Online dealing

With Random number generating etc...

Lets say you click call and then the flop comes. Would the cards have been different on the flop had you called 2 seconds later then when you did.

Also what do the main sites (PS and FT) use for online dealing. Is it the random number generator?

afaik, only Full Tilt has the shuffling that is constant, so yes if you pause the outcome could be different.
I don't think it makes much of a difference though.

I think that's one of the methods Stars uses:

http://www.cryptography.com/public/pdf/IntelRNG.pdf

Also, I believe that the cards are different in the instance that you fold, check, call or raise. How many seconds it took you to react, your mouse movements, screen resolution, OS, system time, etc, etc, all things that, when combined, produce a truly random number.

All sites use some variation of a random number generator, there really is no other way to go about it without the entire hand already being predetermined, which would obviously be a huge problem. All online casino games are this way, as are electronic slot machines and video poker machines.

As far as the constant shuffle vs random shuffle. It doesn't matter. You will see some bad players complain that the constant shuffle is bad because it isn't how real poker is played or that it is all a matter of when you actually click the button, but who cares when it is truly a random card, whether you have regular shuffle online, constant shuffle with 5 seconds, constant shuffle with 10 seconds, or real life shuffling. The only way that it would make a difference one way or another would be if you were stacking the deck to your advantage. About 5 years ago, friends and I would play a variation of poker we made up(drinking game) that we would shuffle as much as we wanted throughout the hand being played. Same randomness, but constantly changing...

If you know much about programming, you will no that there really is no such thing as a truly random number. There is an algorithm for all RNGs and they can all be broken down. Albeit some are much better than others, but there is a method to how they come up with it. Just look at how hackers were beating the casino's video poker machines in the 90's......

As has been mentioned in several threads on CC...

Full Tilt - the cards change based on when you make a decision

PokerStars - the community cards will be dealt the same no matter when you make a decision

Yeah, I used to program as a hobby, before I met Mr. Poker. But, programming doesn't have much to do with this, more like cryptography. I agree that there can never be a software RNG, but we're talking about several physical RNG's, whose algorithm can't even be predicted by it's creators. At least that's how it should be

As others have mentioned, computers don't really have the ability to generate truly random numbers (they generate pseudo-random numbers). With 32-bit computers, you have the additional problem that there are more possible shuffles of the deck than there are numbers that the computer can represent!

I've heard that there are physical devices that you can attach to a computer that have the ability to generate truly random numbers. They involve matters of physics which, although theoretically are deterministic, in practice, they appear random.

I believe that what most sites do is pull pseudo-random numbers from a bunch of their servers in addition to random elements such as the number of milliseconds it takes 1,000 different players, for instance, to click a button. The dollar amount of the last deposit made could even factor into the equation. The idea is to throw in enough random factors and split the process over enough servers so that, practically speaking, no one could figure out what the next number in the sequence is going to be.

As to whether that decision was made 1 millisecond ago or 1 minute ago doesn't really matter so long as no one can figure out the sequence.

As someone else mentioned, they used to shuffle the remaining cards in a deck while play was still going on. While some might get very superstitious about that, technically speaking, it doesn't change a person's odds at all.

Hope that helps. Random numbers are cool.

-Dave

Id just like to say Thanks for all the replies, it is always good to read up on ev1's thoughts.

RNG, would of come in handy last night, I was dealt 99, flop was A,3,9, long story short, I was on the bubble, against the big stack (who had A/K off by the way) on the table, I bet 2x, which is just under half my stack, he raises me all in, now I know at the stage its my hand, then, out comes the A, thats a full house to me, and suprise suprise, out comes the K.

RNG, what a load of bulls**t, these huge programs may lay claim to having an RNG in place, but, if you have been beaten in this same senario, (and this is happening far too much) , you will see that these programs can also pick there winner, much like bingo.

Big-Jamo

No it's not...these posts drive me nuts. Refer to Rigged megathread - all (rigged) roads lead here (http://www.cardschat.com/f46/rigged-megathread-all-rigged-roads-lead-181855/) to be educated.