minimum monthly earnings for a pro

How much money do you guys think you should consistantly be able to make before you could consider becoming a pro?
Do you think becoming a pro takes all the fun out of playing poker?
My own answer would be that I dont know, but what do you guys think? Does anyone have any own experience?

How much money depends on how much you need to sustain your lifestyle. You need to be able to make a consistent profit of your living expenses plus about 1/3 of that profit for taxes. If, as a pro, you can write some things off of taxes legitimately, you probably don't want to factor that in until those expenses are plainly legitimate and substantial.
So, first, you need a bankroll that will easily let you play at the necessary levels. A live bankroll might be different than the needed online bankroll, as, online, you can multitable. Online, also, you can adjust the hours played as necessary without factoring in drive time, gas, etc. So, if you need to make $1k (+350 for taxes) a week, if you played 40 hours a week, you'd need to make about $34/hr, so you'd have to play at whetever level you'd need to make that. Maybe you'd need $50k to start as a live pro but only $20K for online, as you could multi table for longer at lower levels with similar possible results. You might also be better able to win at the lower levels, and better able to psychologically withstand beats.

Then, of course, you need to factor in variance. Those days, weeks, months where you are not making a profit, and eating into your bankroll. You'd need a plan of action -- grind out more hours, perhaps, at lower (beatable) levels. Or put a hefty slush fund aside to help you ride out those periods.

Personally, I would think that making poker my primary source of income, my business, would drive out a lot of the fun of playing. Knowing that I absolutely have to make $XXXX a month or my bills wouldn't get paid... yikes. I doubt I would like the pressure, and suspect it would make me tiltier. I suspect that's why so many pros welcome affiliations, sponsor deals, book deals, TV, other ways to bring in income without having it all ride on the turn of the cards.

Obviously, I've thought about it. It's a no for me. Beside, I don't have the bankroll... LOL

Thx for the nice answer. I dont have a big bankroll, and I dont make 1350$ a week, but I hate my so called, minimum wage 'job' so much.
Im thinking that I at least make more money on poker than on my current job, but I guess becoming a pro would eventually drive me mad (and broke).

So make extra money with your poker, playing like it's a part-time job. At least, see if you can make a hundred or a couple hundred in profit every week. If you can, make monthly withdrawals OR move up in levels and see if you can then sustain, say, $300/wk profit playing part time. Keep moving up, see if you can make it work. See how you do and how you feel, playing 20 hours a week, at set times like a job.

That would be my plan, if I could only break out of breaking even in the long-run. One week, I'm up a hundred, the next, I'm down 50, then another down....then up again. If you can go up consistently, you might find it all more possible than I can. Perhaps part-timing it will help-- and the extra money, if you withdraw your profits periodically, may make your stable paycheck job more bearable.

But don't forget to keep good records, and save about half for taxes.

Personally, I wouldn't consider going pro unless I could make $10,000 a month or more. Until I can get to that point, it is not worth the stress.

How much do you need to survive? That is how much it costs to go pro.

You make more on poker consistently? You gotta allow for ups and downs and long long dry spells. Don't quit your job yet.

I strongly advise against making it your full time job unless you have made a large consistent profit. (A large consistent profit in my opinion would be $8,000 per month for a year.)

I guess than when you can cover all your monthly expenses, including taxes, then you earn enough to make poker your job.

But I think you must try to earn a lot more, because when poker will be your job, you'll probably have less fun playing, and also there's a lot of variance in poker.
So if you hardly cover your expenses, you may be exposed to a row of bad beats that could hurt you.

The word pro is short for professional.

A professional is defined as someone who makes his living through an activity and subsequent definitions of living ect mean that to be a pro then the activity has to make the majority of your income and take the majority of your time.

In short if you are a pro, then the activity is what you do.

So, how much money do you want to earn?

If $5 a hour is OK then dedicate the majority of your time to poker, and if that constitutes the majority of your earnings then $5 an hour makes you a pro.

An economist would look at the next highest paid activity you are capabe of doing and if that yeilds higher expected earnings than poker then you should not become a poker pro.

Of course this dosen't take into account other factors such as your enjoyment of poker.

How much should you earn? its such a person specific question, start with how much do you NEED to earn and how much do you enjoy your PRESENT line of work?

Then work backwards from there.

Dang, I would sure love to make $8k in one month! LOL It's a good guideline, though -- would keep a lot of people from ever considering going pro. "Oh, no -- I cannot take that job since I cannot survive on less than $96,000 a year."

Any reason why you set it at that? You have a mortgage to pay? Do you assume that pretty much anyone can earn $100K at other jobs? Or is it that only someone who is smart enough to be able to make at least that much elsewhere could be a strong enough poker player to reasonably go pro? Hmmmm.... might be right...

That statements a load of crap.
What about all the people with degrees who can't even get jobs or just do jobs like working in Supermarkets or Barwork, some of whom are probably very capable of becoming very strong poker players.

Funny, I always thought that you should chose a job that you love. This discussion has gotten me to think that you should chose a job that you can stand, and an interest that you love. Cause choosing something that you love as your occupation seems to take away a lot of that love.

That depends on what it is you love about something that might (or might not) earn you a good living. Many occupations can provide quite a lot of job satisfaction -- it is at least 80% in your own mindset whether you can find some part of the job that is interesting and energizes you in some way. Some people can handle any job that has hours and benefits to their liking. Jobs one loves much of the time, and jobs that make good money are not always the same.

Few dream occupations, those that you imagine you might love, that you have trained for and have become skilled at, truly measure up to the dreams. There are, in my experience, problems involved that you did not anticipate. Or you did not anticipate that you wouldn't like certain aspects. For instance, a job that involves a lot of travel might sound great, but then you might find that you hate being away from home -- or not having a home-- so much of the time. Family and friends may be more important to you than you thought and time with them is more important than more money. Life is about learning stuff about your own self and organizing your life so that your life fits who you are.

Yeah, it is all about personal circumstance i think, some people may have a job they hate and would quite happily quit to earn 4 or 5k a month playing poker, then there's the lucky ones like yourself who have a job they enjoy that lets them carry on enjoying their hobby, just for a nice side income.

Me personally, if i was ever making 6-8k playing poker i'd have to seriously consider doing it for a living, no matter how stressful or boring it may become, b/c grinding a regular job for 2k per month would just seem pointless if i was making 4x that with my hobby.

The crucial factor for me in the future i think will be rakeback, if i'm ever making even close to my full time wage from rb alone then i'll start to think about it, this is may be a while into the future for me but it is definetly something that i like to think about and imagine myself doing.

But then again, if you gave me the choice between living in canada and being a snowboard instructor or playing poker full time for more money then boarding would win hands down! So i can see your point on not wanting to leave your job.

I believe the big reason for younger players making it big is because when they are living at home, they need a lot less money to make it work. I have a wife and 3 kids, I have way too much to lose to be able to play pro right now. I do however like the extra money I make to have ends meet easier.

I definitely don't make enough at poker myself right now. Hopefully I can keep moving up in buy ins.

That is a really good point about rakeback. That would be pretty sick if you were working 30-40 hrs/wk making $2-3K/month, and also making $2-3k/month just from rakeback.

So.. work less & play more - switch to working part-time hours and then put some more time in on the tables to see how it goes for you.
Personally I think the strain of knowing one needs to play in order to sustain a living would suck. ie. you get the flu, you just don't feel like playing, etc. etc.,.. I'm imagining that there'd be times you'd be feeling obligated to play even while not really wanting to & then would obviously not be playing your A-game then anyways.
I think that many players are enthralled with the the thought of 'living like the pros' they see on tv. My guess is that the journey getting there isn't so glamorour and these days it's probably a much more difficult road to travel than it used to be back in early 90's.

This is practically the definition of playing with scared money.

I'm a pro, and I'll tell you that you're asking the wrong question. If you are good enough to go pro, you'll already have enough money. The general consensus is that you need 6 months of expenses in the bank plus your bankroll.

Doops made some great posts as well.

If you are a winning player and hate your job, why don't you use your poker earnings to get job re-training or go back to school or something like that? that way you can get a job you do like. Poker will always be there and this could be a great second income for you.

Online poker may not always be there.

It looks like a glamorous lifestyle but it is A LOT of stress. Ive never been a poker pro, but wallstreet is similar. If you can't make a lot of money, its not worth the stress making $30K a year. Just use it to have fun and make extra cash!

I think you have to really just be dedicated to poker, a lot of the pros took this dedication.. risking everything, being so broke at points that they had no place to go. (ivey, doyle, ect.) -- If you aren't dedicated enough to risk that then you probably won't ever be a pro in my opinion.

I'm 19 and don't have much to even lose at this point.. but I guess if your 28+ you have a lot more to lose..

Yep thats the logic of a 19-year-old.
I guess you get a little perspective in life when you grow a little older.

Apparently my post went over your head.

I shouldnt play the age card, but the fact is when you are 19 you dont really have that much life experience.
Nothing wrong with that.

You didn't get what I was saying, I was repeating things that older people tell me..

They always say life is easier for me sense I'm young and don't have much to lose, so thats the same way with poker, younger people can easily be more dedicated than the older people sense a lot have houses, kids, morgages, shit like that.

All I was trying to say.

$30K a year kills a minimum wage job--I do worse and if I could make that much I'd be thrilled because that's plenty for a modest lifestyle. I worked night shift for like $7 an hour during the holidays as my last "real" job--numbingly boring, repetitive work--and I found it to be soul-crushing. And it was no less stressful than relying on poker for income, I think.

Make sure you love love love poker if you turn "pro." When you're counting on it for money, it takes the fun away, imo.

Remember that even the pros have their own "bad periods" the book says that in these times you should just rest on your playing and start again when you feel you are ready...but really it would be hard to say in average, and it really depends on the type of pro that you are talking about...and what they are a pro at...Pros that play mostly limit games like horse and such probably don't make as much as a good pro in NL just because the it goes by faster, but it really depends on the pros lifestyle