To my cardschat family respected members my suspicions where confirmed.

I had put up a thread regarding if the sell of play money chips could some how be a nagitave thing for poker sites.

I had some responces from people that I love to read their threads and posts cause they are good people that share allot on here and that I have learned allot from

This is for ozexorcist bazerk bigjokerbb and others thanks you guys for all you knowledge on cc.

So I thought I would give back to them and update them on something they thought was otherwise.

Here is my original thread
Need some business minded people to answer this question.

Now here is an artical about what has happened latley that clearly shows my suspicions where valid.

http://www.pokernewsdaily.com/uproar...decision-8056/

"Seemingly behind the decision was the selling of play money chips outside of the playing arena on PartyPoker. As detailed in the story on Poker News Daily, some sites offered one billion chips for $400. This, in PartyPoker’s mind, made for inequities in the play money games"

I didn't read the whole thing but it looks as if they made the decision not because it is hurting business per say (costing them money) but because those trying to get the millions of chips to sell were ruining the game by playing like idiots, thus making it not fun for the people who were actually trying to play.

Your orginal thread seemed to be saying that the negative effect on sites was somehow related to people playing with real money that they had not deposited from their own bank. I don't think this is a problem at all. The web site makes its money through the rake, which it only collects if there are active players. More players = More rake. If I sell play money to fund my account and use that to play in real money games, the web site still profits.

I'm not sure about Pooffy's suggestion that the play money sellers are the problem either. If they're playing like idiots then they will be losing and won't have any play money to sell. I don't think the buyers are the problem either because I can't imagine that many people willing to pay money just to cause grief.

I think the problem is probably players who are good enough to build a huge bankroll so that they don't really care about the money. They may enter a game and spew money just for the lulz if they can tilt a few players on the way. The reason the web sites don't want this is that it drives away players who might become real money players some day. But by stealing people's play money, they've probably already driven most of those away.

I think a better solution than limiting account size would be to make the play money "worth" more. The simplest way would be for the web site to buy it directly for a few $ per million. This would inject more real money players into the system and increase their rake. Or they could have play money tournaments for shopping credits or entries into freerolls. Anything would probably be better than what they did.

I got my suggestion from the article:

“For the benefit of the vast majority of our play money players, we have taken the decision to restrict the maximum number of play chips any single player may earn to (250,000 chips) because a very small minority of poker players have been disrupting games by betting large amounts on any kind of hand,” the e-mail stated. “They may think it’s fun but it’s certainly not for other players who understand fair play and enjoy the fun and excitement of playing poker games for free.”

Yeah your right about them, The poker site saying why the made the decision (This, in PartyPoker’s mind, made for inequities in the play money games")

Now about you saying,

"Because those trying to get the millions of chips to sell were ruining the game by playing like idiots"

Thats not my experience..

For one thing most play money tables have half the table if not more playing ultra aggressive so what your saying and what the poker site seems to say is not in my mind the reason why the caped the play money chips

I happen to be a person that buys and sells play chips all the time. I play solid (meaning I play according to the table) sometimes at 4 tables at a time and build up to a million on each table then sell them. To get allot of chips doesn't mean to go all in everytime in play money it doesnt work and for people like me who accumlate chips fast we do it with aggressive players who allready exist and most arent selling play chips like me.

I am still positive the selling of play chips is a nagetive thing for a poker site and this is a clear reason that it is and they are using the excuse that it makes for inequities in the play money games.

Not trying to offend. My post was going to say that I agreed with you about people ruining the game, but then I noticed that you added the idea that the sellers are the problem which isn't in the article. I disagreed with that because I think the play money sellers are the people who are transitioning to real money games and the web site should be encouraging that if they want more profit.

When I was trying to build up a sellable amount of play money, I certainly didn't want to throw it away by playing like an idiot.

I don't like your suggestion about having the player buy from the poker site etc etc .. Cause i get 9 bucks per million chips so please don't even suggest that lol.. I am positive now because of this cap thing that their is something negative that the poker site has found and thats what basically I was thinking even if i pin pointed on something for an answer in my earlier post about the sell of play chips . I know for sure now their is a negative feeling about the selling of play chips.Now to kinda go back to the thinking on my original post . Has their been action takin by other sites without us knowing ? I can think of some ways here and their lol..I think other sites have been keeping track of this play money sales but have dealt with it in their own way. This is party pokers way of dealing with it. I mean I'm not hallucination this is happening now !!!

Agreed , and thats what i said in reply also.

My bad, when the said players betting large amounts, I assumed it was those acruing them to sell them.
I don't play the play money games anywhere just because most of the players are betting with atc.

no problem Poofy ... Thanks for posting on my thread man !!

I don't see how this is a negative thing for the web site at all. The buyer is taking real money from his bank and giving it to the seller, usually with a third party poker taking a cut, in exchange for the play money. The third party poker broker account is probably used just for these types of transactions and is not being played with or generating any rake for the site.

Once it is transferred to the seller, the seller starts playing real money games and generating more rake. If he goes bust, it just means that he may decide to re-deposit, or he may build up his play money and sell it again, but he's not going to try to ruin the game for other play money players.

Meanwhile, the player who busted him may move up to higher limits and generate more rake, or he may withdraw some. But even if he withdraws, it was better for the web site to have this money be actively generating rake for a while than to have it sitting in the play money broker's account, or in the play money buyer's bank where it ultimately came from.

The only possible negative I can see is that the buyer is playing above his true skill level which may alter the nature of the games he plays in. But personally, I rather enjoyed waiting for the right moment and busting some idiot who came to my play money table. As long as I managed my bankroll, a few bad beats would not hurt me, and the idiot always loses in the end.

I am a Ho not a Bro

hahaha ,, Ok Poofy ,, your like flowers growing in snow ,,, all year long

Love you Poofy and have a great day !!

Tony

But if you're on party poker, now you can never have a large bankroll, so you won't be selling anything. (Unless this drives up the price of party poker play money due to a shortage... My broker suggests going long on party poker play money futures! ) What party poker has done is use a bazooka to swat a fly and I was proposing some more reasonable solutions. I've sold play money too on other sites, though now it seems I can only get about $4 per million for pokerstars chips, so it's hardly worth it. But if I were to go bust, I'd still rather sell play money than deposit my own.

I suspect party poker will have to change this policy because once you've reached the maximum bankroll, what will be the point of playing anymore? Play money players can go to any other site, and where will the fresh fish come from then?

[Update, 'cause I'm a new member and can't post any more today]
I just remembered that the cap doesn't apply to real money account holders, so maybe this is just their way of pushing more people to open real money accounts, but I don't think this has generated a lot of good will in the play money community, so it may backfire on them.

yeah its a very dumb thing they did. and it makes no sense thats why I think their is another reason why they did this . Thanks for your thoughts on reasons why they did this .. I sell and buy on pokerstars only..

I'm surprised pokerstars care, because people who are selling playchips will generally move into real money games when they have sold them, thus generating more rake.

correct .. but it wasn't pokerstars it was party poker

I have to agree with both of you on some what has been said. I tend to be leaning more towards x2486's comments though. I feel that Party Poker will lose in the long run. Because the buying and selling of those chips did not cost them any thing. And it generated more cash for them. Just like some people seem to think that the sites cheat or rig the games. It all can be disproved by logic so can this. The sites only make money from cash play. So why would they want to chase a way any customers. I still do not understand why someone would buy play money chips anyway in the first place. I will agree with nexus6 statement that there is some other underlying reason for the change in policy.

thanks for you thoughts ...

From another article on pokernewsdaily:

Our insider noted, “It gives you a way of advertising in the U.S. You can say that it’s not a gambling site and you hope that a decent percentage of those who sign up will decide to deposit real money.” However, the conversion rate is typically between 5% and 10%.

This seems to suggest two possible reasons for the change:

1) The selling of chips was threatening their ability to advertise in the US

But since US players can't play real money anyway, I don't see why that would matter.

2) The cost of managing a play money system was too high relative to the number of new paying customers it generated.

5%-10% seems like a pretty good conversion rate to me. I think a lot of companies would kill for a way to generate new business at that rate.

It still doesn't make much sense to me.

LOL Where getting closer thanks to you

Heres something that goes round in my brain a bit, I once deposited $50 on stars, went to bed later that night thinking, this poker thing is easy after turning it into the Fitty into $100, lol playing .10c/.20 ! (havnt been back there since I flopped A8 full house against AK, obv all the chips went in with his AAAK flop, and my AAA88 flop. King on the river. Quickly lost the rest. Then I began learning.

But I dont deposit, I win freeroll and try to build, currently building from free $50 too. I love it.

Heres the thing. If the poker sites have any kind of tracking software themselves, they know who is winning money that doesnt deposit. Theyll also know who is playing and never cashes out (me again), theyll know who can build, then donk it away (yup me again).

So would there be any advantage of taking the money from certain players (who are likely to lose and deposit again, and get it to the poker mad guys who'll never cashout their dollars because its just a numbert that will allow them to play and enjoy a bigger game.

There are obvious benefits here, and I cant help thinking about it when Im in a tourney without much in the roll , perhaps just a few dollars freeroll win, and I get pocket 8s, I raise and the flop is KJ9, bet the pot get called, score an 8, nh but still tricky. Bet again and get raised all in, make the call and a 9 on the river for my boat against flopped straight.

Knowing that Im unlikely to cash out it makes perfect sense to give me suckouts and get more cash.

These feeling are very deep and hidden, like less than 1%, just a niggling feeling I get sometimes, but have to ignore because if I actually beleived this for a moment I should stop wasting hours playing learning and practicing.

Why would they need to rig the site to take money from those who are "likely to lose"? Those people will do that job for them without any help.

This seems to contradict your previous statement. Now they're rigging the game to help someone with a small bankroll?

But if they give you extra suckouts (beyond what would be a normal distribution), then you'd be a winning player and might cash out, right? It seems like you're arguing both sides of this issue.

My general opinion is:

1) Online poker is a huge cash cow for the website owners and they really don't need to rig the game when the rake guarantees that they always win on every hand.

2) As a programmer, I think that it would be extremely difficult to modify the distribution of cards enough to achieve a noticeable increase in the rake without having the change be detectable through analysis of hand histories. They know that a lot of people are suspicious of this and are looking very closely at millions of hand histories.

3) The potential loss of business, lawsuits, etc. as a result of this would make it a very -EV action on their part.

That being said, individuals within the organization might be inclined to "supplement their pay" as was seen in the Ultimate Bet scandal, but the site owners would have an even larger incentive to do everything they can to prevent this.

I suspect the biggest threat to honest players is probably collusion among friends playing at the same table while they text or talk on the phone. It's simple and difficult to detect as long as they don't get stupid about it, but I would think that the site probably flags players who spend too high a percentage of their time playing on the same table.

Heres the thing. If the poker sites have any kind of tracking software themselves, they know who is winning money that doesnt deposit. Theyll also know who is playing and never cashes out (me again), theyll know who can build, then donk it away (yup me again).
There are obvious benefits here,



Yeah This is what I was sorta trying to say that I keep thinking to. Just can't stright out say how they will benefit or not from doing this.

It seems like they would benefit doing this in the long run . Kinda like a business owner see's it as a eye sore , like 1 fly in the house , and party poker said lets just take care of this eye sore/1 fly in the house .

I don't know

Anyother good thoughts by the cardchat family out thier ?

ozexorcist bazerk bigjokerbb , Are you their ? Hope to hear from you two on what you thought about that article of the action taken by party poker .. Well you 2 have a great day.

~Tony

x2486, since you took the time to dissect my mail, I felt I at least owe you a reply.

No? why do you say this? You misunderstand. Anyway, Im hardly going all spastic "poker is rigged!" just explaining my feelings when certain events take place. I hope poker isnt rigged, I trust it isnt, but i wouldnt bet my life on it.

As for computer programming, anything is possible, including a program that would allow a special person to see anothers hole cards, know what I mean?. Again, Im not saying I beleive pokerstars for example is rigged, just describing how it might seem, when it is in the interests of a site to do somethng dodgy to make more money.

Based on my experience, I do actually beleive that there are more rivered Flush,staight, fullhouse etc on the ipoker network, than Stars of FT. That is based upon my personal experience and whatever you may have to say about that, you cannot change my personal experience.

All over the world in every business, people do dodgy things in order to make a little more money, and hide these things.

It is probaly the fact that I am acutely aware of how far behind I might have been to win the hand that would sway my 1% at the back there, like I already stated, 1% at the back. Im not screaming Rigged! Rigged! Rigged!

Now then, ive got a little hand history which I thought id post, simply for you, to show you how I may be excused from making the comments I posted. Obviously its just coincidence, the odds are that it will happen to somebody, every now and then, even it will happen for you, just not often. It just happened to happen to me, in my last tournament, and I thought you of all people might like to see it. Now, Im in the position that I have $50 free, but I dont actually get it until I earn 100 points. If I dont earn 100 points the bankroll is taken away. So far Ive earnt a fair few bucks for the site, without yet getting anywhere near the points i need.

So the most paranoid of people could read into this. Not me though, the 1% has disappeared for now........

So much for all the boring stuff, please dont point by point assassinate this post, just pray the pokergods come to your aid like they did in this $11 stt with 7 players still in the tourney when you are reduced to 15 chips from a starting stack of 2000.

#Game No : 9666125038
***** Hand History for Game 9666125038 *****
NL Texas Hold'em $11 USD Buy-in Trny: 54890906 Level: 5 Blinds(200/400) - Saturday, September 25, 21:24:50 NZDT 2010
Table Speed #1330096 (Real Money)
Seat 7 is the button
Total number of players : 7/10
Seat 8: Keeny_Rodger ( 3,000 )
Seat 4: Koschi77 ( 1,755 )
Seat 9: Pattingaaa ( 4,180 )
Seat 7: Pokergott124 ( 1,000 )
Seat 5: X_ben ( 7,970 )
Seat 1: HERO ( 15 )
Seat 6: pokejog ( 2,080 )
Trny: 54890906 Level: 5
Blinds(200/400)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to HERO [ 4d 9s ]
HERO is all-In [15]
Koschi77 folds
X_ben raises [1,200]
pokejog folds
Pokergott124 folds
Keeny_Rodger folds
Pattingaaa folds
** Dealing Flop ** [ 6d, Ks, 3s ]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 4s ]
** Dealing River ** [ 9h ]
X_ben shows [ 8s, 8d ]a pair of Eights.
HERO shows [ 4d, 9s ]two pairs, Nines and Fours.
X_ben wins 1,755 chips from the side pot 1 with a pair of Eights.
HERO wins 60 chips from the main pot with two pairs, Nines and Fours.
Game #9666125749 starts.
#Game No : 9666125749
***** Hand History for Game 9666125749 *****
NL Texas Hold'em $11 USD Buy-in Trny: 54890906 Level: 5 Blinds(200/400) - Saturday, September 25, 21:25:18 NZDT 2010
Table Speed #1330096 (Real Money)
Seat 8 is the button
Total number of players : 7/10
Seat 8: Keeny_Rodger ( 2,800 )
Seat 4: Koschi77 ( 1,755 )
Seat 9: Pattingaaa ( 3,780 )
Seat 7: Pokergott124 ( 1,000 )
Seat 5: X_ben ( 8,525 )
Seat 1: HERO ( 60 )
Seat 6: pokejog ( 2,080 )
Trny: 54890906 Level: 5
Blinds(200/400)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to HERO [ Kh 3d ]
Koschi77 folds
Pokergott124 folds
pokejog folds
X_ben folds
Keeny_Rodger raises [800]
Pattingaaa folds
** Dealing Flop ** [ 5h, Jc, 3h ]
** Dealing Turn ** [ Kd ]
** Dealing River ** [ 9s ]
Keeny_Rodger shows [ Js, Qd ]a pair of Jacks.
HERO shows [ Kh, 3d ]two pairs, Kings and Threes.
Keeny_Rodger wins 880 chips from the side pot 1 with a pair of Jacks.
HERO wins 180 chips from the main pot with two pairs, Kings and Threes.
Game #9666126322 starts.
#Game No : 9666126322
***** Hand History for Game 9666126322 *****
NL Texas Hold'em $11 USD Buy-in Trny: 54890906 Level: 5 Blinds(200/400) - Saturday, September 25, 21:25:36 NZDT 2010
Table Speed #1330096 (Real Money)
Seat 9 is the button
Total number of players : 7/10
Seat 8: Keeny_Rodger ( 2,880 )
Seat 4: Koschi77 ( 1,755 )
Seat 9: Pattingaaa ( 3,580 )
Seat 7: Pokergott124 ( 1,000 )
Seat 5: X_ben ( 8,525 )
Seat 1: HERO ( 180 )
Seat 6: pokejog ( 2,080 )
Trny: 54890906 Level: 5
Blinds(200/400)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to HERO [ 7h 5s ]
X_ben calls [400]
pokejog folds
Pokergott124 folds
Keeny_Rodger folds
Pattingaaa folds
Koschi77 checks
** Dealing Flop ** [ Qd, Kd, 8c ]
Koschi77 checks
X_ben bets [400]
Koschi77 folds
** Dealing Turn ** [ 4c ]
** Dealing River ** [ 6d ]
X_ben shows [ 9c, Ac ]high card Ace.
HERO shows [ 7h, 5s ]a straight, Four to Eight.
X_ben wins 840 chips from the side pot 1 with high card, Ace.
HERO wins 540 chips from the main pot with a straight, Four to Eight.
Game #9666127243 starts.
#Game No : 9666127243
***** Hand History for Game 9666127243 *****
NL Texas Hold'em $11 USD Buy-in Trny: 54890906 Level: 6 Blinds(300/600) - Saturday, September 25, 21:26:10 NZDT 2010
Table Speed #1330096 (Real Money)
Seat 1 is the button
Total number of players : 7/10
Seat 8: Keeny_Rodger ( 2,880 )
Seat 4: Koschi77 ( 1,355 )
Seat 9: Pattingaaa ( 3,580 )
Seat 7: Pokergott124 ( 1,000 )
Seat 5: X_ben ( 8,565 )
Seat 1: HERO ( 540 )
Seat 6: pokejog ( 2,080 )
Trny: 54890906 Level: 6
Blinds(300/600)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to HERO [ 6h Js ]
HERO: o yay]
pokejog folds
Pokergott124 folds
Keeny_Rodger raises [1,800]
Pattingaaa folds
HERO folds
Koschi77 folds
X_ben folds
Keeny_Rodger does not show cards.
Keeny_Rodger wins 2,700 chips
Game #9666127834 starts.
#Game No : 9666127834
***** Hand History for Game 9666127834 *****
NL Texas Hold'em $11 USD Buy-in Trny: 54890906 Level: 6 Blinds(300/600) - Saturday, September 25, 21:26:30 NZDT 2010
Table Speed #1330096 (Real Money)
Seat 4 is the button
Total number of players : 7/10
Seat 8: Keeny_Rodger ( 3,780 )
Seat 4: Koschi77 ( 1,055 )
Seat 9: Pattingaaa ( 3,580 )
Seat 7: Pokergott124 ( 1,000 )
Seat 5: X_ben ( 7,965 )
Seat 1: HERO ( 540 )
Seat 6: pokejog ( 2,080 )
Trny: 54890906 Level: 6
Blinds(300/600)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to HERO [ 8c Ts ]
Pokergott124 is all-In [1,000]
Keeny_Rodger folds
Pattingaaa folds
HERO folds
Koschi77 folds
X_ben folds
pokejog folds
Pokergott124 does not show cards.
Pokergott124 wins 1,900 chips
Game #9666128260 starts.
#Game No : 9666128260
***** Hand History for Game 9666128260 *****
NL Texas Hold'em $11 USD Buy-in Trny: 54890906 Level: 6 Blinds(300/600) - Saturday, September 25, 21:26:45 NZDT 2010
Table Speed #1330096 (Real Money)
Seat 5 is the button
Total number of players : 7/10
Seat 8: Keeny_Rodger ( 3,780 )
Seat 4: Koschi77 ( 1,055 )
Seat 9: Pattingaaa ( 3,580 )
Seat 7: Pokergott124 ( 1,900 )
Seat 5: X_ben ( 7,665 )
Seat 1: HERO ( 540 )
Seat 6: pokejog ( 1,480 )
Trny: 54890906 Level: 6
Blinds(300/600)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to HERO [ Ts 9d ]
Keeny_Rodger folds
Pattingaaa folds
HERO folds
Koschi77 folds
X_ben folds
pokejog is all-In [1,180]
Pokergott124 folds
pokejog does not show cards.
pokejog wins 2,080 chips
Game #9666128841 starts.
#Game No : 9666128841
***** Hand History for Game 9666128841 *****
NL Texas Hold'em $11 USD Buy-in Trny: 54890906 Level: 6 Blinds(300/600) - Saturday, September 25, 21:27:07 NZDT 2010
Table Speed #1330096 (Real Money)
Seat 6 is the button
Total number of players : 7/10
Seat 8: Keeny_Rodger ( 3,780 )
Seat 4: Koschi77 ( 1,055 )
Seat 9: Pattingaaa ( 3,580 )
Seat 7: Pokergott124 ( 1,300 )
Seat 5: X_ben ( 7,665 )
Seat 1: HERO ( 540 )
Seat 6: pokejog ( 2,080 )
Trny: 54890906 Level: 6
Blinds(300/600)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to HERO [ Kc Js ]
Pattingaaa folds
HERO is all-In [540]
Koschi77 folds
X_ben folds
pokejog is all-In [2,080]
Pokergott124 folds
Keeny_Rodger folds
** Dealing Flop ** [ 7d, 4h, Td ]
** Dealing Turn ** [ Qd ]
** Dealing River ** [ 9s ]
HERO shows [ Kc, Js ]a straight, Nine to King.
pokejog shows [ 3h, Ah ]high card Ace.
pokejog wins 1,600 chips from the side pot 1 with high card, Ace.
HERO wins 1,920 chips from the main pot with a straight, Nine to King.
Game #9666129742 starts.
#Game No : 9666129742
***** Hand History for Game 9666129742 *****
NL Texas Hold'em $11 USD Buy-in Trny: 54890906 Level: 6 Blinds(300/600) - Saturday, September 25, 21:27:38 NZDT 2010
Table Speed #1330096 (Real Money)
Seat 7 is the button
Total number of players : 7/10
Seat 8: Keeny_Rodger ( 3,180 )
Seat 4: Koschi77 ( 1,055 )
Seat 9: Pattingaaa ( 3,580 )
Seat 7: Pokergott124 ( 1,000 )
Seat 5: X_ben ( 7,665 )
Seat 1: HERO ( 1,920 )
Seat 6: pokejog ( 1,600 )
Trny: 54890906 Level: 6
Blinds(300/600)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to HERO [ 7d 3s ]
HERO: fkn a
Pokergott124: lucker!
HERO: 15-1920
HERO folds
Koschi77 folds
X_ben folds
pokejog folds
Pokergott124 is all-In [1,000]
Keeny_Rodger is all-In [2,880]
Pattingaaa calls [2,580]
** Dealing Flop ** [ Kh, 6c, 3d ]
** Dealing Turn ** [ Ks ]
** Dealing River ** [ 5d ]
Keeny_Rodger shows [ 3c, 3h ]a full house, Threes full of Kings.
Pattingaaa shows [ Ah, Qs ]a pair of Kings.
Pokergott124 shows [ 9d, Tc ]a pair of Kings.
Keeny_Rodger wins 4,360 chips from the side pot 1 with a full house, Threes full of Kings.
Keeny_Rodger wins 3,000 chips from the main pot with a full house, Threes full of Kings.
Pokergott124 finished in 7 place.
Game #9666130806 starts.
#Game No : 9666130806
***** Hand History for Game 9666130806 *****
NL Texas Hold'em $11 USD Buy-in Trny: 54890906 Level: 6 Blinds(300/600) - Saturday, September 25, 21:28:15 NZDT 2010
Table Speed #1330096 (Real Money)
Seat 8 is the button
Total number of players : 6/10
Seat 8: Keeny_Rodger ( 7,360 )
Seat 4: Koschi77 ( 1,055 )
Seat 9: Pattingaaa ( 400 )
Seat 5: X_ben ( 7,665 )
Seat 1: HERO ( 1,920 )
Seat 6: pokejog ( 1,600 )
Trny: 54890906 Level: 6
Blinds(300/600)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to HERO [ 6d Qh ]
Koschi77 folds
X_ben folds
pokejog folds
Keeny_Rodger folds
HERO: i was unlucky to lose my all in in the first place, the poker gods are shining
Pattingaaa is all-In [100]
** Dealing Flop ** [ 6h, 3c, Kc ]
** Dealing Turn ** [ Ks ]
** Dealing River ** [ 3h ]
Pattingaaa shows [ Js, 4h ]two pairs, Kings and Threes.
HERO shows [ 6d, Qh ]two pairs, Kings and Sixes.
HERO wins 200 chips from the side pot 1 with two pairs, Kings and Sixes.
HERO wins 800 chips from the main pot with two pairs, Kings and Sixes.
Pattingaaa finished in 6 place.
Game #9666131329 starts.
#Game No : 9666131329
***** Hand History for Game 9666131329 *****
NL Texas Hold'em $11 USD Buy-in Trny: 54890906 Level: 6 Blinds(300/600) - Saturday, September 25, 21:28:35 NZDT 2010
Table Speed #1330096 (Real Money)
Seat 8 is the button
Total number of players : 5/10
Seat 8: Keeny_Rodger ( 7,360 )
Seat 4: Koschi77 ( 1,055 )
Seat 5: X_ben ( 7,665 )
Seat 1: HERO ( 2,320 )
Seat 6: pokejog ( 1,600 )
Trny: 54890906 Level: 6
Blinds(300/600)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to HERO [ 8c Kd ]
HERO: o yay
X_ben raises [1,200]
pokejog folds
Keeny_Rodger folds
HERO: i could bea u with atc
Your time bank will be activated in 6 secs. If you do not want it to be used, please act now.
HERO folds
Koschi77 is all-In [455]
** Dealing Flop ** [ 9h, Js, 2d ]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 6d ]
** Dealing River ** [ 3s ]
X_ben shows [ Kc, Qc ]high card King.
Koschi77 shows [ 6c, 2h ]two pairs, Sixes and Twos.
X_ben wins 145 chips from the side pot 1 with high card, King.
Koschi77 wins 2,410 chips from the main pot with two pairs, Sixes and Twos.
Game #9666132364 starts.
#Game No : 9666132364
***** Hand History for Game 9666132364 *****
NL Texas Hold'em $11 USD Buy-in Trny: 54890906 Level: 6 Blinds(300/600) - Saturday, September 25, 21:29:12 NZDT 2010
Table Speed #1330096 (Real Money)
Seat 1 is the button
Total number of players : 5/10
Seat 8: Keeny_Rodger ( 7,360 )
Seat 4: Koschi77 ( 2,410 )
Seat 5: X_ben ( 6,610 )
Seat 1: HERO ( 2,020 )
Seat 6: pokejog ( 1,600 )
Trny: 54890906 Level: 6
Blinds(300/600)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to HERO [ Td Ad ]
X_ben: fish
X_ben: incredible
pokejog is all-In [1,600]
Keeny_Rodger is all-In [7,360]
Chat has been disabled till the end of this hand as one or more players have gone All-in. Chat will be enabled as soon as this hand ends.
HERO folds
Koschi77 folds
X_ben folds
** Dealing Flop ** [ 8h, Jh, 4s ]
** Dealing Turn ** [ Ts ]
** Dealing River ** [ Qs ]
pokejog shows [ 8c, 8s ]three of a kind, Eights.
Keeny_Rodger shows [ Kc, As ]a straight, Ten to Ace.
Keeny_Rodger wins 5,760 chips from the side pot 1 with a straight, Ten to Ace.
Keeny_Rodger wins 4,100 chips from the main pot with a straight, Ten to Ace.
pokejog finished in 5 place.
Game #9666133263 starts.
#Game No : 9666133263
***** Hand History for Game 9666133263 *****
NL Texas Hold'em $11 USD Buy-in Trny: 54890906 Level: 6 Blinds(300/600) - Saturday, September 25, 21:29:44 NZDT 2010
Table Speed #1330096 (Real Money)
Seat 4 is the button
Total number of players : 4/10
Seat 8: Keeny_Rodger ( 9,860 )
Seat 4: Koschi77 ( 2,110 )
Seat 5: X_ben ( 6,010 )
Seat 1: HERO ( 2,020 )
Trny: 54890906 Level: 6
Blinds(300/600)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to HERO [ 5h Jh ]
X_ben: fish N A Z I
HERO: ben u dik
Koschi77: i have to call donk
HERO folds
Koschi77 folds
X_ben: S S
X_ben folds
Keeny_Rodger does not show cards.
Keeny_Rodger wins 900 chips
Game #9666133805 starts.
#Game No : 9666133805
***** Hand History for Game 9666133805 *****
NL Texas Hold'em $11 USD Buy-in Trny: 54890906 Level: 6 Blinds(300/600) - Saturday, September 25, 21:30:01 NZDT 2010
Table Speed #1330096 (Real Money)
Seat 5 is the button
Total number of players : 4/10
Seat 8: Keeny_Rodger ( 10,160 )
Seat 4: Koschi77 ( 2,110 )
Seat 5: X_ben ( 5,710 )
Seat 1: HERO ( 2,020 )
Trny: 54890906 Level: 6
Blinds(300/600)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to HERO [ 3c 9c ]
Koschi77 is all-In [2,110]
X_ben folds
Keeny_Rodger folds
HERO folds
Koschi77 does not show cards.
Koschi77 wins 3,010 chips
Game #9666134391 starts.
#Game No : 9666134391
***** Hand History for Game 9666134391 *****
NL Texas Hold'em $11 USD Buy-in Trny: 54890906 Level: 6 Blinds(300/600) - Saturday, September 25, 21:30:22 NZDT 2010
Table Speed #1330096 (Real Money)
Seat 8 is the button
Total number of players : 4/10
Seat 8: Keeny_Rodger ( 9,860 )
Seat 4: Koschi77 ( 3,010 )
Seat 5: X_ben ( 5,710 )
Seat 1: HERO ( 1,420 )
Trny: 54890906 Level: 6
Blinds(300/600)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to HERO [ Ac Tc ]
X_ben folds
Keeny_Rodger raises [1,800]
HERO is all-In [1,120]
Koschi77 folds
** Dealing Flop ** [ As, 5h, Kc ]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 6c ]
** Dealing River ** [ Qd ]
Keeny_Rodger shows [ 8h, Kd ]a pair of Kings.
HERO shows [ Ac, Tc ]a pair of Aces.
Keeny_Rodger wins 380 chips from the side pot 1 with a pair of Kings.
HERO wins 3,440 chips from the main pot with a pair of Aces.
Game #9666134996 starts.
#Game No : 9666134996
***** Hand History for Game 9666134996 *****
NL Texas Hold'em $11 USD Buy-in Trny: 54890906 Level: 6 Blinds(300/600) - Saturday, September 25, 21:30:44 NZDT 2010
Table Speed #1330096 (Real Money)
Seat 1 is the button
Total number of players : 4/10
Seat 8: Keeny_Rodger ( 8,440 )
Seat 4: Koschi77 ( 2,410 )
Seat 5: X_ben ( 5,710 )
Seat 1: HERO ( 3,440 )
Trny: 54890906 Level: 6
Blinds(300/600)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to HERO [ 5c Kd ]
Keeny_Rodger folds
HERO folds
Koschi77 is all-In [2,110]
X_ben calls [1,810]
** Dealing Flop ** [ As, 8s, 2h ]
** Dealing Turn ** [ Qd ]
** Dealing River ** [ 5d ]
Koschi77 shows [ 9h, Ks ]high card Ace.
X_ben shows [ Ad, Kc ]a pair of Aces.
X_ben wins 4,820 chips from the main pot with a pair of Aces.
Koschi77 finished in 4 place.
Game #9666135785 starts.
#Game No : 9666135785
***** Hand History for Game 9666135785 *****
NL Texas Hold'em $11 USD Buy-in Trny:54890906 Level:7 Blinds-Antes(400/800 -25) - Saturday, September 25, 21:31:12 NZDT 2010
Table Speed #1330096 (Real Money)
Seat 1 is the button
Total number of players : 3/10
Seat 8: Keeny_Rodger ( 8,440 )
Seat 5: X_ben ( 8,120 )
Seat 1: HERO ( 3,440 )
Trny:54890906 Level:7
Blinds-Antes(400/800 -25)
HERO posts ante [25]
X_ben posts ante [25]
Keeny_Rodger posts ante [25]
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to HERO [ 9s 6c ]
HERO: thx ben
X_ben: bye fish
X_ben:
Your time bank will be activated in 6 secs. If you do not want it to be used, please act now.
HERO folds
X_ben folds
Keeny_Rodger does not show cards.
Keeny_Rodger wins 1,275 chips
Game #9666136210 starts.
#Game No : 9666136210
***** Hand History for Game 9666136210 *****
NL Texas Hold'em $11 USD Buy-in Trny:54890906 Level:7 Blinds-Antes(400/800 -25) - Saturday, September 25, 21:31:27 NZDT 2010
Table Speed #1330096 (Real Money)
Seat 5 is the button
Total number of players : 3/10
Seat 8: Keeny_Rodger ( 8,890 )
Seat 5: X_ben ( 7,695 )
Seat 1: HERO ( 3,415 )
Trny:54890906 Level:7
Blinds-Antes(400/800 -25)
HERO posts ante [25]
X_ben posts ante [25]
Keeny_Rodger posts ante [25]
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to HERO [ Ah 3s ]
X_ben is all-In [7,670]
Keeny_Rodger folds
HERO folds
X_ben shows [ Ks, Kh ]a pair of Kings.
X_ben wins 8,945 chips from the main pot with a pair of Kings.
Game #9666136703 starts.
#Game No : 9666136703
***** Hand History for Game 9666136703 *****
NL Texas Hold'em $11 USD Buy-in Trny:54890906 Level:7 Blinds-Antes(400/800 -25) - Saturday, September 25, 21:31:45 NZDT 2010
Table Speed #1330096 (Real Money)
Seat 8 is the button
Total number of players : 3/10
Seat 8: Keeny_Rodger ( 8,465 )
Seat 5: X_ben ( 8,945 )
Seat 1: HERO ( 2,590 )
Trny:54890906 Level:7
Blinds-Antes(400/800 -25)
HERO posts ante [25]
X_ben posts ante [25]
Keeny_Rodger posts ante [25]
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to HERO [ Qs 5d ]
Keeny_Rodger folds
HERO is all-In [2,165]
X_ben calls [1,765]
** Dealing Flop ** [ 6s, Ks, 8s ]
** Dealing Turn ** [ Qh ]
** Dealing River ** [ 8d ]
HERO shows [ Qs, 5d ]two pairs, Queens and Eights.
X_ben shows [ 9c, 8h ]three of a kind, Eights.
X_ben wins 5,205 chips from the main pot with three of a kind, Eights.
HERO finished in 3 place and won $20 USD.

Ps i was 55% preflop~!

Sorry twoturntablez, I wasn't meaning to dissect your post like that, but it's easy to forget how it will look to the original poster when you're in the middle of an edit. Also, I guess I didn't really notice or think about your 1% comment at the end, and perhaps I misunderstood you intention regarding the full house example. I wasn't trying to offend.

Yes, I agree that greed can motivate people to cheat even if it's not in their best interest in the long run. I have read about the Ultimate Bet scandal, and another case where there was a problem with the shuffling algorithm that made the cards predictable, but I don't think I've ever heard a credible accusation of cheating in the form of the web site stacking the deck to favor a particular player. I think I read a while back that the server software for online casinos usually undergoes independent reviews for security and fairness.
Regarding your hand history, that was a nice comeback, congrats! I had one a long time ago where I came back from $5 to win a tournament. Unfortunately, I think that was back when I was doing play money. And of course, this does happen in live play, too. (Look up Jack Straus if you're not familiar with him) I recently posted a brag about a maniac who had an incredible run of suckouts, so I understand that these things seem like too big a coincidence to occur naturally, but as they say, that's poker. I just think that there is probably more to fear from cheating players than from within the organization. I see that pokerbots are getting better - that may be a real concern in the future if it's not already.

You must of been a hard core rapper in your previous life x2486 , cause you broke it down my brotha lol... hahaha



[quote=twoturntablez;1572331]x2486, since you took the time to dissect my mail, I felt I at least owe you a reply.



No? why do you say this? You misunderstand. Anyway, Im hardly going all spastic "poker is rigged!" just explaining my feelings when certain events take place. I hope poker isnt rigged, I trust it isnt, but i wouldnt bet my life on it.

As for computer programming, anything is possible, including a program that would allow a special person to see anothers hole cards, know what I mean?. Again, Im not saying I beleive pokerstars for example is rigged, just describing how it might seem, when it is in the interests of a site to do somethng dodgy to make more money.

Based on my experience, I do actually beleive that there are more rivered Flush,staight, fullhouse etc on the ipoker network, than Stars of FT. That is based upon my personal experience and whatever you may have to say about that, you cannot change my personal experience.

All over the world in every business, people do dodgy things in order to make a little more money, and hide these things.

It is probaly the fact that I am acutely aware of how far behind I might have been to win the hand that would sway my 1% at the back there, like I already stated, 1% at the back. Im not screaming Rigged! Rigged! Rigged!

Now then, ive got a little hand history which I thought id post, simply for you, to show you how I may be excused from making the comments I posted. Obviously its just coincidence, the odds are that it will happen to somebody, every now and then, even it will happen for you, just not often. It just happened to happen to me, in my last tournament, and I thought you of all people might like to see it. Now, Im in the position that I have $50 free, but I dont actually get it until I earn 100 points. If I dont earn 100 points the bankroll is taken away. So far Ive earnt a fair few bucks for the site, without yet getting anywhere near the points i need.

So the most paranoid of people could read into this. Not me though, the 1% has disappeared for now........

So much for all the boring stuff, please dont point by point assassinate this post, just pray the pokergods come to your aid like they did in this $11 stt with 7 players still in the tourney when you are reduced to 15 chips from a starting stack of 2000.

Too old to have been a rapper in a previous life, so I had to look it up...

From the rap dictionary:
verb

break it down

1. To dance; "Won't ya, uh, break it down, break it down fo me," -- Nelly (Errtime)
2. To analyze a concept into simpler, easier to understand terms.
3. To have sexual intercourse.

I hope you meant #2.

I agree, poker not rigged. Now down to business of increasing the bankroll.

LOL , More simply put ,, Spitting Ebonics to beats

Hey I heard you guys had a earthquake over their ?? Wow and wierd weather to .. Whats going on these days ???