No HUD No Problem

HUDs should be outlawed. HUDs are not part of the game of poker. You learn how people play by playing with them. I feel that in MTTS it is extremely important to have. Its late in a tourney I get switched tables. I raise other guy shubs. I have no idea how this guy plays and he knows how I play rite away. Poker sites created these to generate more revenue. If Huds are allowed they should be free and advertised on their website. Just becuase i don't have a few bucks to spare to buy one the guy that has extra money to buy one gets in advantage over me. not fair. richer get rich poorer get poorer. If every single person had a HUD do you think there would be a significant diffrence playing 6+tables

Dumb people are dumb.

I am dumb. you are smart. Thats fine. I know im not the best poster but i like being a member of cards chat and im sorry but you are an a** for that post.

Am I The Official thread killer or what. I will try to make more useful post next time. My apologies MR.WVhillbilly

Do you know what HUD is? I will not try to be an a** but i think you do not even searched Google to see what HUD actually is and how it is used. And to be more specific you have to search for a tracker like Poker Tracker or Holdem Manager. After you search Google come back and you will see why WVHillbilly said what he said.

The HUD will let you know how loose or aggressive your opponents are, plus much more information. By profiling the other players at the table, your HUD can reveal the secret tendencies of your opponents.
Poker is a game of information. By gathering more information with the HUD, you gain an advantage. By not doing it, your opponents gain an advantage over you.
(http://www.learn2holdem.com/poker-st...-hud-guide.htm

Wow, posts like this make me want to ride the tilt-a-whirl. According to your logic, live games should not allow opponents to look at each other because one might spot a tell and that would be unfair to the rest of the players. I make my point.

So you have to gather information first and after that you will know how your opponent plays. If you never played against an opponent HUD helps you with nothing.
And BTW. HUD does not gather information. Poker sites does not develop HUD and they do not sell it for money. HUD is a piece of software from a poker tracker developed by other companies than poker sites and just shows statistics of data gathered in a databse used by that poker tracker. Also that tracker imports the hands stored in your history folder , store them into the database and after that HUD shows statistics.
I do not understand why it should be outlawed .
Is like saying "taking notes on an opponent should be outlowed".

Yeah I think this is the key point that TC is missing. HUDs don't give you any more information than carefully observing an opponent can give you, unless you get into the mass buying of hand histories, which iirc isn't allowed by most sites.

Some sites allow HUD and some dont. Enough has been said about why a HUD is a useful tool, so I wont go there. If you dont like the idea of a HUD, then play on one of the sites that dont allow them.

Simple really.........

In the situation you described in the op... The only way he knows how you play right away is if he has played you before. Therefore you should know how he plays right away also. Him having a HUD gives him no information you couldn't have gotten yourself with notes and math.
Maybe you should use the search function here on CC to find out what a HUD is and does before you say that poker sites should ban them. Maybe your thinking of data-mining? Well that's already against the TOS at most poker sites, and about the only way your hypothetical situation would make any sense if you two had never played against one another in the past.

Some people lose money even when they play with HUD.HUD can give you informations like VPIP etc. but HUD won't tell you if your opponent has monster.

I can give a tracker to 90% of he micros players. I am sure they will still play like c...p after that HUD does not teach you how to play poker. Just tells you some info. If you do not know what it means or how to use it, HUD will just sit in your way because all that numebers on your screen look like c..p when you do not know what they are.

Agree, I played with a HUD was over confident and lost money.

I now sort out the fish, CSs maniacs Tight weak Tight strong TAGs LAGS for myself and play them accordingly.

When I lose it is because my judgement was crook not some HUD leading me a stray.

Btw you can get some free tracking software with decent HUD.It is not like PT or HEM but it works what it should.

Why do people even answer idiots like this? And if you can't afford a $50 HUD then you shouldn't even be playing poker in the first place.

Come on, he has said his opinion and all others too.
But there is no need to blame him, because he cannot afford the money to buy a tracker software.

I agree with Aldito if you can't afford $50 for Pt3\HEM you prob shouldn't be playing for money.Doesn't mean you have to buy it if your hell bend on your thoughts about them.Free books at the libary >study>learn>play>get better>win money>buy PT3\HEM.It has been said alot on here the biggest thing about tracking software is not to get a big edge on the people you play but the ability to study your on game.

Even if what Aldito said was correct, there was certainly no need to respond in the way that Aldito responded. It would also have been nice if WVHillbilly's response had been a little more constructive, as it is quite clear that the OP did not understand what a HUD does, and one of the great things about CardsChat is that it is (usually) a very friendly forum.

Regarding Aldito's claim I feel that this is a very narrow-minded viewpoint. We have people coming here, for example, who are trying to build a bankroll from freerolls and are looking for advice. Some people here are recreational players, some use a netbook that cannot run tracking software as well as poker software.

Surely we want to help people and try to educate them, not abuse them, especially if they have a big misunderstanding like this? You're not an idiot just because you have misunderstood exaggerated claims from tracking software adverts, IMO.

If he'd have bothered searching here at CC or even just googling he'd have answered a lot of his own questions. Hence his question was uninformed, or dumb.

I don't necessarily disagree with you, and I am aware that you have given my husband (amongst others) an enormous amount of constructive advice, which we are very grateful for. Also the OP wasn't necessarily phrased as constructively as it might have been.

The thing is surely we have all encountered people in RL that go around spouting this sort of ill-informed nonsense, and I always make a point of letting them know that they have completely misunderstood. How much chance do you think there is of them changing their point of view if we call them an idiot?

It depends on the reader to change or not, to read or not, to get information or not and to read the idiot part or not. While I do understand what you are trying to say, it also works the other way around. If someone called me an idiot here (I've been hinted in this forum to be some other stuff) it's up to me to choose what I'll give importance too. Everyone could call the most hedious offenses, as long as they are participating, I don't really care.

One post can have bits of information that are useful, others that are nothing. It's up to the reader to do his best to get the information that he needs and disregard the rest. There are also users that are very harsh but offer great knowledge and others that are quite polite and have nothing to offer... which one would you prefer?

I'm not aware of anybody here that has nothing to offer. Poker Orifice suggested that if you don't use tracking software it is a good idea to make copious notes. I've followed that advice and it turned out to be good advice.

Still ... bad language or abuse should not be allowed. I do agree that his post was awfull but this is not a reason to talk like that. CC is one of the finest forums there are there and it should remain that way. That's why ppl come here , that is what the forum admins tried hard for the last years. So that this forum remain a source of finding information and nice conversation that would allow ppl to easely and plesantly increase their poker knowledge. That is why i registered in the first place.
I also think that the OP post was derailed but i can answer him or not, not abuse him in the worsed way possible.

THIS!!!

Umm.. YES! Do you think a HUD plays poker for you or something?
just a sidenote, for MTT play did you know that alot of the Top HSMTT players never use a HUD?

About 1-2 years ago i went to bat for a guy like OP.I knew he\she misunderstood what a HUD was.I felt every one was riding him\her,i tried to inform this person as to what a tracking software was.Truth is people spout shit off at the mouth miss informed an when they are proven wrong disappear.WV lack of patience is because he deals with this sort of shit over and ove,r with out the OP given one iota of research.

While I disagree with OP's sentiment that HUD's shouldn't be a part of online poker, I also dislike the non-constructive posts in this thread. I agree that CC is a great board to be a part of, and the thing that sets it apart from other more active poker boards is the *usual* willingness of members to constructively help newbies and uninformed individuals.

Hey, I'm all for giving flak and witty cynicism to obvious trolls and board regs, but OP is simply expressing his opinion and seems to want to engage in meaningful discussion on the matter.

In any case, some good points about HUDs have been made in the posts above, and in actuality a HUD gives you no more information than you could get yourself with extremely copious note taking. This is why it is not an unfair advantage -- the information a HUD gives you is nothing you couldn't obtain yourself through extremely careful observation. This changes when purchased hand histories come into play -- but those are rightfully outlawed from most sites whereas basic HUDs are not.

Regarding MTT and HUD, it is actually possible to open up several tables which you are not sitting at in the MTT to get reads on opponents in the event you reach the final table and to accumulate some stats on them before actually sitting with them. However, you can and probably should open up tables when the MTT gets down to about 4-5 tables anyways and manually take notes on your opponent even without a HUD -- actually, doing so without a HUD may even be better because HUD stats in such small sample sizes and towards the end of an MTT can give you some really weird stats that might lead you astray.

please educate yourself on what a HUD actually does before making wild statements like this.

I guess what i was trying to say is that I played for about 3 months and never heard of HUDS or even rake back. I used Pokeredge for the free trial and had i big diifrence in my play. I know understand that PEdge is a data mining software and i thought HEM and PT where the same thing. Yes there is a huge diffrence between these. I think huds and RB everybody should know when they first sign up. I still think people should use their brain instead of tracking software since you cant use tracking devices in live poker. I play micros so HUD might not be that important. What makes everybody think I don't know what a hud is? HUDs are the same thing as Pokeredge accept you have collect the data threw play.

Saying PE is equal to PT3/HEM is like saying using steroids is equal to working hard. It just doesn't equate. Using PE is cheating and it's against the rules of almost all sites. Getting caught using PE will result in your account being banned.

You also can't play live poker in your underwear, should that be banned online as well?

That's where most people's complaints about HUDs come from, without considering that live poker =/= online poker. There is no requirement for them to be exactly the same game. You can't multitable live poker, you can't play Rush Poker live (or at all anymore). It's not required to be the same game.

Found the thread with the guy i tried to take up for.The thing about this subject is it comes up a lot(to much) an people over look the thought that some people starting out have 0 idea what a HUD is.Read this OP.
tracker defense!!

To be honest, I believe banning HUDs altogether will be good for the game in general. For one, there won't be anymore masstabling nits killing all the action. Come on, you can't pay diligent attention to every hand when playing 6+ tables, can you?

Sorry but there are a few misconceptions here:
1) Multi-tabling nits don't kill the action, they actually generate $ for the poker economy.
2) Even without a HUD what makes you think people still can't or won't multitable?
3) Some people can multi-table quite effectively at up to 20 tables or more (not me I hasten to add!). If you come across a multi-tabler who can't then you have an edge over him - exploit it.