Microlimit Sessions-profits

When you are playing micro limit(doesn't really matter what game) what is a good percentage of profit?

I guess what I am saying is........IE: You're at a .02/.04 limit holdem game and take $2.00 to the table with you. You play at this table for an hour or more and you go through the basic swings of the game. Is any profit good or is there a certain percentage that is better to leave the table with? 10% 20%?

I am not necessarily thinking along the results line but, if you come out ahead even just a small % does this mean you are playing well?

Again I don't have pokertracker or any thing like that, my current system won't handle it.

Percentages aren't a good way to measure success at rings. Winrate (usually BB/100 hands or $/hr) is generally what people use. You could have made %500 profit, but it took you a full day to do so, which would be terrible. Or you could have %20 profit that only took 1 hand to do so, which of course would be excellent. These measurements mean nothing, and you need something (like BB/100 hands) that involves an amount won per number of hands, or time to give yourself an accurate winrate.

If you want to measure it yourself, just note how many hands you've completed at the end of a session, and how many Big Blinds you've won. Then over a long period of time (many sessions), you can take a look at BB/100 hands and see how well you did. If I recall I think that anything over 0BB/100 is good; at the micros you might reach a much higher number though.

Chuck's is right about BB/100 hands, but one other alternative for you is to go with the $/hr (hourly rate) that Chuck mentioned. Mainly depends on how you like to see numbers and how you interpret them. I know some people that would look at 15BB/100 and just stare at you, but use the same stats available to tell them they are making $30/hour and they will be happy and smiling (because that means something to them). Both are useful methods and pretty easy to calculate without PT, so just pick whichever suits you best and track to that. Of course, if you can, do both.

500% profit per day would do me fine, you must be a millionaire if you consider that a bad days profit chuck!

At micro levels I wouldn't expect to see any profit as the tables are too crazy. If I were you I'd concentrate on just having fun at those limits or investing in your bankroll and moving up to at least 0.25/0.50 with a minimum bankroll of $500 if you want to take this game seriously.

Also dont invest that much in a bankroll if you aren't very good.

I have to disagree with this as purely a blanket statement. The tables do tend to be looser and crazier in general, but a lot of it has to do with the site as well the player. In general, take a good Tight/Aggressive style and loosen it up about 10%. That seems to work well in my case. For example, I started playing at Tropical Poker fairly recently and, for giggles, decided not to deposit anything as I heard there was a lot of fish to be fried. I played four freerolls and cashed in three of them for about $3.50 total. I took those winnings and started playing their NL Holdem ring games at the 0.01/0.02, 0.02/0.04, and 0.05/0.10 levels as my bankroll built. My current bankroll on the site is approx $21.50. It would be closer to $28.00, but I recently played a few SNGs that I didn't cash in. In any case, I found the micro limits to be very profitable. A word of warning though, you can't just splash around uncontrolled. That will spell disaster and they won't be profitable.

Theres nothing wrong with the statement, I just dont consider $20-$30 a profit.

When people talk about profit and poker I instantly think of making a nice sum of money and growing it up through the levels. Even though thats exactly what your doing - your doing it the extreme way and ridiculously tight way!

First of all, what you said was this ^^^

Now I see the issue. Your definition of "profit" is flawed compared to the dictionary and the rest of the English speaking world.

From Websters Dictionary Online:
Profit
1 : a valuable return : GAIN
2 : the excess of returns over expenditure in a transaction or series of transactions; especially : the excess of the selling price of goods over their cost
3 : net income usually for a given period of time

That should solve your first problem.

What's interesting though, is how you contradict yourself in the next statement...
Guess what happens in the real world. You don't get to change the definition of words. A profit is a profit is a profit. The amounts are irrelevant. Your vague statement about "a nice sum of money" is useless as well. What you consider nice is considered peanuts to some. And to others it is consided huge, not just "nice". So like it or not, your blanket statement to DL earlier about micro limits not being profitable is simply misleading at best, but is more likely just plain wrong. And now you're trying to defend that statement because I noted an experiment I have in the works that directly contradicts it. I'm not saying that everyone has a winning session everytime, but we all know one session is too short sighted. Everything is over the long term, not one session or hand. Anyone that claims they win EVERY session is simply a liar.

Hmmm...Interesting statement here. You claim that micro limits won't be profitable. Now since I've shown a way that is in fact working and doing something you said not to expect, your claim is that it is my way is ridiculous and tight? Since my way currently = profit and your way is that there is no profit, then I guess the discussion of style favors mine. Which means...drumroll please...that this is just one of your silly ways of trying to hijack the thread and start your rant about how maniac poker is the only real way to make a profit. Well, don't bother. You've got a different thread that you've hijacked to share the insane belief of how odds and probability don't apply and how you can win if all you play is shitty cards.

So, in summary.
1. You don't know what "Profit" actually means. --> educated.
2. You claim someone that isn't making enough to suit you means they aren't profiting. LOL.
3. Try to hijack thread.-->Stopped. Attempt thwarted for now. But I'm sure that a retaliation is in the works.

Ok, so what your telling me is BB/100 means how many BB made per 100 hands played(seen)? So what is a good average to base this on? 5BB/100? 10BB/100. Whats good? What's bad? What's average?

It's been so long since Algebra and ratios I don't quite get it the first time around.

Thanks for explaining all this.

I didn't say you couldn't profit, I said I wouldn't expect to profit. This is simply because to make a profit you would have to be extremely controlled and for the sake of a few dollars I wouldn't see the point in doing it.

Your definition of a profit is nice and all but if a business man invests 100k in something he doesn't want to see a profit of 1k on his investment.

When I say I dont consider $20-$30 a profit, thats because at most levels that amount of money is won or lost every hand.

I dont see why your trying to disect my posts I just look for good poker discussion, only it seems this place is full of tight micro limit maniacs which makes for pretty boring discussion because everyones opinions on the game are the same!

How can you have a bankroll of less than $30 and pass comment on poker issues? Your not playing poker until you at least hit the 0.25/0.50 levels!

The play is no better at 25c/50c
I know I play there.

Getting very tired of these rants.

Will you stop if we just all admit that you're style is the best and none of us know anything. You know us guys that make lots of profit.

bookmark, like to see where this goes.....................

I think acceptable rates vary by the limit you are playing. At the micros where the blinds are so cheap people bet a lot more in relation to the blinds and therefore the pots are bigger (again in relation to the blinds).

I'd be looking for 20BB/100hands at this level.

And all I said was that this blanket statement is wrong. People do profit from them.

Exactly. You are completely missing the point. It has nothing to do with what you see the point in doing or how. The OP question was centered around her and where SHE is playing, not you.

Really? What would he like to see a loss? Last time I checked, real businessmen wanted to make a profit on their money. So, going back to your definition of a profit, earning 1K profit from a 100K investment isn't a profit because you don't think it is enough? That's outright stupid. Plain and simple. If you simply said that you don't think a 1K profit from a 100K investment was sufficient, I'd be inclined to agree with you. But to claim it isn't a profit is ridiculous.

Let's examine it for a moment. How would a business man in your world react to the following?
1) Handed initial investment of X.
2) Within two weeks time, NET profit is now just over 5X the initial investment he was handed.

My guess is that they would like the scenario. Well, this is exactly what I did at Tropical Poker. You just claim that the limits are too low so it doesn't count. LOL

This statement is also untrue (as well as based on a flawed concept of what "profit" is). At CERTAIN levels that much is won or lost on every hand, sure. At some levels, that much wouldn't cover half of the small blind for one hand. And at other levels, that much is 10x the max amount needed to buy into the table.

Notice that I'm primarily focusing on your blanket generalizations of how you perceive life in the poker world, which, contrary to your thoughts, is not how things always or typically work. Although, some of what you say does happen, I'm not denying that. But it isn't an all the time scenario. There are too many variables which you choose to ignore or simply redefine the meaning of to try to make your point.

First of all, my total bankroll is significantly larger than $30 (as if that somehow really matters). Had you actually read all of the words in my previous post, you'd potentially understand that I was talking about a specific site (Tropical Poker) in which I ran this experiment with building my bankroll there without deposit. Secondly, commenting on poker and sharing opinions on poker issues has nothing to do with bankroll. We have some members here that only play with play chips. Are you saying their opinions aren't valid? What about the ones that play at higher stakes than you? Are their opinions more worthy? You like blanket responses so much, then here is one for you...NO, what level you play at and what your bankroll is has no bearing on your right or ability to comment on poker. If you don't like the fact everyone has a say, then I suggest you take your facist newbie post count attitude, pack it up, and go home.

LOL...this statement is just ignorant.

</rant>

I'm willing to give this a shot.

Oh, btw...just finished my rant above, so don't read it.

DL...if you were looking for a compairison, I dont really track exact BB/100 or anything but I play a lot of 1c/2c. I usually go to the table with 50c and leave after 1-1.5 hour with $1.5/$2. I would estimate 1 out of 5 sessions I'll go bust. On average I'll estimate that I usually get 100% profit per hour. I play some 2c/4c and some 5c/10c tables and my results are pretty similar.

JD said it all in his great reply earlier................

JD said it all really. I just have a fun point to make.

I'm sorry, you have less than 100 posts here so your opinions don't count. You're not a real member here until you at least pass the 100 post mark!

(I don't mean this of course, it's just a little comparison for you to consider when analyzing how ridiculous you sound)

Tell him how you really feel lol. You guys are just too cool! One of the things I like most about this forum is that people who play at all levels are respected for their opinions and can feel comfortable asking questions about their game - whether it is a .02/.04 game or $100 sng.

Thats about it...besides, people playing micro-limits usually aren't playing as a career but just doing it for fun and trying to build up a bankroll. Then any profit is good profit as long as its steady profit.

ouch!! but funny!

what???? you're saying I'm never gonna make a career playing at 2c/4c???? Have to rethink my future, I think!
Seriously, I think you're spot-on with that comment Jim. I have various accounts at a few sites, and none of them big. I love to play stt/mtts to boost my money up, but I also enjoy taking $2 to a 2c/4c table and having some fun for an hour.

Quoting, 'cause your question's kinda getting lost amongst the other stuff.

Not that I have an answer, but, if you have enough hand history of your own, you could use your own history and see how the ratio has fluctuated for your own playing. Then down the road you can point back and say, see, I am improving!