chips raising heavy pre flop every hand,call with king a queen on suit,flops king 5 Queen,he al ins,i am thinking oh yeah tried to bluff me off the pot i got him,his flop its a 2 and 7 off suit.Yep caught him bluffing ,4th card flops 2,only thing on river that can bail him out is another 2....river 2,wow amazing ,all day long the miracle bail outs for bad high chips bets and peopeljust flat out refuse to accpet it or see it.Its like everyones walking around with permanent blind folds on.Not sure whats more embarassing.the sites integrity or being people who religiously defend that crap lol.

The previous hand you mentioned like this you "misremembered" when challenged. I think you are making this up.

Post some hand histories.

PokerStars code did have a problem a few yrs bck because i got dealt jj of clubs this wasnt a prob with shuffle rather a software glitch tht caused the crds to be shown to me wrong so does happen but pokerstars got enuff money to make sure it not regular

You know what else is rigged? Live poker, oh yes, LIVE poker. I was playing the other night and I was dealt pp Aces, Kings, Queens and Jacks at least 3 times each in 4 hours time. Not only that but almost every time I had two suited cards I would get a flush and every time I had connected cards I'd get a straight. I seriously couldn't lose. Won $500 in 4 hours at a 1/2NL table. It had to have been rigged in my favor. Don't know why they chose me but I'm glad they did.

i get a kick out of how people say "well it happens in live play to" not every day,on ever table every 3rd hand or so does a 13% or less river beat happen in live play.You might have one day thats like wow alot of bad beats today,on Poker stars its every day,every table,24/7,consistent for years.All in preflops especially are usually loaded with dramatics,player A is way ahead on the flop,player B needs a miracle on the 4th and 5th to take it,and wow it comes for the incredible comeback,this crap unfolds so often that its insane.I got river beat today on 2 flushes and a straight within 5 hands of each other by the same seat with just us 2 in for the river.both times on the flush i had it by 4th card but the river dealt a 4th of the suit and he had the ace in the suit both times.and the straight he got me with to put me out 8 9 10 flop i have JQ and all in what i had left after he beat my 2 flushes,he calls with jack king,river deals a queen to cancel out my straight and give him the king high,rediculous,You guys say oh you can't go by one bad beat,hello lol,its multiple bad beats coming every table,every day,against me and numerous others on the table and favoring the high chips at an amazing rate.When its just a river outdraw yeah it seems to go either way,but on the severe bad beats,when a player has to have a certain card on both the 4th and the river to win it.90% of those hands the higher chips is the one who gets it,thats fact and no one could in good conscience or complete honesty say they don't see it fall like that when i been watching it consistently for years now.

Show some numbers, already. PokerTracker stats, something like that.

Please use it. ty

OMG!! Here's another Pokerstars rigged tourney!! 6 ACES!!



Now, I'm a graphic designer, even with my half-ass skills, I can doctor the picture to look convincing enough. I'm not saying they are not rigged-- online poker in general. There are two type of online poker players; Those who believe it's rigged, those who don't.

Suppose if other online poker room found out about this pict(which I believe they have), which has been circulating on the internet for the longest time. Why did they report them to the authorities and shut them down? Maybe the off-shore government their server is residing in, is rigged too.

It's something like crop circles... you'll never find out if it's indeed done by the aliens or by a bunch of pranksters who get a kick out of people like you, believing in what ever shit(pardon the strong word) they decide to dish out to you.

Then again, maybe those who don't believe it's rigged are being had by the poker rooms. We'll never know.

There's a problem with the original "5 aces" photo you linked to. I've searched for another pokerstar screen shot on the internet, and found something disturbing about the pictures. have a look at this two, tell me what you find odd about them.

The normal one first:


The 5 aces screen shot



I know the pictures are a little big, but bear with me. In your mind, you strongly believe that online poker room has a reason to rig the games. Right, that's your opinion. Look at this and the text I've inserted in the photo.




Now, anyone who's done programming for a game before, knows that the cards are made of sprites, called upon, they're animated or placed onto the screen. Utilizing coordinates, X and Y axis, they should always line up properly. In this case, the Ace club is off.... It's a rigged photo, IMHO. Also, the shadow underneath the Ace club is too thick, suggesting that another layer of card has been overlaid on top.

Nuff said, I'm going back to my game. Take this with a pinch of salt, I'm not saying it's rigged or not.

night.

Funny how both have player MiketheKid2.. Anyways

I noticed the misaligned ace the first time I saw this pic. This just confirms my belief that this is BS

no way i'm going to read all that lol! so yeah what he/she said!

aaaah the sky is falling

Three free play tournies,eliminated from every single one the same exact way.Chip leader on each table raising often on just about everything so i fold out and just wait for a hand.Finally catch pockets and push in with queens,he shows ten and ace,the flop is dry,4th card nothing,and right then i said yep ace on the river,boom ace on the river,played in two more free plays this morning same result,loss pocket jacks to ace and 3 all in call by tables chip leader with an ace on the river.The last one similar set up with kings against ace 5 ,stays dry up to fourth card and i even laughed and said and heres your river ace,boom it comes lol.I laughed so hard almost shot my coffee out my nose by that time seeign the same thing happen third straight tourney.It would almost kind of be some what sort of believable if each time it happened it wasn't to chips leader of the table,and if the ace had come on initial flop or at least once on 4th to change it up some what.The fact that the beat always came to chips leader always on the river,always with matching up his ace to beat my high pockets in three straight tournies says enough for me.Not just for today this just goes along with all he bogus stuff i been mentioning from this week and has been happening consistenly for years now,every day on every table.I am 100% positive you guys have never ever played live play and thats why you have trust in the site cause you have no other percentages to compare it to.Other then pros who became pros cause they won buy ins to WSOP through the pokerstars site,you will not find one other pro who believs pokerstars or any other online site flops anything close to the way real decks do.Theres a small handful of pros who endorse this site,every single one of them is paid by the site wouldn't be pros if the site hadn't catapulted them there so of course they are going to suck up to pokerstars.Ask any other pro unassociated with the site is he thinks online poker sites fall at similar percenatges to live play and he'll laugh at you and ask if you are joking,wouldn't even give you the satisfaction of answering that one.Seriously any one of you who are close to where they have the big live play tournies,go attend one and ask any pro aside from Moneymaker and Raymner what they think of online poker and watch the reaction.This kind of bogus nonsense is a joke to people who really know poker and are to intelligent to be fooled when the percentages of the way it flops are way out of whack.If you'll notice 95% of the pros don't touch this site cause they know better.The casual gamers are the ones who come in full force defending the site cause they have no real clue about odds and percentages.Its the facts.If any of you were anything even resembling a pro player,95% of you wouldn't play their either cause you'd know better.Ignorance is bliss i guess.

that's because they are stupid computer illiterate ****s. please stfu this is quite annoying.

I play live most weeks and have seen all sorts of crazy hands.

You've posted hand histories that you admit you got wrong.

You've posted pictures as PROOF! it's rigged which have been shown to be fake (which you haven't acknowledged as being wrong).

Your "evidence" is of individual hands and makes no statistical case whatsoever.

You PLAY PLAY MONEY!!!!! and you claim we don't know what we are talking about.

You claim to have played every day for years on sites you say are rigged.

And you've insulted people here.

You are either stupid or a troll. Probably both.

What happens when the read squares get to 5? Do they change colour?

there is only 1 way to find out

And aces never win. The screenshot is from mid-January up to today. On PokerStars as it were. Unfortunately I haven't had any quints (that would be one more ace than quads).

Dan, I'll humor you because I have nothing better to do. There's one - and only one - good way for you to prove your point: Find a statistic, preferably one that is easily spotted in PokerTracker, and tell us what value it SHOULD be. Then we can all go and check our databases and see if the value differs over a large sample of hands. If it does deviate from the norm, you will have proven your point.

Good luck with that.

Attached Images

rockets_never_win.jpg (9.0 KB, 82 views)

97% vpip with AA? because you slowplayed from bb once, or what?

Folks,

This happened to me tonight on Stars. I'm beginning to see where Dan's coming from! It also happened a couple of nights ago as well when I had KK and someone called my all-in with A7o. The board was 3456x.

Is it rigged? Who knows, but I think something is definitely starting to smell here!



Table '45270996 1' 9-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: ypsi_eagle (1690 in chips)
Seat 2: 193ibluff (1855 in chips)
Seat 4: Expando (7735 in chips)
Seat 5: weevel (685 in chips)
Seat 6: aalover (940 in chips)
Seat 7: TTJ75 (925 in chips)
weevel: posts small blind 50
aalover: posts big blind 100
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to weevel [Ac Ah]
TTJ75: folds
ypsi_eagle: raises 250 to 350
193ibluff: folds
Expando: folds
weevel: raises 250 to 600
aalover: folds
ypsi_eagle: raises 250 to 850
weevel: calls 85 and is all-in
*** FLOP *** [7s Kd 9c]
*** TURN *** [7s Kd 9c] 6♥
*** RIVER *** [7s Kd 9c 6h] 5♦
*** SHOW DOWN ***
weevel: shows [Ac Ah] (a pair of Aces)
ypsi_eagle: shows [Kh 8h] (a straight, Five to Nine)
ypsi_eagle collected 1470 from pot



POKERSTARS GAME #8901499342: TOURNAMENT #45267631, $5.00+$0.50 HOLD'EM NO LIMIT - LEVEL III (25/50) - 2007/03/14 - 16:27:43 (ET)
Table '45267631 2' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: Spadesboss (2740 in chips)
Seat 2: cford5 (1140 in chips)
Seat 5: Chubud (1035 in chips)
Seat 6: weevel (2010 in chips)
Seat 7: Atwater (1945 in chips)
Seat 8: nicegurl1199 (1725 in chips)
Seat 9: Bigsmoothron (1045 in chips)
Chubud: posts small blind 25
weevel: posts big blind 50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to weevel [Ah Ac]
Atwater: folds
nicegurl1199: folds
Bigsmoothron: raises 400 to 450
Spadesboss: folds
cford5: calls 450
Chubud: folds
weevel: raises 400 to 850
Bigsmoothron: raises 195 to 1045 and is all-in
cford5: calls 595
weevel: calls 195
*** FLOP *** [4s 8h 6s]
weevel: bets 50
cford5: calls 50
*** TURN *** [4s 8h 6s] 7♣
weevel: bets 50
cford5: calls 45 and is all-in
*** RIVER *** [4s 8h 6s 7c] 9♥
*** SHOW DOWN ***
weevel: shows [Ah Ac] (a pair of Aces)
cford5: shows [Js Ts] (a straight, Seven to Jack)
cford5 collected 190 from side pot
Bigsmoothron: shows [As Kh] (high card Ace)
cford5 collected 3160 from main pot

Weevel.

Toss a coin 100 times.

Write down whether it's heads or tails.

You will get at least one run of 7 heads or tails in a row.

Chance 7 in a row 128-1!!!!!!!!!
OMG coins are r1!!!!1GGGEed!!!

Aces get beaten exactly as often as they are supposed to.

OMG ACES LOST CALL THE BAD BEAT POLICE

HOLY **** COINS ARE RIGGED TOO? what is this world coming to.....

I'm not whingeing because my aces got beaten. I know aces get beaten. I'm not even calling it a bad beat. I'm just pointing out the four to a straight on the board each time. Or didn't you all notice that?!

Absolutely got that. But how Aces get beat and whether it's on the flop turn or river doesn't matter in the slightest and is certainly not evidence of any rigging.

Weevel - I've had my AA, gone all-in in one of the Titan freeroll, knocked out by a straight 1 out of the money. Last 2-3 weeks has been horrible, Ace trips, two pairs, flush, AA, KK, got beat by people river-ing flushes, straights, trips...etc.

I can just shrug it off as bad luck, or accuse the poker sites of rigging the game.

Try this experiment- play like a donk for a few days, chase your flush, straight whatever... check your results and see if you luck out more or lose according to statistics.

Try walking in the donk's shoes and maybe you'll realise that most often than not, you won't hit your flush by the river or gutshot draw. Only a good player get bad beats... The donks only get lucky once in a while.

I was wondering about that too, but realized that it had to be four times where everyone folded to my BB. I don't slowplay aces in the big blind, really.

lies. when you're thinking on the 42nd and 58th levels you do.

Yeah, but I was on the phone, watching TV and posting on CC at the time, so I was only thinking on the 41st level.

LOL, that's almost worse than multi-tabling. Guess you should just be happy you didn't accidentally fold AA in the BB in an unraised pot.

Whats wrong with that???? Its a value fold right? Since they ALWAYS lose???

Nice post, if online poker is rigged then so iare live poker games, because on occasion i see more bad beats in live games then i see online.
Peace

The shame of this whole deal is that the online poker sites could, if they wanted, end all of this speculation. However, they have elected not to do this. They have the power, if they really wanted, to put an end to any speculation about the legitimacy of the online gaming experience. And let’s be very honest – most of the top B&M players that I know are skeptical of the online poker sites and will not play their with their own money. This includes some of the very best players around. These are not people who are being paid to shill for online sites (and even those do not play with their own money – they play their minimum appearance tourneys with house money).

I think I have heard all of the arguments AGAINST online rigging. There are basically 8 that I count. Let’s list them and review them. Here they are – the 8 reasons people give you why online poker isn’t rigged – let’s list them and take a critical look at them and see which of them, if any, hold any water. Basically, here’s the list:

1) The Loser
2) Mission Impossible
3) The Public Company
4) Nothing to be Gained
5) So Much to Lose
6) The Black Box
7) More Hands = More Goofy Shit
8) The Leap of Faith

Of these, as you will see, after putting these under a microscope, only #8 holds any water.

1) THE LOSER – it goes something like this: “you’re just a sore loser and if you were winning you wouldn’t say this.” Frankly, I’m not, but really it doesn’t really make any difference. I have quite a few final table appearances to my credit in $1,000 or higher buy-in national/international events including WPT and WSOP. My total deposits to online poker rooms are less than 1/1,000,000 of my net worth, so even if I lost every single hand, it would be irrelevant. Just because I am willing to take a look at it or have a skeptical outlook, doesn’t mean I’m a loser.
2) MISSION IMPOSSIBLE – this defense tries to convince you that fixing a poker program would be the equivalent of splitting atoms. This is a poker program – we aren’t enriching uranium! I’m not a computer programmer, but I know quite a few, including a couple who specialize in computer games. They assure me that making something happen in a poker program is basically programming 101. If they wanted 3-8 off to beat AA every time, this would be easily done in the context of a program without adjusting the output of a random number generator.
3) THE PUBLIC COMPANY – this is a relatively new one that seems to have popped up as though it has been fed to the masses like some kind of mantra. It ranks very high up on the laugh meter. The way this goes is that by telling you that the poker site is owned by or run by, or somehow connected to a publicly traded company in England or somewhere on some stock exchange, that this somehow is some indicia of honesty. Somehow we are supposed to believe that association with a publicly traded company means there is less chance of dishonesty. Unless you’ve been living in a cave for the last 20 years or are too young to know the difference, you should understand that having something to do with a public company doesn’t mean anything. In fact, the argument can be made that it is more likely to be a sham, rather than less. Does the word ENRON ring a bell? Publicly traded. Auditors said everything was okay. Massive fraud. The whole company was a huge fraud. How about Fannie Mae? This is actually a pseudo-governmental agency which trades as a publicly traded company. 4 years of bogus financial statements, all okayed by the auditors. More fraud. I could go on and on with a litany of literally thousands of public companies who have either been convicted of fraud or who have settled before being convicted. Case closed
4) NOTHING TO BE GAINED – here’s some of the meat of the anti-rig arguments. Basically, they whine something like “why would they ever want to do that? What would they ever have to gain by doing it?” Ummmmm. Let me take one guess. Ummmmm….. MORE MONEY? Actually, they have nothing to gain by determining outcomes ahead of time, and from what I hear, they don’t. But they do have much to gain from doing one thing. Lets for the sake of simplicity divide players into 2 groups. Winners and losers. Money flows from the hands of the weak to the hands of the strong. It doesn’t do this in a straight line. And it doesn’t go directly from the weakest to the strongest. It goes in a chain much like the food chain in an ocean. It goes in and out like the tide, moving in one direction, then another, then back.. and so on and so on, like the tide. Then it moves from one level to the next that way, and from that level to the next higher level in that same way. The online casinos know the same thing that land based casinos know with their slots. It is this: in any exchange among groups, the slower the rate of loss, the greater the chance that they will get additional fresh money put into the system when someone taps out. Sam