My latest experiment: OMAHA

So...

With my SNG challenge over and done with (result: adequate), I am starting down what is for me a totally new path: Omaha.

The reason I'm trying Omaha is several-fold:

(1) My strength in poker, especially online, is more analytical than it is people-reading. I believe that this strength will serve me better in Omaha due to its 4 hole card structure, especially Omaha Hi/Lo.
(2) Just for a change of pace!
(3) Somewhere in the back of my mind, I have visions of making the final table of a live tournament. I might have a better chance of cashing in a NLHE tourney because of all the fish who see it on TV and want to play, and Omaha tourneys might be filled with very strong players, but as I understand it one tends to plateau in Omaha and the edge of a super player vs. a good player is much smaller than in NLHE. That plus the smaller number of entries in most large Omaha tournies is intriguing to me.

So... off we go.

I'm going to start with very, very low stakes just to get my head around the game, which by the way will be Omaha Hi/Lo limit full-tabled ring. Once I get the hang of it, after say 1,000 hands, I'll move up to slightly more meaningful stakes, moving up after each 1,000 hands if I am still winning until I reach a level more suited to my bankroll. I know these are very brief stages, but I won't be able to keep myself interested at $0.01/$0.02 forever.

Naturally, I will report back! If any of you Omaha pros have comments or advice, I sure would appreciate it.

If you're looking for the most non-people, mechanical poker game, then LOH8 is it. Sticking to a tight preflop hand selection, along with a half-decent set of limit skills will give you a nice profit.

Looking at your sng stats, i can see you're a very capable player, and I'll actually suggest starting a little higher stakes than you say you will. People are pretty weak at the OH8 tables.

Good luck Beriac

Thanks for the advice and encouragement, ChuckTs. Don't worry, at the pace I play, I will be up a few levels quite quickly. I've already got my first 1,000 hands in, it just took me awhile to get around to posting this.

It feels pretty weird to seek a mechanical game, but I figure I may as well play to my strengths and it would be a great bankroll builder/game to have in the repertoire.

Speaking of which, before I update, anyone know a good way to paste a stat line from PokerTracker as an image? Do I have to just print/screen it?

Oh and by the way I have no limit skills, so that may take some time to build also!

If you had to say what you thought were the 2-3 keys to Limit vs. No Limit, what would they be?

i'm no Limit conoisseur, but I think the main thing is to constantly bang at pots when you have a hand instead of slowplaying. Especially at the smaller limits since most will cold-call 3-bets with very weak hands anyways.
The only time you should slowplay is if you have completely crippled the deck (ie hit 4 aces on the flop, because almost noone will call a bet; but even in OH8, people will call down with KKxx type hands anyways, so might aswell lead out.)
I dunno maybe some better limit players can give you some better tips, but that's the best one I know

Update!

So I've played my first 1,000 hands at $0.02/$0.04. I have to say, the competition here is weak. Something like 60-70% of folks are seeing the flop, and a strategy as simple as "call with a top 10% hand, call to showdown only with the nuts, fold otherwise" seems to be profitable.

I used the low limit hands just to get the hang of Omaha. For the first few hundred hands, I would periodically see a full house where there was none (gotta be 2 of my hole cards! not 3! not 1!), misjudge the nut low (23 better than A4!), etc. But I've mostly got the hang of it now.

So far, I still have my training wheels on, and I'm using a hybrid of the McEvoy/Cloutier strategy with the Hutchison points system. Once I've gone through this a zillion times and I really understand what the borderline calling hand is in different situations, I'll branch out some.

$0.02/$0.04 stats
Hands: 1,000
VP$IP: 30.90%
Amount won: $1.88
BB/100 hands: 4.70

Any other key stats I oughta have up there?

Off to $0.05/$0.10.

Cheers,
Beriac

Yeah, alot of easy money at the O8 tables. I hadn't even played a hand of h/l in my life I just read a quick tips guide from some random poker site and I was a winning player just by sticking to premium hands at the shorthanded tables.

Beriac,

hey, good luck.

your strength of being analytical should serve

you well in omaha....probably why i do

so poorly with it.

donvic

There seem to be some people here who know Omaha, let me ask you this:

How high in limit can you play LO8 before either the number of players dries up or gets really, really strong?

Welcome to Omaha

Omaha is a game more suited to poker purists. If you are razor sharp with pot odds you are likely to find you have more of an advantage than you do in holdem.

I have a very specific strategy in cash games, which I am not prepared to mention here, but a few very general tips wont hurt :-

1) Most newcomers to Omaha will invariable start along the lines of playing A2xx type hands. Alot of players often stick to this almost relentlessly. The net result is that if a pot is going to be quartered then it is often more likely to favour the high hand.

2) Dont go crazy on the flop just because you have hit 2 pr or a set, getting out drawn in Omaha is so much more likely than Holdem, for very obvious reasons. If you are going to bet your set heavy, then make sure you do it on flops with the least possible potential draws.

3) If your going to move a large volume of cash in to a pot, then probably the best time is this :- There are 4 cards on the board, 2 of which are low. You are sat on the nut high, of a type which is statisically very unlikely to get outdrawn. Then move your chips in now. Often you will get calls from someone solely on a nut low draw, which obviously means you are a great chance of pulling the whole pot, not just half.

4) Remember the rake. If you are in a pot with one other and it is very likely (from the board and the betting) that you are going to split the pot, then remember your bets will simply increase the rake and you will be left with less than you started with.

Anyway, gl

Welly

Great post, Welly. Thanks for the tips.

I would say that especially #1 is something that is consistent with what I've seen but that I've never really thought about: every beginner's manual to Omaha says go for the low, and sure enough I've had a lot more success scooping with high only hands. #3 is a great extension of that.

#4 I haven't really encountered yet as I have been playing rakeless micro-less stakes at Stars!

And #2 was probably one of the first lessons I learned, after calling down top 2 pair a couple of times you learn its (lack of) value! Thankfully I plugged that leak fairly fast.

Merci beaucoup for the tips Welly. If I may ask, where do you play and at what stakes?

Update!

I've played my second 1,000 hand set, this time at the $0.05/$0.10 tables, mostly 3-4 tabling. I'm pretty happy with the results.

I played a lot less hands, mostly because I am getting more patient and also getting my starting hands down. This has helped my results tremendously. It might not show in the BB/100, but for the most part that stat ranged at 6-8 during this set, dropping at the end when I lost 2 key hands, 1 to a draw someone made and 1 to a draw that I did not make. But by and large, I am confident in my game.

I continue to make certain mistakes:
* In limit I find curiousity gets me to call me down certain hands I'd probably fold to the size of bet I might see in no limit.
* And sometimes I have the second-nuts but a feeling that my opponent has the nuts -- I need to learn to listen to that instinct.

I generally need to continue to work on my post-flop play. It's hard to do that at this level, as the level of play is so low that whether I bet on the flop or wait for the turn isn't as likely to affect my EV against a calling station.

$0.05/$0.10 stats
Hands: 1,020
VP$IP: 24.12%
Amount won: $3.54
BB/100 hands: 3.47

I also tried 1 LO8 SNG, finishing 4th after I adjusted excessively to getting 4/5-handed.

Off to $0.10/$0.20. I know this process is painful insofar as the limits are pretty low compared to what I could do, but I am using it as a chance to perfect the basic mechanics of my game as well as my pre-flop game so that at least I have my wits about my when I get to higher limits.

Do any sites have consistently more LO8 action than Stars?

Cheers,
Beriac

Update!

So I continued movin' on up, this time to $0.50/$1.00.

-- wait, hold the phone, what did you say, $0.50/$1.00? that's not exactly the next step up from nickel/dime poker... what gives eh? --

Good point, I'm glad you asked. Well, the next step up from Stars $0.05/$0.10 was $0.10/$0.25, and I found zero action there for some reason. There was a little going on at $0.25/$0.50, but not enough to really have table selection or even to double table sometimes. This is where Welly came to play a role, helpfully pointing out that the Omaha action was at Party. I checked it out, and sure enough, there were tons of tables for LO8, but they started at $0.50/$1.00. So, that's where I went.

I was pleasantly surprised by the calibre of the competition. No, not in the "good for my game" way, the "good for my bankroll way".

Looking back at my game here, I'm still pretty happy with it. I'm still chugging away 4 big bets per 100 hands while multitabling. I've got the dynamics of Omaha mostly down now. I'm gaining a better sense of whether others are playing to the high or low, which I have a shot against, and what that means for my pot odds and whether I should check/bet/raise/call/fold.

I'm also making less technical errors, but still every so often I forget to bet/raise the nut high on the river against multiple opponents or accidentally do just that with a quartered nut low. My hand selection also appears to be tightening up.

Progress...

$0.50/$1.00 stats
Hands: 1,001
VP$IP: 20.18%
Amount won: $41.15
BB/100 hands: 4.11

Cheers,
Beriac

Bonus: When I moved some of my cash back to Party, there was a nice 15% bonus offer waiting for me, which 1k hands of Omaha just barely helped me release! Whoo!

Good work Beriac. I got some free cash from Party recently so dispite my hatred for the site and most players, I've been playing PLO8 there as well. One thing I notice is that players there highly overrate trips and a potential nut low draw. I'm sure you've noticed it but if not, take a peek and see if you make the same observation.

Nice posts and thanks for the updates on your omaha game.
Ditto that no one in the lower limits will lay down a hand. The higher limits are better because people will lay down preflop. I try to only play Pot Limit omaha, I can't stand limit poker especially omaha. You have to be able to drive out draws with bets and pot limit is the place you can.

I think omaha has helped my holdem game, it helps me know what nut hands are-and how often draws hit.

I also play a lot of omaha HL-great game. I still play holdem, and when I get steemed, I just go to the omHL table and gamble.

GOOD LUCK, keep us updated

If anyone's interested, I'm planning on a Omaha Hi/Lo sit n go tournament on Prima on Thursday around 6pm est. Look in the "Omaha Anyone?" thread in the Suggestions forum for more info.