Is it me or a bunch of donks in NL.01/.02

Hey cardschat. I recently started playing .01/.02 nl again from what i was playing .10/.25. I am not yet a profit players as you can see i had to drop down dramatically. Some of if was from going on tilt and just giving tons of money away because i couldnt leave the table and also really bad BR management. I took the experience and am learning from it, well the BR management part. I am currently following Chris Ferguson BR management. I have been playing 6max nl .01/.02 and get my money in with the best of it but it just seems lady luck is not on my side. I push hard when i have the best or think i have the best but seem to get sucked out on a lot to gutshot straight or backdoor flushed. or my favorite runner runner to 4 cards to a straight or flush. Now i am wondering how r these ppl calling hands like 84os with two overcards and get lucky. And what makes me more mad is that they think they have made the best play possible. Now dont get me wrong i know in the long run i will be crushing them with my hand range which tends to be a lot better than what they play. Its just frustrating and i guess i just need to vent. Also was wondering if ppl have any advice for me. I have tighten up alot since playing this limit and rarely bluff but seem to still lose. Is this just something thats going to happen or is it possible that i have a major leak that i am not seeing. Please any advice would be truly apprieciated.
Thanks,
Aesop

Yeah 2NL is a donk infested limit(withc is a good thing ).
Sure varience will be bitch but if u work on your game and just play solid poker u should be crushing it in no time.
Maybe post some HH in the HA section just to make sure its just varience?
Also u might be intrested in this thread http://www.cardschat.com/f50/ring-ga...eading-144488/ (http://www.cardschat.com/f50/ring-game-hand-analysis-required-reading-144488/).
Its basicly every thing u need to know about ring.

Good luck and hopefully you will be raking in the $ in no time

I think you should adopt the attitude that you have a certain amount each time you sit down, say $2, and try and play with this for as long as possible. Treat it as leisure time and try and get value for money out of it i.e. $1 per hour or whatever. At the end of every hour take away anything you have over $2 and just keep adopting the same attitude. Works for me.

ohh hell yeah..so eay to make a little bit of money.
Just stay aggressive and you'll make some good money

At the .01/.02 level, you have to look at the big picture (really you should always be looking at the big picture) so that these few hands don't put you on tilt.

I think Sindri gave good advice in the HA section. Good luck.

The smaller tables are def a donk fest - in my opinion. When playing there it just seems so cheap to call almost any cards just to see the flop. I generally dont like playing there cos I become a total donk myself.

I play a lot of 01/02 and there is def a lot of donks there. But the attitude from most of the players I have seen especially at Pokerstars is that it is just pennies. This is a good way to improve your game and make a little money. Certainly my stepping stone to the next level. Hopefully I will never have to return there once I have BR big enough to leave.

This is probably your leak. One of my favorite quotes is, "The game is called poker, not 'waiting for the nuts.'"

One of my base principles is that you have to win half your money without showing your cards.

I'm not saying you should be anxious to put your money in with crap in bald-face bluffs. But you have to pick your spots when you are betting against people having cards that match the board. You have to learn to tell a story with your bets that represents having a winning hand that you don't actually have. You have to take chances on semi-bluffs, when you may not have the best hand, but you bet like you do. To quote Doyle Brunson, "You gotta learn to win with the worst hand."

The other thing that strikes me about your post, is that there is no mention of position play, which makes me wonder if you know what that is. Position play is the foundation of good poker. If you don't know it, learn it.

This is 1/2 we're talking about here. ABC poker = profitable. Do not bluff.

I hate the donks on .01/.02. .However I tend to play more looser on that level then I would say a .05/.10 level.You get alot of limper in the .02 NL so I try to limp for cheap unless I have a Top 5 Hand.I make most of money on that level by limping and when I flop the monster I get paid off.

Stop giving bad advice. You could never bluff, never c-bet, and never raise an implied odds hand preflop at 1c/2c and still win at a healthy rate.

Was playing there for a bit today. Saw one guy calling every bet every hand. He said he wanted to build the pots to get the fulltilt points because it was happy hour and he needed 12 points for his next tourney. He dropped about $5. I dont know how many points he got, I started to wonder if others are doing this?
Seems kinda stupid to me... but you never know.

And you know this how?

And you know for certain also that by mixing in some bluffs, c-bets and speculation bets, one's win rate will decline at that level?

Because I built my roll from a 50$ deposit playing 2$ NL for 2 months. After that, I had 300$ and was rolled for 10$ NL. I've pulled myself out of the microstakes, which you haven't accomplished after "40 years of experience", so I think I know what I'm talking about.
No, it won't decline. But at 2NL, you need to focus on playing the right hand ranges vs. the right players, and always staying ahead of their range.

Telling a $2 NL player that he needs to "learn to win with the worst hand" is a great recipe for a long string of losing sessions. Winning with weak hands requires good hand reading & betting skills that players at this level just do not have. And from reading your hand histories, you don't have these skills either.

So my simple bullet point advice to a beginning 2$ NL player is this:

- Play strong hands that are better than your opponent's hands. This applies not only preflop, but on the flop, turn, and river.

- Focus on getting maximum value when you have a strong hand. This means rarely slowplaying, and betting (and more importantly, raising) large enough to give your opponent poor odds to call. When you have a strong hand, and you're not sure what the best action is, then just press the "bet pot" button.

- Never put more than 4% of your bankroll on the line at a given table. If you're learning, your win rate is going to be small and your variance will be large. Account for this by being a bankroll management nit.

- Donks make two mistakes in their play. They either call too much, or they bluff too much. And the way you exploit both of these mistakes is by playing very strong hands that are better than theirs.

- Use the hand analysis forum here to advance your game. The advice that some members (not all) give out is exceptionally good, and as good as any poker book you will ever read.

You're awful smug. For somebody who started with infinitely more money than I did, since I started with nothing. I've turned a $3 freeroll win into $30 in three months, which puts me slightly ahead of your pace. You multiplied your bankroll by 6x in two months, and I multiplied mine by 10x in three months.

There are lots of ways to play poker, and the only wrong way is to never bluff. I have never seen one book that said not to bluff. Nor have I ever seen a golf-instruction book that said to learn to swing a club with one hand.

These books probably aren't targeting 1/2c cash game players, where players WILL call your bluff with A high on a 9 10 J board.

also to the OP, have you tried full ring? i saw you wrote that you play 6max and also that you have problems with tilt and stuff sometimes, maybe you should try some full ring so you have a bit more time between blinds to be patient and pick your spots.

I don't agree that you should NEVER bluff at 1/2. I make most of my money at that level by being aggressive. They only time you're called is if they have a hand, and 90% of the time they don't.

I never use the word "never" when it comes to poker.

I just got a tiny bankroll selling play chips so I am playing 0.01/0.02NL on FullTilt. There are lots of players who will go in with everything obviously. One of the better strategies that I have found is that people are more likely to call an all in bet then a proper pot sized bet. If you have the nuts, pushing as opposed to making a proper sized bet if far more profitable. Just something I found.

I recently grinded 5,000 hands of 2NL at 30 PTBB/100. Here's how I did it:

1. Never bluff. (no, never)
2. Never blind steal. (I did, however, value bet decent hands in unopened pots from late position)
3. Limp with any possible nut hand. (suited connectors, pocket pairs)
4. Bet big hands huge preflop, aiming to get stacks in by the turn.
5. Bet strong draws to build pots and thin the field.
6. Overbet the pot when I hit a monster. (they will pay you off more often than not)

That isn't to say that that's the only way to win, but it worked for me. More than once I found myself reverting to "real" poker, until someone calling me down on the river with 22 unimproved reminded me that 2NL isn't real poker.

That's exactly how i played that level also... 42/BB on 10k hands... and as he says.. NEVER BLUFF unless you are playing a good player who thinks a bit more about the board (which rarely happens...) most of those donks will call your all in with KQ on the 4567Q BOARD... they dont pay attention to what can beat them... so pretending that you hit a straight is just a bad idea.. pretending that you hit a flush works sometimes on tight players...

If you are having trouble at the .01/.02 cent game, well you can always drop down to play money! Actually, the .01/.02 cent game is virtually the same as .02/.05 or even .05/.10. The .25/.50 game that you were playing is a different animal. The main difference is that in the smallest stakes, it just is not worth it to "steal" the blinds or even win them with good hands, as you will pocket a big 3 cents!

People try to steal the blinds constantly in .05/.10 tables, the beauty of it is for every time you lose a nickel folding the small blind, you might make .40, .50 cents or even more when you pick up a decent hand. The only hard part is staying patient when everyone around you is betting like crazy, especially pre-flop.

Dropping down to play money .lol .That was funny.I agree with what you are saying about stealing .03 of blinds,However I sometimes tend to reraise a raiser in late postion .It has paid off but be careful sometimes.

Try micro SnG..., they are better..., not much..., but better....lol

I will chime in on the sometimes bluff side here. You can bluff at these limits but you have to be observant because there are a lot of calling stations and totally clueless players.

So if you see a player folding to cbets often then its fine to bet them. If you see a player fold to double or triple barrel then it's ok once in a while to try a double or triple barrel against them. If you see someone call pot size bets to the river holding queen high and they beat someone who was bluffing you NEVER EVER cbet or bluff that player ever.

If you come across a calling station just bet pot each street when you have a hand otherwise check fold. Sometimes they will suck out but mostly they'll get stacked.

theres going to be donks in any limit there just bigger bank roll donks. listen that happens to me all the time and i cant get a break. i will start with 100 dollars make it between 800 to 1000 and than i cant win a hand to save my life. i will be in a tourny and i will play like i always do but every single pot i will be the 80% favorite or better and lose the hand to a 4 card flush a river three of a kind a belly buster or i will go all in before the flop with AA KK QQ AK ect.. and i will get 3 callers and the closest hand to mine is a Q 6 off and they will flop will come QQQ every time. ITS SICK

90% of the people that you play on the online sites have no idea what position play is and if they do they pay no attention to it.

Your pretty much looking at the smallest limit outside of play chips, of course there will be donks. Cant really blame yourself for that one unless you yourself donk off your money. My advice would be: play aggressive but not in stupid situations. If there isnt to much money in the pot there is no need to bluff at it, especially in these limits where youll get a call damn near everytime anyway. Limp with more reasonable hands: suited connectors, low PP, and just hope you hit something. If not, be willing to throw the hand away.

hem, no. 10x in three months means 2.15x every month and 4.64x over two months using a geometric progression.

if you prefer an arithmetic progression, you should consider he won $250 over three months and you a mere $27 over two month. Once again you're behind.

BTW, when i started playing, I turned $0.47 into more than $50 in a single month.

Gordon, you got to stop picking up fights you're bound to lose. C9 is most certainly not against bluffing. He's beating 100nl now and by the hands he posts in the HA section, he's probably one of the most aggressive players on this forum. But that would be a terrible way to play at 2nl, and he knows it. You don't. Which explains why you're still playing super micro stakes while he moved up to 100nl.

Try using these forums to get advice and hopefully to improve your game. Giving bad advice yourself is really not that helpful...

^^^ What Belgo said... I was just about to make a very similar post.

C9 makes some very good points, one would do well to go back and read them again.

You see players with 6.00 to 10.00 bucks at .01/.02 2nl tables??? That is coz there tight players, and you may see them at more then one table and there pros at that level.. thought even tho they are there i will still go after them...

Read up on some of what is on CC.... Donks may get some luck here and there but in the end the big hands count.. Thought you don't here my saying how 3 fish hit a str8 and flush when i had trips, coz i know some of it was my bad.

what do u mean are there donks in one penny, two penny no limit holdem hahahah. people could care less if they call 7 2 offsuit for like a dime raise, when your playing with pocket change your going to get the most donks with the exception of freerolls and play chips

"Never bluff" is a pretty strong phrase. But I WOULD say that a good player should very, very rarely bluff at 2NL. And the only time a good player could bluff at 2NL is if they find another "good player". The fact that there are so many bad players at 2NL makes finding a good player equal to finding a needle in a haystack. Usually the reason why they are at 2NL is because they are bad. And bad players don't fold to bluffs. Period.

IMO, 2NL is all about the showdown and the key to beating 2NL is to win at showdown. Figuring out who you can call down with 2nd pair, etc. (hero call) and who will call all-in PF with crap is what will rocket a good player from the micros to the small stakes quickly.

As long as you are sure that you have got the best hand then in the long run you will come out on top. I appreciate your frustration. There is nothing worse than betting strong with a good hand, especially once the flop is on the table, to then get hit with a flush or straight where the other guy needed both the turn and the river. You need to trust your game and know that over a long period the favorite will always come out on top.

I will post a hand just to show how "donks" make you money even in limit, it shows even someone with 10.00 bucks vs me with way less can chase hands and miss....

Holdem Normal $0.02/$0.04 - 2009-03-13 05:18:38 (ET)
Table: CHRISTINE AVE (Real Money) Seat #2 is the dealer
Seat 2 - ATSOK ($0.34 in chips)
Seat 3 - KIDKVNO1 ($0.81 in chips)
Seat 4 - JEROMY214 ($10 in chips)
KIDKVNO1 - Posts small blind $0.01
JEROMY214 - Posts big blind $0.02
*** POCKET CARDS ***
Dealt to KIDKVNO1 [Qc 9s]
ATSOK - Folds
KIDKVNO1 - Calls $0.01
JEROMY214 - Raises $0.02 to $0.04
KIDKVNO1 - Calls $0.02
*** FLOP *** [Qh Qs Js]
KIDKVNO1 - Checks
JEROMY214 - Bets $0.02
KIDKVNO1 - Raises $0.04 to $0.04
JEROMY214 - Raises $0.04 to $0.06
KIDKVNO1 - Raises $0.04 to $0.08
JEROMY214 - Calls $0.02
*** TURN *** [Qh Qs Js] A♦
KIDKVNO1 - Bets $0.04
JEROMY214 - Raises $0.08 to $0.08
KIDKVNO1 - Raises $0.08 to $0.12
JEROMY214 - Calls $0.04
*** RIVER *** [Qh Qs Js Ad] 6♥
KIDKVNO1 - Bets $0.04
JEROMY214 - Raises $0.08 to $0.08
KIDKVNO1 - Raises $0.08 to $0.12
JEROMY214 - Raises $0.08 to $0.16
KIDKVNO1 - Calls $0.04
*** SHOW DOWN ***
JEROMY214 - Shows [Kh Jh] (Two Pair, queens and jacks)
KIDKVNO1 - Shows [Qc 9s] (Three of a kind, queens)
KIDKVNO1 Collects $0.72 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total Pot($0.80) | Rake ($0.08)
Board [Qh Qs Js Ad 6h]
Seat 2: ATSOK (dealer) Folded on the POCKET CARDS
Seat 3: KIDKVNO1 (small blind) won Total ($0.72) HI$0.72) with Three of a kind, queens [Qc 9s - B:Qs,B:Qh,P:Qc,B:Ad,B:Js]
Seat 4: JEROMY214 (big blind) HI:lost with Two Pair, queens and jacks [Kh Jh - B:Qs,B:Qh,B:Js,P:Jh,B:Ad]