My chances of succeeding at 25NL with 150 dollar BR?

#1 11-08-2007, 3:24 AM

Alright, here is my situation. I really am sick of playing SnGs and 10max and I currently have 150 dollars on PS. I am a winning player at 25max at bodog with a 18PTBB/100 over 5000 hands. I am very underrolled to play 25max, but do you think I would have any chance to succeed with only 6 buy-ins? I would only single table until I was properly bankrolled. Am I just being stupid right now? Should I continue with my 5 dollar SnGs? Or do you think I have a decent shot at succeeding at 25max and building a BR that can actually sustain it?

#2 11-08-2007, 3:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bw07507

Alright, here is my situation. I really am sick of playing SnGs and 10max and I currently have 150 dollars on PS. I am a winning player at 25max at bodog with a 18PTBB/100 over 5000 hands. I am very underrolled to play 25max, but do you think I would have any chance to succeed with only 6 buy-ins? I would only single table until I was properly bankrolled. Am I just being stupid right now? Should I continue with my 5 dollar SnGs? Or do you think I have a decent shot at succeeding at 25max and building a BR that can actually sustain it?

depends how you feel I guess, if this is all your money then just be smart and know that it is very possible you could go through a sick run of coolers and be bust.

if you are ok with this then go for it, if not I wouldnt.

#3 11-08-2007, 3:33 AM

Do you need the money urgently? If you don't, why not build your BR properly?

And why are you sick of sngs and 10 max?

#4 11-08-2007, 3:35 AM

BW I have thought the same way you have of playing and trust me when I say under bankrolled no matter how good you play you can go bust pretty easy.

I have gone through a lot of deposits this way because of me being impatient. I turley suggest just grinding it out.

#5 11-08-2007, 4:31 AM

The money isnt a big issue, but I dont really want to deposit again so I think Im gonna stick to 5 dollar SnGs. I think I just need a little break. I have been playing a lot lately and starting to get a little bored. I have around a 40% ROI in my first 90 games at PS. That is slightly unsustainable I believe, but I guess I will just try to grind it out. I will wait til I atleast have 350 to try to make a run at 25NL. This will be a good test of my self control to see if I can truly wait and grind it out.

#6 11-08-2007, 4:42 AM

I'd say if the money isn't a big issue to you (if you can afford to lose it), then why not gamble a little bit and see where it takes you. I know if I had to drop down even one level in stakes (down to the $6.50s), I couldn't do it. I'd hate to drop back there and try to grind it back.

If you're looking to properly build up a 'roll and work your way up the stakes ladder, and your impatience is the only thing that's holding you back, then I'd say just take it easy and stick to games that fit your roll.

#7 11-08-2007, 4:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bw07507

Alright, here is my situation. I really am sick of playing SnGs and 10max and I currently have 150 dollars on PS. I am a winning player at 25max at bodog with a 18PTBB/100 over 5000 hands. I am very underrolled to play 25max, but do you think I would have any chance to succeed with only 6 buy-ins? I would only single table until I was properly bankrolled. Am I just being stupid right now? Should I continue with my 5 dollar SnGs? Or do you think I have a decent shot at succeeding at 25max and building a BR that can actually sustain it?

Experts say you should never sit down with more than 10% of your bankroll. That means they'd have you stick with $10NL until you get at least $250 and can single-table at $25NL.

That being said, I think it also depends on your confidence. If you think you are good enough for $25NL now, then try it. If you think you might be a little shaky at it, don't try it. Also, you can have someone look at your HH's or sweat you a session via IM and tell you if you are ready. Are you signed up with Dbitel for a coaching session? He could tell you if you are ready.

#8 11-08-2007, 5:42 AM

Im fairly confident I can beat 25NL. I can definately beat it at Bodog, however PS will probably be slightly more challenging. However, after thinking it through, I dont really feel like going broke if I hit a bad run. Im gonna stick to the 5 dollar SnGs and play a few more of the 2 dollar MTTs and maybe I will get lucky and hit a big cash.

Something else that swayed my decision was when I played underrolled at bodog (50max with only a 150 BR) I tilted pretty bad and I think it was the fact that a bad beat was costing me much more than I could handle. Another thing is I need to stop withdrawing so much. I made a few large ($300+) purchases this summer with my profits playing poker and I kind of wish I left atleast one of those in there so I could keep playing the limits I was at (although I do love my new electric guitar and my xbox360, lol).

#9 13-08-2007, 6:51 AM

well first thing first congrats, on the purchases, with that being said, it really comes down to u and only u, like no one can tell u if u are ready or not to play at those levels yet. I realize when u play at a certain level for so long that u tend to get bored or discourage that your not at a certain level that u had made for yourslef or hoped u would be at. But like u said your self the money isn't really an issue, so with that said i'd personnaly stay at the level your at for the time being, because all it takes is one bad day, and then it's back to either the deposites, or free rolls, so it's your choice.....
What wil it be???

#10 13-08-2007, 7:14 AM

if you can redeposit go for it, otherwise grind 10nlhe

#11 13-08-2007, 8:17 AM

Hi all,
Hi bw, if your playing for fun and can afford the loss then this is probably irrelevant but it sounds like your fairly serious about poker playing and enjoy the things that come with cashing out so...

If you read the statements Chris Ferguson makes while playing his challenge he states that he hates dropping back to lower stake tables/tourneys but if his bankroll says he must then he does. It's not just being a good poker player that allows you to win, you have to be strict with your bankroll in order to keep on making profits consistently, that's why all the recommendations and guidelines are there, so you get the most out of your poker play.

I've taken some pretty big chances and sometimes they've paid off and sometimes they haven't, the times they haven't just wasn't worth it, but I learnt by my mistakes.

As said above it's ultimately down to you and it seems you are going to make the right decision, whatever you do eventually decide I wish you lots of good play, a little luck and plenty of wins.

Tony

#12 13-08-2007, 7:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrSticker

Experts say you should never sit down with more than 10% of your bankroll. That means they'd have you stick with $10NL until you get at least $250 and can single-table at $25NL.

He could also try buying in short for $10 and play a little hit 'n run or push when he thinks he has the best hand.

#13 13-08-2007, 10:04 PM

I would recommend sticking with what is working and build your roll. This is a good chance to work on impulse control and discipline. Two big differences between gamblers and skilled players

#14 14-08-2007, 1:22 AM

Reference the Chris Ferguson thread on his "0 to $10,000" experiment on Full Tilt. Hard to argue with success. He has used bankroll management, discipline, and solid play to grow a bankroll from $1 to $20,000 previously, and now is almost to his current goal of zero to $10K. I would recommend that you use a proven formula rather than jump into such an outrageous imbalance between your bankroll and the stakes that you're proposing. $150 in a $25 game sounds pretty shaky to me. Just my two cents.

#15 14-08-2007, 2:56 AM

thx for the advice everyone. I have been playing a 25NL game every once and awhile, but mostly sticking with the 5.50 S&Gs. Id like to have around $350 in my account b4 I attempt to single table 25NL full time, then once I have 500 I will start 2-tabling

#16 14-08-2007, 4:30 AM

$150 is by no means enough for 25NL, rammer. The point is that if the money's not an issue, and you want to a) test the waters at 25nl, and b) get away from the boredom of the low-limit grind, then go right ahead.

I know I do once in a while. I recently remembered about ~$100 I left on mansion poker, and decided to splurge with it. Took it to a 100nl table and am doing fine, though of course that now $250 bankroll is at risk every time I sit down, it's still fun. Mansion is SOOPER juicy btw

#17 14-08-2007, 6:47 AM

good decision bw , I think you're chances were slim and none , and slim already got on the bus. even if you're good it dont take many badbeats to clean your bankroll out. also if you can beat the games at bodog so easy it shouldn't be hard to build your br again .

I fail to understand why so many of you play more than one table . can you really be playing well when your attention is split like that? what do the experts say on that subject , anyone?

mr. sticker , I thought it was 5% of your br not 10% , AND i think even if you are good and can beat the 25/nl tables , you cant stop the up and down swings , playing above your banroll is like swinging between two walls , yes you can do it , but eventually you're going to hit the wall. jmo

#18 14-08-2007, 6:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaymfc

I fail to understand why so many of you play more than one table . can you really be playing well when your attention is split like that? what do the experts say on that subject , anyone?

They'd probably say that with practice and the proper software (PT + PAHUD), it'll skyrocket your winrate, decrease fun and increase stress

They'll also probably say that it's a waste playing online if you're not playing more than one table.

Once you start multitabling, you realize how playing a single table at a time is a huge disadvantage for you.

#19 14-08-2007, 7:03 PM

I have played more than one , I was going back and forth so much and had split seconds to make a decision , didnt know how anyone was playing (hence the software recomended) and was to stressed . I would have to skyrocket my winrate WAY before I played more than one table . and in that case I would keep moving up in levels and be making enough money to play live only ,then just play online to keep sharp and have fun. I'm not saying you're wrong , I'm just not good enough to understand yet.

#20 14-08-2007, 7:45 PM

I used to have the same problem with multi-tabling, but after I did it for awhile, it just becomes second nature. I can 2-table ring games and the early stages of a S&G without losing any significant edge I believe using PT and PAHUD. If I get down to the final 3 at both my S&G tables, then it gets a little trickier. I probably lose a little bit of an edge, but I am happy to take that knowing that I am playing twice as many tournaments in the same amount of time.

#21 15-08-2007, 9:01 PM

I have played up to four tables at a time and I have lost money doing it. No one short of a savant can possibly play that many tables well, especially when they cycle around for simultaneous decisions. I like playing two tables because I'm a very tight player and I fold 80% or more of my hands. It gets really tedious on a single table. I can handle two. More than that and I'm just screwing myself.

#22 15-08-2007, 9:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bw07507

I probably lose a little bit of an edge, but I am happy to take that knowing that I am playing twice as many tournaments in the same amount of time.

Is the object to see how much poker you can play in an hour or how much money you can make playing poker? Why in the world would anyone be willing to concede their edge just to play more hands? That's just crazy talk, imo.

#23 16-08-2007, 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RammerJammer

Is the object to see how much poker you can play in an hour or how much money you can make playing poker? Why in the world would anyone be willing to concede their edge just to play more hands? That's just crazy talk, imo.

It's not about playing more hands, it's about the winrate that comes with them.

If you lose a significant enough edge, say go from $10/hr to $5/hr, then playing two tables isn't going to make a difference. You'll still make $10/hr. But if you can either play 3+ tables with that same $5/hr, or maybe play 2 tables with even a $6/hr winrate, your total winrate will go up significantly.

It's basically a tradeoff of edge for total winrate.

That's why you see players like the_vanetian who have played tens of thousands of SNGs, but only have %8 ROI. He's making a significantly smaller ROI than me, for ex, but is still slaughtering me in winrate. Most of the top multitabling pros can play 12 or even like 20 tables.

You also don't need to be that savvy of a player to be able to do this. It just takes practice - I was completely incapable of 2 tables at first, but after a handful of tries at it with smaller-limit tables, I can now do 4 fine, with only a small edge lost.

#24 16-08-2007, 12:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaymfc

mr. sticker , I thought it was 5% of your br not 10% ,

Depends on the expert. I've read some say 5% and some say 10%. Of course, the lower the percentage, the safer a player is.

#25 16-08-2007, 2:04 AM

thanks mrsticker , I'm usually forced to play at least 10% anyway,

chuckts , I'm very tempted to try again till I get it down , winrates go way up with more tables , do they go way down with bad swings or does it even it out more ? is this something someone playing 5 or 10 % of their br on one table , should be trying ? risking 10 or 20% on two ?

#26 16-08-2007, 2:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaymfc

chuckts , I'm very tempted to try again till I get it down , winrates go way up with more tables , do they go way down with bad swings or does it even it out more ?

Well all you're doing is playing more hands in a shorter time, sacrificing some 'per-table' edge for winrate in the process. So basically you're making the long-term shorter. If you're a tilt-prone player who can't quite handle more than 1 table, then I'd definitely suggest sticking to one.

Try out playing either play money tables or at least lower stakes to get the hang of it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaymfc

is this something someone playing 5 or 10 % of their br on one table , should be trying ? risking 10 or 20% on two ?

The rule is X percent (5 or 10, it's now apparently up for debate) per table. It doesn't matter if you've got %100 of your bankroll in play, as long as you have it split up properly. Again though, you would have to be experienced enough to be successful playing that many tables, so watch out.

#27 16-08-2007, 2:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrSticker

Of course, the lower the percentage, the safer a player is.

Exactly - I think the less experienced you are, the smaller % of your bankroll you should be playing with. Even for more experienced players, it's just plain safer to play with a smaller %.

I personally play with like %3 of mine.


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