Not looking at your cards until it's your turn to act...

Does anybody else play like this. I've been reading Phil Gordon's Little Green Book and he makes note of how he never looks at his cards until it's his turn to act.

I never look at my cards before it is my turn to act. I find that if I look at my hand as soon as the cards are dealt, I am often uninterested in the action if I have a bad hand and overly interested if I have a good hand. Players who are paying attention can easily pick up this tell use it against me when deciding if they should play their hands. Waiting until it's my turn to act before looking at my cards also helps me to stay focused on what everyone else is doing. By concentrating on how each opponent acts before the flop, I often pick up valuable information that helps me later in the hand and in the game.

This sounds like a really good advice to stay focused on the game. Anyone else who does this?

Hi CX,

I drift in and out on this one. Sometimes I pick them up straight away, sometimes I wait and look. I have never found it to be as good a tell as it sounds though. A lot of people know about the "looking down at their chips means theyve got a hand" thing but this can be distracting. For some people having a hand means pocket 3's in early position.

One thing I always do though, once I have picked up my cards, is look at them for about 10 seconds, memorize them and put them down in the same place, safely out of the way. I look at them for the same amount of time whether I have AA or J2o. I do this mainly so that I never have to re-check my cards and give info away (most people will re-check their hands on a draw to make sure they have what they think they have).

Good luck.

CuttleFish

I just look because any of the fields I've palyed live players aren't intelligent enough to pick up on betting tells so they will never notice body tells. I'd say in most tourneys you wouldn't even need to worry about what tells your body gives off but be more concerned if you can pick up on sombody elses.

Yeah, your average buy in live tourney, I'm not too concerned about people picking up on my tells, but if you are looking at your own cards as soon as you get them, then you are obviously not looking at other people when they get their cards, so waiting until its your turn to act is probably still pretty good advice to help keep you focused on everything that is happening at the table.

In general it's very good advice - even if you don't think the players in your game are good enough to pick up tells on you based on when you look at your cards, it can very much affect how you approach each hand.

If you look at your cards straight away and see rags, your brain almost invariably switches off and stops paying attention to the hand because it knows your sole involvement in the hand will be folding when the action reaches you. In that state of mind, it's very easy to miss important information you could pick up on other players as they look at their cards and make their action.

Put it this way: there's really no downside to following his advice, and in some games there's definitely an upside.

this is what slows the game down...
if you know exactly what you plan to do with every hand in every situation then fine ...focus on others and wait
but if not you risk making a hasty decision or giving away your hand anyway

You should be thinking about what you are going to do with the cards you see - before you see them.

Position, position, position! Its like real estate

yeah this is good advice because you become way more observant, it forces you to be. also it avoids tells for other ppl. So many times i know when the player to my left will be folding just because they have obvious fold jesters and in turn ill make a move knowing i have one less player to worry about. If you look at your cards right away you probably will start making habits that you may not be able to break, like not putting you cards under chip protector when u r going to muck. ppl do it all the time....

Yes Cuttle, in relation to your position. Point is you don't wait to see your cards to figure out what you are going to do.

Example, Just last night in $1-3 cash I am in late position. Limp, raise, reraise from old lady major nit (whom I had played before) - comes to me - if I don't at least see QQ I am out of this pot. I look at TT. Fold (after taking a few seconds to confirm the previous action in my head). Historically speaking this old gal had either AA or KK. I know that's terrible PF ranging but no way she was reraising without a monster.

If I am not already considering my hand before I see it, well TT might look better than it actually was. And if I had looked at it before the action - well I might have made some sort of stupid commitment to playing the hand.

Instead I was totally objective in studying the action and was able to make a rational decision as to what I needed to be in this pot before seeing my hand. Did it hurt to fold TT? A little, but not as much as it would have getting involved in that hand.

INCONSEQUENTIAL HAND RESULTS
She had KK and this other wannabe shark I had never seen before thought it was a good idea to keep calling her 1/2 pot raises on each street with JJ. The board never saw any paint (nor a T).

I agree that this is good advice. Paying attention to what is going on before the betting gets to you can provide meaningful tells which you can use to your advantage. I tend to adopt this tactic pretty much most of the time.

Many times, just by paying attention to the action and tells rather than our cards, it turns out we don't even need to look at our cards to know how to play a particular hand.

I keep trying to not see my cards, but I haven't found the option yet.......

this is like the movie rounders when dood plays blind for the judge guy or whatevers against his buddies lol. rounders :-)

I play in a live league, yep I've gotten in the habit to look at everyone just to see if there giving any tells, but most of them are pretty good by now and have the same look, but yea I've learned it's best to look at the table before you look at your hand, then make a choice!

i find myself doing this alot in live tournys i wait till the lastest possible chanec to take a peek at my cards then play poker accordly i find it gives me a chance to gauge the table and see who's wanting to fool around a bit or who has a hand they are just itching to throw away

I almost never look at my cards before it gets to me. I generally am watching all the other players look at their cards, and how they move to their chips, how they pick them up, how they bet them on the table. I then watch to see how these movements change as the day/night moves along (and what cards they are holding obv).

If you play enough live, you realize tells can make a difference. If you play on playing live a lot, I would suggest picking up one of the "tell books" so you can at least pick up the standard "eye movement tells", and other standard movements. Some players give away a lot in body movements, etc. The shaking hand while betting is one of my favorites and you can rely on it a large majority of the time (surprisingly, it almost always means this player has the NUTS).

i try to look twice...when no one is looking.....each card as i get them...and then right as the flop comes out bc everyone is lokking at the flop

It's very important to look at the table reactions when the flop hits.

I generally look at my cards immediately after I watch the other players and way before it's my turn to act. It hard to observe everyone but I like to watch their hand action right after the flip the corner of the card. If they move their hand quickly to their chips right away it generally means they want to bet. It their hands remain motionless likely no. Not the best tell but it does work most of the time and it's helpful to know. The only time when I have look late at my cards is at the SB or BB or straddle. Was playing double straddle and I was UTG single straddle didnt look at my cards. 5 players limp in when it was my turn I squeeze without looking at my cards and picked up the pot Afterward I looked my hole cards and they were Q4 o. Definitely something I would not have tried if I looked at my cards first

It's a very good tell.

If a player immediately looks at their chips after seeing their cards, you might wanna muck... unless you're made, of course.

I never look at my cards right away but don't wait til its my turn to act either ,somewhere in between works for me

I always wait till it's my turn to look, that way I've seen what has happened before I act and I try to keep an eye on anyone behind me as well.
Once I look I try to take the same time, each time, no matter what I have.

Then I take a small page out of Ferguson's book and wait to act even if I am going to fold. (just a few seconds)

Keeps everyone guessing

It's funny to watch how some players do something so different from their usual motion after the flop hits. Especially with AAx flops with multiple players postflop. One guy UTG turn his head full circle to look at every players stacks then proceed to check. Pretty obvious
Another table ,same flop another player UTG does this unusual exaggerated check I never seen him do earlier. He was checking liike he was trying to make hamburger patties with his hand. of course both was holding Ax with made FH

Most who play slowly are multi-tabling or are doing it to hopefully piss other players off, like those who show needlessly or rabbit.

Is it me or does this sound like a very fishy thing to do and not something a pro should do by all means and most defiantly something he SHOULD of conquered by now? If anything, I find more pros look at their cards first and don't give of tells like that. Phil Gordon though...very strange and fishy. "I'm interested in the hand IF I have Aces, otherwise I will drift in to space" so if I do either of those things and look at my cards as soon as I'm dealt the cards, you can most defiantly assign me a good/bad range.

This depends on your character of person in general. For him, it works because he gives us blatant signs of if he has a good hand or not

ie: Being interested in the hand or not.

I'm unsure as to why he gives it as advice to other players, as this seems very player dependant not grounds for every player.

For example, me on the other hand, I'm quite sure I have the same expression regardless. If you are uninterested in a hand being played out live, when you are uninterested in your actual hand, then I'm unsure as to why he is at the table to start with. He seems to get bored very quickly.

I find every hand of interest, more so in fact when I'm not involved.

I'm not so sure that Gordon's advice is about tells as much as it is about staying focused on what's happening in the game. I think he is saying if he looks before it is his turn to act and sees 83o the brain's natural tendancy is to relinquish some interest in the hand since the outcome no longer has immediate effect on his stack.
I'm sure this is more about developing a good habit that serves the entirety of his game (and mine as well). His example of AA versus staring into space is overstated for effect. Remember his material is pretty much directed at newer, less experienced players. Add to that the fact he will be the first to tell you (as he did in his Gold Book) that some of his material is old and antiquated and the game has changed since he wrote it - so back off my man Phil - LOL

On the other hand you now have guy's like Joe Navarro advising to NOT wait for your turn to look at your cards since everyone will now have their attention on you and be able to "get something". His advice is strictly about tells.

But really, isn't about every other poker player also convinced of this.
Grinding away 12+ hours at the table you are certainly going to go through assorted stages and phases of the ability to concentrate at a high competitive level.
That is a gift. Use it well.

I am very disciplined the first couple hours of a cash game to wait as my study of the other players is at its highest as I am putting players on styles and such. Later I an apt to sneak peeks at my cards when another non-threatening player is looking.
In a tournament it's pretty much the opposite - I am more inclined to be more disciplined at the final table than at the beginning.

Habits are very importat in poker. Looking at your cards in turn is just a habit. But a habit with benefits. You can watch your fellow players, get a drink, adjust your chair. But develop habits that protect your game.

One of the first things I look for is the fact that the guys I am looking at are looking at what cards come out on the flop. This is an indication that they are just playing their cards and are not really thinking too much about what anyone else has.

It's kind of funny when you end up in a stare down with another guy doing the same since it so rare at lower stakes.

Yeah, I do. Actually, I think this is also a good way to gauge the ability of an unfamiliar opponent. If they wait 'til their turn, then chances are they are probably a better than average player. The only real downside is that people generally look at the person who's turn it is and that means that they will all be looking at you during the time you're looking at your cards. So, just make sure you give nothing away, especially during that time.

Yeah i play alot of live, while others are viewing there cards you can pick up alot of tells. and if your looking at your cards right away they can pick up a tell form you. so simple observation of the table while everyones head is down is benifical. its like keeping your eyes open while everyone else is praying, you learn alot about the heart of man observing others

I have seen that done in live at least once in my life....