Is online poker rigged??? An investigation!

#**596** 11-05-2008, 4:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan1888

I know a programmer who helped create the Poker Stars shuffle.According to him ......

I stopped reading right there.

#**597** 12-05-2008, 1:24 AM

buckster got it backwards, online sites have nothing to lose and all your money to gain.

thats the truth.

argue for or against till your blue in the face and bankrupt it wont change the truth

#**598** 12-05-2008, 1:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zug

buckster got it backwards, online sites have nothing to lose and all your money to gain.

thats the truth.

argue for or against till your blue in the face and bankrupt it wont change the truth

What the hell can one of the sites get from you? A few hundred dollars? They stand to lose billions if they lose their business. And for a company like Stars that has shareholders, I doubt that they would take the risk!

#**599** 12-05-2008, 1:32 AM

Full Tilt. A-10 I call a raise looking to strike. I flop a ten, the other player raises, I re raise, of course she goes all in and rivers the flush. A-2 I call a postion play he had QK I had him beaten until he ran diamonds, 3 straight, to river the flush with the king. I call with A-5 hearts, Im against AK, I flop a flush, see I know its rigged even when I win. I play 9-8 hearts free look, I flop an eight, I bet it, she runs two spades for the flush with q-3, she hit a 3 on the flop. And here is how I went out. The button is in seat #9 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to Sucker [6h Qh] niti21 calls 160 POKERGIRL21 calls 160 manuella7 folds chap has 15 seconds left to act chap calls 160 Charlie Jean calls 160 Sucker calls 160 scratchy1974 folds luvdahaze calls 80 *** FLOP *** [Qs 7s 6c] luvdahaze checks niti21 bets 160 POKERGIRL21 has 15 seconds left to act POKERGIRL21 calls 160 chap calls 160 Charlie Jean folds Sucker has 15 seconds left to act Sucker raises to 800 luvdahaze folds niti21 raises to 6,300, and is all in POKERGIRL21 has 15 seconds left to act POKERGIRL21 folds chap calls 6,140 Sucker calls 2,826, and is all in niti21 shows [Td 9h] chap shows [2s As] Sucker shows [6h Qh] FTP-STL shows [Kh Ad] *** TURN *** [Qs 7s 6c] 4♣ *** RIVER *** [Qs 7s 6c 4c] 9♠ niti21 shows a pair of Nines chap shows a flush, Ace high chap wins side pot #2 (5,348) with a flush, Ace high Sucker shows two pair, Queens and Sixes chap wins side pot #1 (11,518) with a flush, Ace high FTP-STL shows Ace King high chap wins the main pot (560) with a flush, Ace high FTP-STL stands up Sucker stands up niti21 stands up luvdahaze stands up POKERGIRL21 stands up manuella7 stands up chap stands up Charlie Jean stands up scratchy1974 stands up Sucker (Observer): lolololol *** SUMMARY *** Total pot 17,426 Main pot 560. Side pot 1 11,518. Side pot 2 5,348. | Rake 0 Board: [Qs 7s 6c 4c 9s] Seat 1: luvdahaze (small blind) folded on the Flop Seat 2: FTP-STL (big blind) showed [Kh Ad] and lost with Ace King high Seat 3: niti21 showed [Td 9h] and lost with a pair of Nines Seat 4: POKERGIRL21 folded on the Flop Seat 5: manuella7 didn't bet (folded) Seat 6: chap showed [2s As] and won (17,426) with a flush, Ace high Seat 7: Charlie Jean folded on the Flop Seat 8: Sucker showed [6h Qh] and lost with two pair, Queens and Sixes Seat 9: scratchy1974 (button) didn't bet (folded) So what you say? Well, these hands happened in a matter of 5 minutes. I flopped a flush, otherwise I NEVER EVER EVER hit a flush at Full Tilt. But youll notice the hand I flopped the flush with was dominated. Now if you want to embarrass yourselves and say "thats poker", then go ahead. There is NOTHING random about what just took place. Four straight hands my opponent hits the flush after I bet my hands. Twice running. Twice drawing. Absolutely ridiculous.

#**600** 12-05-2008, 1:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iknowthetruth

Full Tilt. A-10 I call a raise looking to strike. I flop a ten, the other player raises, I re raise, of course she goes all in and rivers the flush. A-2 I call a postion play he had QK I had him beaten until he ran diamonds, 3 straight, to river the flush with the king. I call with A-5 hearts, Im against AK, I flop a flush, see I know its rigged even when I win. I play 9-8 hearts free look, I flop an eight, I bet it, she runs two spades for the flush with q-3, she hit a 3 on the flop. And here is how I went out. The button is in seat #9 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to Sucker [6h Qh] niti21 calls 160 POKERGIRL21 calls 160 manuella7 folds chap has 15 seconds left to act chap calls 160 Charlie Jean calls 160 Sucker calls 160 scratchy1974 folds luvdahaze calls 80 *** FLOP *** [Qs 7s 6c] luvdahaze checks niti21 bets 160 POKERGIRL21 has 15 seconds left to act POKERGIRL21 calls 160 chap calls 160 Charlie Jean folds Sucker has 15 seconds left to act Sucker raises to 800 luvdahaze folds niti21 raises to 6,300, and is all in POKERGIRL21 has 15 seconds left to act POKERGIRL21 folds chap calls 6,140 Sucker calls 2,826, and is all in niti21 shows [Td 9h] chap shows [2s As] Sucker shows [6h Qh] Full Tilt Poker-STL shows [Kh Ad] *** TURN *** [Qs 7s 6c] <font color='black'>4♣</font> *** RIVER *** [Qs 7s 6c 4c] 9♠ niti21 shows a pair of Nines chap shows a flush, Ace high chap wins side pot #2 (5,348) with a flush, Ace high Sucker shows two pair, Queens and Sixes chap wins side pot #1 (11,518) with a flush, Ace high Full Tilt Poker-STL shows Ace King high chap wins the main pot (560) with a flush, Ace high FTP-STL stands up Sucker stands up niti21 stands up luvdahaze stands up POKERGIRL21 stands up manuella7 stands up chap stands up Charlie Jean stands up scratchy1974 stands up Sucker (Observer): lolololol *** SUMMARY *** Total pot 17,426 Main pot 560. Side pot 1 11,518. Side pot 2 5,348. | Rake 0 Board: [Qs 7s 6c 4c 9s] Seat 1: luvdahaze (small blind) folded on the Flop Seat 2: FTP-STL (big blind) showed [Kh Ad] and lost with Ace King high Seat 3: niti21 showed [Td 9h] and lost with a pair of Nines Seat 4: POKERGIRL21 folded on the Flop Seat 5: manuella7 didn't bet (folded) Seat 6: chap showed [2s As] and won (17,426) with a flush, Ace high Seat 7: Charlie Jean folded on the Flop Seat 8: Sucker showed [6h Qh] and lost with two pair, Queens and Sixes Seat 9: scratchy1974 (button) didn't bet (folded) So what you say? Well, these hands happened in a matter of 5 minutes. I flopped a flush, otherwise I NEVER EVER EVER hit a flush at Full Tilt. But youll notice the hand I flopped the flush with was dominated. Now if you want to embarrass yourselves and say "thats poker", then go ahead. There is NOTHING random about what just took place. Four straight hands my opponent hits the flush after I bet my hands. Twice running. Twice drawing. Absolutely ridiculous.

2 questions

Why do you still play if you know its rigged? Only fools like myself should still be playing.

How much did you lose?

#**601** 12-05-2008, 1:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iknowthetruth

Full Tilt. A-10 I call a raise looking to strike. I flop a ten, the other player raises, I re raise, of course she goes all in and rivers the flush. A-2 I call a postion play he had QK I had him beaten until he ran diamonds, 3 straight, to river the flush with the king. I call with A-5 hearts, Im against AK, I flop a flush, see I know its rigged even when I win. I play 9-8 hearts free look, I flop an eight, I bet it, she runs two spades for the flush with q-3, she hit a 3 on the flop. And here is how I went out. The button is in seat #9 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to Sucker [6h Qh] niti21 calls 160 POKERGIRL21 calls 160 manuella7 folds chap has 15 seconds left to act chap calls 160 Charlie Jean calls 160 Sucker calls 160 scratchy1974 folds luvdahaze calls 80 *** FLOP *** [Qs 7s 6c] luvdahaze checks niti21 bets 160 POKERGIRL21 has 15 seconds left to act POKERGIRL21 calls 160 chap calls 160 Charlie Jean folds Sucker has 15 seconds left to act Sucker raises to 800 luvdahaze folds niti21 raises to 6,300, and is all in POKERGIRL21 has 15 seconds left to act POKERGIRL21 folds chap calls 6,140 Sucker calls 2,826, and is all in niti21 shows [Td 9h] chap shows [2s As] Sucker shows [6h Qh] Full Tilt Poker-STL shows [Kh Ad] *** TURN *** [Qs 7s 6c] 4♣ *** RIVER *** [Qs 7s 6c 4c] 9♠ niti21 shows a pair of Nines chap shows a flush, Ace high chap wins side pot #2 (5,348) with a flush, Ace high Sucker shows two pair, Queens and Sixes chap wins side pot #1 (11,518) with a flush, Ace high Full Tilt Poker-STL shows Ace King high chap wins the main pot (560) with a flush, Ace high Full Tilt Poker-STL stands up Sucker stands up niti21 stands up luvdahaze stands up POKERGIRL21 stands up manuella7 stands up chap stands up Charlie Jean stands up scratchy1974 stands up Sucker (Observer): lolololol *** SUMMARY *** Total pot 17,426 Main pot 560. Side pot 1 11,518. Side pot 2 5,348. | Rake 0 Board: [Qs 7s 6c 4c 9s] Seat 1: luvdahaze (small blind) folded on the Flop Seat 2: Full Tilt Poker-STL (big blind) showed [Kh Ad] and lost with Ace King high Seat 3: niti21 showed [Td 9h] and lost with a pair of Nines Seat 4: POKERGIRL21 folded on the Flop Seat 5: manuella7 didn't bet (folded) Seat 6: chap showed [2s As] and won (17,426) with a flush, Ace high Seat 7: Charlie Jean folded on the Flop Seat 8: Sucker showed [6h Qh] and lost with two pair, Queens and Sixes Seat 9: scratchy1974 (button) didn't bet (folded) So what you say? Well, these hands happened in a matter of 5 minutes. I flopped a flush, otherwise I NEVER EVER EVER hit a flush at Full Tilt. But youll notice the hand I flopped the flush with was dominated. Now if you want to embarrass yourselves and say "thats poker", then go ahead. There is NOTHING random about what just took place. Four straight hands my opponent hits the flush after I bet my hands. Twice running. Twice drawing. Absolutely ridiculous.

...Obv rigged because the odds of a flush hitting 4x in a row is about a bazillion-to-1.

BTW, thats poker.

#**602** 12-05-2008, 1:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philthy

...Obv rigged because the odds of flushes hitting 4x in a row is about a bazillion-to-1.

BTW, thats poker.

It is very similar to a disgruntled employee.

I mean I can feel some of these guys pain. Today I was bad beated out of the million. I just at this second was robbed and finished at the bubble in a sat (got the money, yes that close - 1 spot!)
But that doesnt mean that it is rigged. It means that today my luck has been shitty. Pretty simple as that. imo

#**603** 12-05-2008, 1:50 AM

The way I see it, whenever I bubble or lose to any type of hand except the royal flush...its rigged.

Its that simple.

#**604** 12-05-2008, 1:50 AM

odinscott sites know theres no way u can prove they are rigged.

if your winning your not depositing.

they want you to think its all on the level when your dominating hands get broke 89% of the time.

this way you chalk it up to yet another bad beat then deopsit more money into the sites coffers.

P.T. Barnam said it best....(theres a sucker born every day!)

judging by the fanatical blind faith some of these posters have in these websites who hide from any governing sanctions whatsoever by being based overseas,

i would say there are at least 2 suckers born every day.

#**605** 12-05-2008, 1:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philthy

The way I see it, whenever I bubble or lose to any type of hand except the royal flush...its rigged.

Its that simple.

Royal flush = rigged for sure. imo

Quote:

Originally Posted by zug

odinscott sites know theres no way u can prove they are rigged.

if your winning your not depositing.

they want you to think its all on the level when your dominating hands get broke 89% of the time.

this way you chalk it up to yet another bad beat then deopsit more money into the sites coffers.

P.T. Barnam said it best....(theres a sucker born every day!)

judging by the fanatical blind faith some of these posters have in these websites who hide from any governing sanctions whatsoever by being based overseas,

i would say there are at least 2 suckers born every day.

Funny I only deposited once (actually like 3 times in the first month, first was for a wopping 20 dollars). So to me at least, that argument doesnt hold any water. Now if you told me, that it was a grand conspiracy against me, to steal my 215 dollars in the million today. Well I would believe that...

#**606** 12-05-2008, 1:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zug

they want you to think its all on the level when your dominating hands get broke 89% of the time.

i dunno bro i think it's more like 87% of the time.

#**607** 12-05-2008, 1:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zug

odinscott sites know theres no way u can prove they are rigged.

if your winning your not depositing.

they want you to think its all on the level when your dominating hands get broke 89% of the time.

this way you chalk it up to yet another bad beat then deopsit more money into the sites coffers.

P.T. Barnam said it best....(theres a sucker born every day!)

judging by the fanatical blind faith some of these posters have in these websites who hide from any governing sanctions whatsoever by being based overseas,

i would say there are at least 2 suckers born every day.

lol guess I'm a sucker, all the way to the bank. Gotta go cash that pokerstars check. I built up $100 to ~$2100 playing over 200k hands and I'm winning more every day. Sure there are the swings where I lose a few buy-ins, but they are more than made up for on the swings upward. Anyway, $600 check I gotta go cash tomorrow, but you just keep on thinking it's rigged because you're too lazy to do anything about your skill.

"Winners are always working hard, losers make excuses", which will you be?

By the way, my challenge still stands, I've got a few thousand from full tilt and 200k+ from pokerstars. Please explain to me how you think it's rigged (ie percentage of flush draws hitting higher? If it's rigged there's obviously a number that's not right). I'm knowledgable with SQL so I can run a query through my 200k+ hands and I think there are others with a million+ hands. I can't speak for them but I will write a query and run it through my database and make the query available to others so they can run it through theirs as well. But I made this challenge literally as one of the first posts since I joined CC. I have yet to have anyone step up to it. I somehow doubt they will, they just want to make excuses. And that's fine, I'll keep working, because although I do make money now, I can always get better.

#**608** 12-05-2008, 2:02 AM

zachvac if youve got 200k why not go to vegas.

oh yeah you were just makin it up to feel better about your losses

#**609** 12-05-2008, 2:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zug

zachvac if youve got 200k why not go to vegas.

oh yeah you were just makin it up to feel better about your losses

He is talking about 200k hands lol.

#**610** 12-05-2008, 2:05 AM

Haha, he didn't say he had $200k he said he had 200k hands played at PokerStars.

Reading comprehension is fun.

#**611** 12-05-2008, 2:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zug

zachvac if youve got 200k why not go to vegas.

oh yeah you were just makin it up to feel better about your losses

LURN 2 REED

#**612** 12-05-2008, 2:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dorkus Malorkus

i dunno bro i think it's more like 87% of the time.

LOL

Quote:

Originally Posted by zug

zachvac if youve got 200k why not go to vegas.

oh yeah you were just makin it up to feel better about your losses

LOLZ!!!

#**613** 12-05-2008, 3:00 AM

I don't know if its rigged or not(but a friend reckons hes close to getting the system to do it,but I've still got to see it before i believe him) but in my opinion if its not rigged its as close as it could be.
By example I'll tell you my weekend on foool tilt on Saturday played 5 $3.30 90 person sit"n"go's my results were a 1st,2nd,3rd,6th & a nowhere(i won about $150/160),pretty good even though i do say myself.Then Sunday first game got a 7th OK everythings fine.Then check my email(i sent because i withdrew some money & it disappeared on their end)from foool tilt say they've sent it it must be my fault that its gone,sent one back they sent one back & so on still waiting for their next reply.Anyway started playing again out 1st hand AA vs 44(he/she went all in 1st)OK that happens,but then i went through the next 7/8 hours(not continuous)of the worst bad beats I've had since the last time i sent a email to them complaining about withdrawing money.(end the day with all my winning plus $30 of my own money down).
Its just a funny coincidence that one day i can be a average to OK player ,& the next I'm a fish
please it just don't happen like that.

#**614** 12-05-2008, 3:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 123bird

I don't know if its rigged or not(but a friend reckons hes close to getting the system to do it,but I've still got to see it before i believe him) but in my opinion if its not rigged its as close as it could be.
By example I'll tell you my weekend on foool tilt on Saturday played 5 $3.30 90 person sit"n"go's my results were a 1st,2nd,3rd,6th & a nowhere(i won about $150/160),pretty good even though i do say myself.Then Sunday first game got a 7th OK everythings fine.Then check my email(i sent because i withdrew some money & it disappeared on their end)from foool tilt say they've sent it it must be my fault that its gone,sent one back they sent one back & so on still waiting for their next reply.Anyway started playing again out 1st hand AA vs 44(he/she went all in 1st)OK that happens,but then i went through the next 7/8 hours(not continuous)of the worst bad beats I've had since the last time i sent a email to them complaining about withdrawing money.(end the day with all my winning plus $30 of my own money down).
Its just a funny coincidence that one day i can be a average to OK player ,& the next I'm a fish
please it just don't happen like that.

If your friend cracks the RNG (yeah right but if he did), that isnt rigging. That is your friend cheating not the site...

As to your email, yeah you know you are right. They doomswitched you...

#**615** 12-05-2008, 12:20 PM

This argument can go round and round and never be proved. The examination of hand histories won't give any clues becauase the manipulation is in the situations created not the 'trackable' hand histories. High action is balanced out by low action, but the ultimate aim is to eliminate players. No one player is neccessarily favoured, that isn't neccessary or desirable. The sites want everyone to lose money, re-deposit and most of all BELIEVE they can win. They are the experts, never forget that, and they have the means to create realistic rng's that stand up to scrutiny. As I said, it's the situations created that are designed to optimise the sites profits.

Question: Has anyone here ever played a rebuy mtt that didn't make the guarantee?....Of course not! How can that be?

Anyway, I gave my thoughts regarding the changes in online poker over the last few years in an attempt to help others realise what was happening. There are some who refuse to believe that the poker sites are out to manipulate the players and that they have some sort of moral high ground......they will, in time, come to realise what is going on (when they realise all the money they have lost while their head was in the sand), meantime there are more and more 'punters' joining in and the sites go from strength to strength.

Last word from me........I gave some facts about my mtt record in my initial post in an attempt to give a little credibility to my post. I was called a liar etc.etc. etc. I have dug out some results of mine from 2005 and attached them to this post. I have removed my username from them for my own reasons. The column headings are as follows: Date; Site; Entry Fee; Tourney Value; Game type; Finishing position; Profit (not winnings); No. of entrants; The last column is a points scoring system.

This document is an extract from a site that tracked mtt results primarily for the VC and Ladbrokes sites. There are other results from other sites at the time but I won't bore you with them.

IF YOU WANT TO KNOW YOUR PROFITABILITY KEEP RECORDS NOT MEMORIES.

You may be losing a lot of money. 99% of all players are. I stopped playing online poker because it ceased to be profitable for me.

#**616** 12-05-2008, 12:36 PM

^^^^that is probably one of the worst arguments for "online poker is rigged" that I have heard in the 3 years I have been hearing them.

I am not a winning player - though I cone very close to breaking even most of the time. But I know why I lose more than I have to and I am willing to admit it. I do not take the time to learn how to play and be profitable. In other words - I am not one of the greatest poker players and probably never will be. At least I don't blame the sites when I lose.

#**617** 12-05-2008, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Question: Has anyone here ever played a rebuy mtt that didn't make the guarantee?....Of course not! How can that be?

umm because sites are invariably very cautious with their guarantees. for example pokerstars pretty routinely gets at least 1.5x the guarantee in the prize pool - rebuys or no rebuys.

also wtf at giant pic.

#**618** 12-05-2008, 12:45 PM

The giant pic Donkus is to illustrate how a player who was consistant in mtt's over a number of years (look at the dates and regular results) now feels he's playing bingo not genuine poker. You guys are in denial......beyond help.......no point trying to talk reason with you.....happy gambling.......not poker .......pure gambling.

#**619** 12-05-2008, 12:50 PM

Something I find fascinating is that he cashed in every tournament he ever played in. Every last one. That's quite a feat.

#**620** 12-05-2008, 1:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ex-player

The giant pic Dorkus

FYP

1. Resize the pic next time.
2. I wish I ran as good as you did. OMG, that has to be the greatest ROI I've ever seen. I can barely cash in 1/10 MTTs, let alone 50/50 or how ever many is in your sample.

Insane skillz, IMO.

#**621** 12-05-2008, 1:15 PM

I quite like 'Donkus'.

#**622** 12-05-2008, 1:18 PM

Donkus Malonkus...

Doesn't have that nice ring to it IMO, but whatever floats your [full] boat.

#**623** 12-05-2008, 1:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philthy

FYP

1. Resize the pic next time.
2. I wish I ran as good as you did. OMG, that has to be the greatest ROI I've ever seen. I can barely cash in 1/10 MTTs, let alone 50/50 or how ever many is in your sample.

Insane skillz, IMO.

50? FIFTY?What do you take him for, an amateur? That's 117 straight cashes. That's right, bitches, I counted 'em.

#**624** 12-05-2008, 1:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by F Paulsson

50? FIFTY?What do you take him for, an amateur? That's 117 straight cashes. That's right, bitches, I counted 'em.

Oh, man. I got confused for a second. 50 is the number of MTTs I busted out of before I finally cashed.

#**625** 12-05-2008, 1:25 PM

OK here they come....the 'You've made it up'....'Liar'.......'can't be true'....etc etc etc. All I could have expected I suppose. The rate of cashing worked out at 1 in every 1.8 played.....and was approx. that for 3 years 2004 to late 2006. Then things changed dramatically...thats why I stopped playing online. My live play would suggest it wasn't my game or ability that changed.

Do you really think I sat down and made it all up......for what purpose? I haven't slated off any site in particular. I don't rant about particular hands. I don't say I'm a pro....I have sufficient private income from my businesses without needing to win at poker. I play (live now) because I love the game and dislike the fact the online poker is no better than bingo.

#**626** 12-05-2008, 1:26 PM

The rate of cashing, friend, is 1 out of every 1 you played in the list above.

#**627** 12-05-2008, 1:31 PM

No ......... The site was a league tracker (hence the points tally in rh column). It shows winnings. If you look at the dates. I generally played 2 mtt's per day. Most days/dates with no results were just that....no result. The site was affiliated to a forum in UK...1808gang.


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