new help with new anti-gambling GF

My new GF is opposed to gambling. So am I, but "gambling" to me means sucker games such as blackjack and lottery tickets. If you were in my position what would you say to her to help her at least accept that I'm not going to stop playing poker--without having to end the relationship?

If they don't accept you for what you are, it's time to move on... she's entitled to her opinions, but not to tell you what to do... I've had a lot of difficulties explaining matched betting to people, so I know where you're coming from, but frankly most people have a closed mind about it, so it's not really worth trying to convince them otherwise...

Poker is a game of skill, but nevertheless gambling as well. Double edged sword my friend.

From a legal definition perspective, most governments would disagree with you. It's either a game of chance or a game of skill. You don't get to be both. I think the confusion comes in because there is still an element of luck in poker, however that does not make it a game of chance (gambling).

Not really. Show her your lifetime graph to prove that good luck and bad luck even out in the long run while skill prevails. Problem solved.

What if he's a losing player? (No offense, just saying.) Looks like you guys just aren't made for each other. If you disagree about this, you probably disagree about a lot of big issues. Sit down and talk about the to see if it's even worth continuing the relationship (people don't change much).

Gambling has an economic definition, referring to wagering money or something of material value on an event with an uncertain outcome with the primary intent of winning additional money. Which in essense is what poker is and has been since its inception. btw when I looked up the definition of gambling......there was a picture of 3 people playing poker circa 1594.

Play the George Thorogood song "If You Don't Start Drinking, I'm Gonna Leave" and substitute the word gambling as you sing it loudly.

She will get the hint.

Sorry, game of skill =/= game of chance.

If you don't start drinking, I'm gonna gambling?

Whilst I would not be so presumptuous as to argue with the dictionary, by this definition "investment" on the stock market would have to be categorised as gambling. Also, most pension schemes (which invest in in the stock market, or any other market that can fluctuate eg gold, oil, currency etc) would be considered gambling.

Getting back to OP, I would say that plan A would be to discuss with your gf the concept of poker, perhaps invite her to oversee a session or two. If she is not sufficiently open minded to agree to this, then I'd say that you are better of finding a new gf rather than a new hobby (sorry to be so blunt).

Likewise, if after discussion / sampling poker her attitude to the game has not changed I would tell her to accept you for what you are, not what she wants you to be. I would say the same if she objected to you drinking alcohol, smoking cigarettes or any other 'habit' that you have that she may disagree with.

You are what you are - if you try to change to meet the requirements of others, there are fundamental problems imho.

Regards

Bolt.

if I can inject some actull advice here?

you just need to find a medium with GF, my wife hates that I play poker and now that im starting to bet on horse's I know she is going to hate that. I know its more of the time I spend playing then the actual money because I never play with money that is needed but extra money. You just need to sit her down and tell her. "look this is what I enjoy doing but it wont interfere with us at all" and mean what you say dont just say it to make her happy. Like tell her every Wednesday and Friday I play these certain tournements or this is the time I spend in my cash games and then set apart other day for you guys to spend time together.

no one in life is always going to like 100% of what you do but guess what in order to make a relationship work its give and take.

I think you just tell GF "Bye Bye!" and "Good Luck finding that moral guy you need". And find someone more compatible!

She, being the controlling btch she probably is, will discount your truly best wishes for good luck in her quest, and you will know for sure you called correctly!

Assuming you enjoy poker you tell her "I play poker. You don't have to like poker but you do have to respect the fact that I like it, or this thing isn't going to work".

She's not going to get a lot of sympathy on a forum like this. Tally one more vote for "Go to hell".

If you really like to play poker find a new girlfriend. Unless you are losing money you can not afford to lose. If that is the issue then stop gambling lol.

Seriously, if poker a big hobby of yours, find a new girlfriend. It'll be hell later on and will start many fights. :P

have her play a SNG on your account and watch her change her mind after her 92 > KK

Have you EVER dated a WOMAN before??????

These guys trying to reason with intelligent proposals to why poker isnt gambling....HA.....No chance

Got to show her the........

In over four decades of life I've had two GFs. The first one, when I was 30, was simply a mistake. This one is the only woman--or even man!--I've had extensive contact with who understands me. I'm a complicated guy and my life is convoluted and she doesn't belittle it or dismiss it with pat phrases. That's very important to me. But so is poker. I lose about $80 a month so I'm not a winning player but I'm not an addict, either.

Thanks for all the replies. I'd like to hear more from people who are adamant that it's not going to work out between us. Why isn't it?

I understand poker in terms of positive and negative expectations. Blackjack is negative expectation because the game is designed so that the house wins. Poker is neutral expectation because you don't play against the house, you play against other players, and you all theoretically have an equal chance of winning. If I'm wrong about this I'm happy to stop playing poker because I only feel disgust for people who waste all their disposable income on lottery tickets. But this business of matched betting is new to me. Please explain it to me.

I should add that the people in my life don't have the time of day for the explanation I just gave. To them it's either "poker bada boom bada boom doo doo doo do waa waa" or "poker eww yuck." It hardly ever gets beyond that.

Posted by a person who calls themselves Jack Daniels????????

hey here's a thought..........does your new GF have anything she does to occupy her personal time that doesn't include you? ie: working out, nails, shopping, girls night out, a hobby...etc? compromise and give eachother a little personal time..you pick poker. wah-lah.
Of course this wont work if she chooses to bitch about your poker playing as her personal hobby. rofl. good luck Ahab.

peace

I think the money is going to be a big issue for her. I mean, would she have a problem with if you were playing video games instead?

If you're winning, I wouldn't highlight that. That is, I'd try to make it about the game rather than the money. You enjoy playing, and you're be willing to play even if you were losing.

If you're winning, or losing a little, maybe compare it to playing arcade games. Arcade games nowadays are what, $.50 or $1 to play? And console games like Halo 3 are $60. So they have a financial investment as well. And at least with poker you have social interaction with others, and tend to use your mind a bit more.

Or maybe compare it to golf? What does a set of golf clubs cost, and how much does a round cost?

She scrapbooks. To her credit she doesn't seem to feel a need to engage my interest in her hobby, but her hobby has a better street rep than mine.

If she really understands you, she'll understand that you enjoy playing poker, it's that simple. If she doesn't then perhaps you're wrong. If poker isn't truly part of you and you can give it up, then do. But I fail to see how if you really enjoy playing poker how someone who "understands" you can not understand or be opposed to your poker playing.


Besides poker?


If you want to make it work, you can make it work. There are 3 ways it can work.

1. You give up poker
2. She learns to accept that you play poker
3. (much more likely) there's some compromise, you make promises such as limiting your poker playing or certain times where you will be with her and that will be poker free.

It's hard to respond to this when you won't go further than "anti-gambling". Does she think it's stupid and you're throwing away money? Is she morally opposed to gambling? Does she think you'll turn into a gambling addict? As in poker, your situation is "it depends"

Just tome insight that you can do as you will with it!!!!!!!!!
I have three very frowned upon hobbies by the general public.
1: I keep big snakes and am planning on starting to work with venomous soon as well.
2: I am heavily tattooed over most of my body which is very frowned upon in many circles.
3: I play poker 90 percent of my free time which isn't keeping me busy with college or physical therapy or numerous other things that fill my life with stress.
If and When I finally find the special lady that can put up with all of my quirks and be my best friend then iI will let her fill out an application and go from there.

Once you hit the top ranks of the billiards world there's loads of luck involved. Great players rarely miss shots. You have to get lucky if you're not breaking, and even if you do get a turn, you have to be lucky to not have a total crap set up.

You see it all the time in 9 ball. Someone will clean up the table only to choke on the 9 and then the other player sinks the 9 and wins.

Plain and simple, playing poker is enjoyable to you and in no way does it affect who you are.
This is what you tell her

Easiest (well maybe not the easiest but the best) solution is to start winning and sharing your "ill-begotten" gains. Women like things (men like things too but we're not talking about them). So if you're having fun and are more able to buy things, she'll be more accepting of you playing.

My wife has no problem with me playing almost every weekend live and everyday online as long as when I have a good night out, I take her out for dinner (or a movie or whatever) with some of the funds. So study up and start winning and things will work out.

Show here this:


Original Essay
Two Plus Two
by David Sklansky & Alan N. Schoonmaker, Ph.D.
Many people have argued that poker should be considered differently from gambling in general. This argument has been made in discussions of legalization and related topics. Their argument is usually that poker is a skill game, while other gambling games are much less dependent upon skill.
We agree, but believe that they have not gone far enough in explaining many of poker's unique attributes. Poker does not just require skill. It demands and develops many skills and personal qualities which are essential for making all types of decisions, such as choosing a career, investing money, performing a job, and buying a house.

POKER IS A GREAT TEACHER.

Research clearly proves that people tend to repeat rewarded actions and to discontinue punished ones. Poker teaches by rewarding desirable actions such as thinking logically and understanding other people and by punishing undesirable ones such as ignoring the odds and acting impulsively.2 Other learning principles also apply to poker.

Learning Depends Upon Feedback.

Rewards and punishments are valuable feedback. The faster and clearer the feedback is, the more rapidly you will learn. Unfortunately, for learning many desirable qualities the feedback cycle is slow or unclear. For example, if you make a mistake with an important customer, you may never know why you lost his business. At the poker table you often get much quicker feedback.
Until fairly recently, most people learned how to play poker primarily from trial and error. Over the past few decades a rapidly expanding body of books, videotapes, DVDs, classes, and coaches has helped millions of players to speed up the learning curve, but there is no substitute for experience. You have to make good and bad plays and get rewarded and punished to learn poker's most important lessons.

The More Frequently You Get Feedback, The Faster You Will Learn.

Most important real life decisions are made infrequently, and some of them - such as choosing a career - may be made only once. Poker players make and get feedback on hundreds of decisions every session, which greatly accelerates the learning process.

Lessons Learned In One Situation Often Generalize To Other Situations.

If poker's lessons applied only to how to play games, we would not have written this article. But its lessons apply to virtually every aspect of life. For example, if you are impatient or illogical or can't analyze risks and rewards, you will lose at poker, and you will make many mistakes in business and personal relationships. If poker teaches you how to control your emotions, you will be much more effective almost everywhere.

Young People Generally Learn More Quickly Than Older Ones.

Poker's enemies often insist that they are protecting young people from developing bad habits, but they are really preventing them from learning good ones. Young people love to gamble, sometimes for money, often for much more "things" such as grades, pregnancy, and even their lives.
They get a kick from taking chances, and some of their gambles are just, plain stupid. They risk dying or becoming crippled by crazy stunts on roller skates, bicycles, and snowboards. They get pregnant or AIDS by taking easily avoided sexual risks. It is as impossible to prevent young people from "gambling" (in its broadest sense) as it is to prevent them from experimenting sexually.
Life is intrinsically risky, and learning how to handle those risks is an important part of growing up. Poker teaches you to think of risks and rewards before acting. If it taught nothing else, poker would prevent some young people from making terrible mistakes. More generally, most of poker's lessons will help young people to make critically important decisions.

POKER IMPROVES YOUR STUDY HABITS.

Because you want to be respected, you and nearly everyone else naturally develop high status qualities and neglect low status ones. Unfortunately, status among Americans - especially young ones - is based primarily on physical attractiveness and athletic ability. The highest status people, the ones others envy and want to date, are physically attractive and good at games such as football, basketball, and soccer. Of course, the good looking, athletic children will probably end up working for the more studious ones, but they may not learn that lesson until it is too late.
American students score abysmally on tests of math, science, and verbal skills partly because so many of them think that study is unimportant. They are not stupider than Europeans, Asians, and South Americans, but they are taught from birth that they will be rewarded for looking good and playing athletic games well.
Worse yet, they learn that being studious is often punished. Their parents may be delighted when they get good grades, but young people care immensely about their peers' opinions. Good students are called "nerds" and "geeks."
This anti-intellectualism continues indefinitely. Americans reward good looks and athletic ability far more than studiousness. Models, actors, and athletes get paid several times as much and have much higher status than scientists, teachers, and scholars.
Young people resist studying math, psychology, logic, risk-reward analysis, probability theory, and many other subjects they will need as adults because these subjects seem unrelated to their lives. They don't see how learning them matters in the competitions they care about, the ones for status, popularity, and dates. Since people rarely study these subjects after graduation, many Americans never learn them.
Poker quickly teaches them the value of these subjects. The "nerds" who study poker and subjects such as math, logic, and psychology crush their more attractive and athletic opponents. They even beat smarter people who are too lazy or complacent to study. Winning increases their status and confidence and makes them much more likely to get dates and influence their peers. Poker doesn't just develop study habits and other important qualities; it also increases the value people place on them.

POKER DEVELOPS YOUR MATH SKILLS.

Americans are terrible at math. Our students get abysmal scores on math tests, and most people don't even try to learn math after leaving school. Their weaknesses remain uncorrected forever.
Many people are not just bad at math; they don't even want to get better. They essentially say, "Who needs it?" When they play poker, they quickly learn that they need it. The winners understand and apply it, while the losers either don't try or can't perform the necessary calculations. After their children started playing poker, many parents have exclaimed, "I'm amazed. He actually wants to study math."

POKER DEVELOPS YOUR LOGICAL THINKING.

Many authorities are appalled by Americans' contempt for logic. Instead of thinking logically, too many of us make poor assumptions, rely on intuition, or jump to emotionally-based conclusions.
Poker teaches you to respect and apply logic because it is a series of puzzles. Since you don't know the other players' cards, you need logic to help you to figure out what they have, and then more logic to decide how to use that information well. The same general approach that works in poker will help you to make much more important decisions.

POKER DEVELOPS YOUR CONCENTRATION.

The first step toward solving poker or real life problems is acquiring the right information. Without it you will certainly make costly mistakes. Poker develops information-gathering qualities, especially concentration. Every poker player has missed signals, including quite obvious ones, made mistakes, and then berated himself, "How could I be so stupid?" We can't think of a more effective way to develop concentration.

POKER DEVELOPS YOUR PATIENCE.

Americans are notoriously impatient, which damages many aspects of our lives. We owe trillions of dollars because we buy things on credit instead of waiting until we can pay for them. Our businesses overemphasize short-term results and lose market share to more patient foreign competitors.
Poker develops patience in the most powerful possible way. If you wait patiently for the right situation, you will certainly beat the impatient people who play too many hands. In fact, for most players poker's first lesson is "Be Patient."

POKER DEVELOPS YOUR DISCIPLINE.

Many people lack discipline. They yield to their impulses, including quite destructive ones. Poker develops discipline by rewarding it highly. Virtually all winning players are extremely disciplined.
Their discipline affects everything they do. They fold hands they are tempted to play. They resist the urge to challenge tough players. They avoid distractions, even pleasant ones like chatting with friends or sexually attractive strangers. They don't criticize bad players whose mistakes cost them money. They control their emotions. They have the self-control to do the necessary, but unpleasant things that most people won't do.
Television has created a ridiculously inaccurate image of poker. After seeing famous players screaming and trash-talking, viewers naturally assume that such antics are normal. They are utterly mistaken. Television directors show these outbursts for "dramatic value," and a few players act stupidly to get on TV. You will see more outbursts in a half hour of television than in a month in a card room. Please remember that controlled people are often called "poker faced."

POKER TEACHES YOU TO FOCUS ON THE LONG TERM.

Impatience is not the only cause for short-sightedness. Learning research proves that immediate rewards have much greater impact on people than delayed ones. For example, most American adults are overweight because the immediate pleasure of overeating is more powerful than its disastrous long-term effects such as heart attacks.
Poker players quickly learn that a bad play can have good results and vice versa, but that making decisions with positive, long-term expectation (EV) is the key to success. If you make enough negative EV plays, you must lose. If you make enough positive EV plays, you must win. It is just that simple.
If people thought more of the long term, some of our most serious problems would be solved or become less troublesome. Because of short-sightedness, millions of children drop out of school or get pregnant, and millions of adults neglect their health and finances.

POKER TEACHES YOU THAT FORGOING A PROFIT EQUALS TAKING A LOSS (AND VICE VERSA).

Economists call lost profits "opportunity costs" and they have written extensively about them. Unfortunately, most people haven't read their works, and, if they did, they probably wouldn't agree. They would much rather pass up a chance to make a dollar than risk losing one. They therefore miss many profitable opportunities.
Poker teaches you that lost profits are objectively the same as losses. For example, if the pot offers you 8-to1, and the odds against you are 5-to-1, you should call the bet. Not calling is the same as throwing away money by making a bad call when the odds are against you.

POKER DEVELOPS YOUR REALISM.

You and everyone else deny unpleasant realities about yourself, other people, and many other subjects. You believe what you want to believe. Poker develops realism in the cruelest, but most effective way. If you deny reality about yourself, the opposition, the cards, the odds, or almost anything else, you quickly pay for it.
Hundreds of times a night you must assess a complicated situation: your own and the other players' cards, what the others are going to do, the probability that various cards will come on later rounds, your position, and many other factors, especially your own and the other players' skill and playing style. If you are realistic, you win. If you deny reality, you lose.

POKER TEACHES YOU HOW ADJUST TO CHANGING SITUATIONS.

Most people don't ask themselves, "How is this situation different?" They just do whatever they have always done. Poker demands adjustments because the situation is always changing. One card can convert a worthless hand such as a four flush into an unbeatable one. The player holding the flush and all the opponents should adjust immediately. The player with the winning hand should do whatever will produce the most profit, and the others should cut their losses.
Other things are changing as well. One hand after being in the small blind, the worst position, you have the button, the best position. Every time someone quits and is replaced by a different type of player, the game changes. Every time someone surprises you by folding, checking, betting, or raising you should re-evaluate the situation and adjust to the new information.
Adjusting to real life changes has always been necessary, but it is has become much more important because the pace of change has accelerated enormously. We now experience more changes every year than our ancestors encountered in decades. Technology, the economy, social and moral attitudes, and a host of other factors change so dramatically that Alvin Toffler: "coined the term 'future shock' to describe the shattering disorientation we induce in individuals by subjecting them to too much change in too short a time."3 He argued, "Change is avalanching upon our heads, and most people are grotesquely unprepared to cope with it."4 Poker can help you to cope with our constantly changing world.

POKER TEACHES YOU TO ADJUST TO DIVERSE PEOPLE.

Most people - especially younger ones - have little experience with diverse people. They live in relatively homogenous towns and neighborhoods and usually relate to people who are fairly similar to themselves.
In online and casino poker games, you have to play with whoever sits down. You must compete against very different kinds of people: aggressive and passive, friendly and nasty, educated and uneducated, quiet and talkative, intelligent and stupid, emotionally controlled and uncontrolled, and so on.
You therefore learn how to understand and adjust to people who think and act very differently from you. The faster you and better you do it, the better results you will get. Since you will certainly meet diverse people in more important situations, learning how to relate to them is extremely valuable.