LOL @ odd hand...

#1 21st May 2008, 11:45 AM

Any ideas what opponents are holding?

PokerStars Game #17583978023: Hold'em No Limit ($0.01/$0.02) - 2008/05/21 - 06:29:19 (ET)
Table 'Moskva' 6-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: Scare.nl ($2.97 in chips)
Seat 2: Bademeister2 ($5.26 in chips)
Seat 3: werner311 ($1.78 in chips)
Seat 4: filius007 ($2.10 in chips)
Seat 5: TRM_SHRiMP ($6.62 in chips)
Seat 6: cooljeru ($2.22 in chips)
filius007: posts small blind $0.01
TRM_SHRiMP: posts big blind $0.02
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to TRM_SHRiMP [6c Ad]
cooljeru: folds
Scare.nl: folds
Bademeister2: raises $0.82 to $0.84
...obv. standard 42x BB raise.
werner311: calls $0.84
...getting good odds to call with ATC here.
filius007: folds
TRM_SHRiMP: folds
...Weak fold, I know. I play scared money.
*** FLOP *** [8c 9s 2s]
Bademeister2: bets $1.16
...Weak C-bet. And everyone knows that weak = strong.
werner311: folds
...Pro-like laydown after monster read. Even after putting in over 50% of his stack into the hand and getting about 3:1 odds to call, he can let his hand go.
Uncalled bet ($1.16) returned to Bademeister2
Bademeister2 collected $1.66 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $1.71 | Rake $0.05
Board [8c 9s 2s]
Seat 1: Scare.nl folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: Bademeister2 collected ($1.66)
Seat 3: werner311 (button) folded on the Flop
Seat 4: filius007 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 5: TRM_SHRiMP (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 6: cooljeru folded before Flop (didn't bet)

#2 21st May 2008, 12:45 PM

Superuser account chip dumping his illegal winnings at micro stakes for diversion, obviously.

Hand Analysis: your fold pre-flop is pretty weak. Raise for a squeeze play. Bademeister2 can't call OOP and obviously werner311 folds to strengh.

#3 21st May 2008, 1:16 PM

Can I ask what it is you expect when playing at these limits? Players at these limits are invariably playing for fun/education/and having a few beers. As such either just take their money off them or don't bother playing at these levels. What is a bit daft is playing at such micro-limits and then mocking the play of those involved. Such play is poker at the bottom end and if you're too good for it, play at a level more suitable to your ability.
Sorry to get so defensive, but I cannot stand snobbery in any walk of life and unfortunately there is a lot of snobbery in poker. Don't complain about bad play - take advantage of it. Occasionally you'll suck out, but these 'crazy' players should be your bankroll, you should treasure them, not smother yourself in feelings of superiority. That is, of course, IMHO.

#4 21st May 2008, 3:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strims

Can I ask what it is you expect when playing at these limits?
...To make big monies and earn enough FPPs for a Porsche with-in the next 210 years.

Players at these limits are invariably playing for fun/education/and having a few beers.
...As am I. Without the beer because I dont drink. And I have to play smart if Im going win enough to pay off my mortgage.

As such either just take their money off them or don't bother playing at these levels.
...Hmm, take their money or don't play. Thanks for breaking it down for me, it all seems so simple now.

What is a bit daft is playing at such micro-limits and then mocking the play of those involved.
...Well, you shouldve seen the weird play Greg Raymer and Daniel Negreanu were involved in when I was at their table playing the high stakes. I'd post it here to mock them, but they said if I did they'd take me off their myspace. Micro-limit is so much more easier to make fun of.

Such play is poker at the bottom end and if you're too good for it, play at a level more suitable to your ability.
...Too good for it? Im here asking for help and an analysis on the hand. I must skipped this chapter in HOH because it doesnt explain how to play against a 42x BB raise. I cant be at the top of my game if I dont know this valuable information.

Sorry to get so defensive, but I cannot stand snobbery in any walk of life and unfortunately there is a lot of snobbery in poker.
...Im obv. being quite the snob, aren't I? Should I change my custom user title? Snobby Snob Snob sounds fitting.

Don't complain about bad play - take advantage of it.
...Can't take advantage of a play I've never seen before. And Im actually putting this kind of play into my arsenal. What range of hands do you think i can raise 42x BBs with and get paid off?

Occasionally you'll suck out, but these 'crazy' players should be your bankroll, you should treasure them, not smother yourself in feelings of superiority.
...I do treasure them. They're all great folks, they pay for my home and my food. Pennies at a time, but Im used to the long hard grind as I 274 table the penny stakes on my 29 monitors. They pay for it all. Then on weekends, I fly them over to my mansion in Beverly Hills on my private jet and we chit chat and talk about hand analysis and stuff. Its all in good fun.

That is, of course, IMHO.
...You need to lighten up. IMHO

Above.
Now, if you excuse me I've got to hop on the play money tables and make fun of those players and brag about my superior poker knowledge.

ETA: So, dont think Im a complete jerk.
The hand played out very oddly, I found it amusing, and I wanted to share. Tell me what can a person holding to raise 42x BB? What can another person be holding to cold-call a 42x BB raise (more than half their stack) and then fold to a bet on the flop when they're getting better than 3:1 on the money to call ATC? It obv. wasnt chip-dumping. The play was bizarre, through and through.

#5 21st May 2008, 3:10 PM

You make some valid points Philthy, and blow me out of the water.

#6 21st May 2008, 3:11 PM

Semi-serios answer

Quote:

Originally Posted by philthy

Any ideas what opponents are holding?

PokerStars Game #17583978023: Hold'em No Limit ($0.01/$0.02) - 2008/05/21 - 06:29:19 (ET)
Table 'Moskva' 6-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: Scare.nl ($2.97 in chips)
Seat 2: Bademeister2 ($5.26 in chips)
Seat 3: werner311 ($1.78 in chips)
Seat 4: filius007 ($2.10 in chips)
Seat 5: TRM_SHRiMP ($6.62 in chips)
Seat 6: cooljeru ($2.22 in chips)
filius007: posts small blind $0.01
TRM_SHRiMP: posts big blind $0.02
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to TRM_SHRiMP [6c Ad]
cooljeru: folds
Scare.nl: folds
Bademeister2: raises $0.82 to $0.84
JJ, dang I hate these, they always get busted, I'll raise big and take it down now
werner311: calls $0.84
Ohhhh big raise means midPP, my KQo could bust it
filius007: folds
TRM_SHRiMP: folds
*** FLOP *** [8c 9s 2s]
Bademeister2: bets $1.16
Ha, didn't get screwed this time, let's milk it now
werner311: folds
Oh well, next time
Uncalled bet ($1.16) returned to Bademeister2
Bademeister2 collected $1.66 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $1.71 | Rake $0.05
Board [8c 9s 2s]
Seat 1: Scare.nl folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: Bademeister2 collected ($1.66)
Seat 3: werner311 (button) folded on the Flop
Seat 4: filius007 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 5: TRM_SHRiMP (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 6: cooljeru folded before Flop (didn't bet)

#7 21st May 2008, 3:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jillychemung

Semi-serios answer

Honestly, thats what I was thinking. I know werner is a call station PF, so he can be holding ATC. As for the initial raiser-its either a) JJ or QQ for the reasons you described or possibly b)KK-AA. The bet is big and really bizarre, and perhaps this might tempt another player to over value a weak Ace hand, KQ, QJ, etc type hands and call or possibly shove.

Im actually leaning towards a JJ hand, the bet on the flop isnt one that looks like he wants to milk the opponent with his over-pair. He wants to take it down now.

#8 21st May 2008, 3:23 PM

I have seen this so much playing live lately and the players that do it ALWAYS say how much they hate playing JJ, TT etc. Heck even had one lady push AI on the 1st hand of the tournament, 6600 starting chips 25/50 blinds, when she was UTG and show AA and then complain for the next 15 minutes how her AA always gets busted. She then gets AA twice more before she is busted and yep she was AI preflop each time to a chours of 'You must have AA' from the rest of the table.

#9 21st May 2008, 3:45 PM

First off, ur playing .1/.2 cent blinds, you cant squeeze on these tables. you cant even bluff. A6 is a junk hand fold it preflop 90% of the time unless you are in position. I remember playing these tables and they make me puke

#10 21st May 2008, 3:52 PM

Bademeister2's had 24os obviously and had recently read about the awesome powers of 24 right here at cardschat. Caller probably had AQ but knew 24 would win in the end so he just gave up. Smart play all around.

#11 21st May 2008, 3:55 PM

In the past, this kind of play was the realm of kitchen table games among friends and family members. I miss the good old days.

#12 21st May 2008, 4:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philthy

Above.
Tell me what can a person holding to raise 42x BB? What can another person be holding to cold-call a 42x BB raise (more than half their stack) and then fold to a bet on the flop when they're getting better than 3:1 on the money to call ATC? It obv. wasnt chip-dumping. The play was bizarre, through and through.

I think you are trying to rationalise the irrational. Looked at in poker terms a raise of 42x BB is normally ridiculous (I say normally because there are times when this play may be worthwhile depending on the history between the players and the general play at a table, indeed, in this instance it wasn't a ridiculous play as the villain got paid off), looked at from the perspective of an inexperienced player or someone who just wants a bit of fun, it wasn't a bet of 42x BB, however, but a raise of a paltry 84c. The initial call is also understandable from an inexperienced player, again because of the trivial amount involved - if he hits he's going to clean up. Not calling the post flop bet also makes sense if he got no part of it - disregard the pot odds he was getting because he probably doesn't understand the concept and would not look at things from this perspective.
These are not plays that anyone with any experience is going to make, but I make the point again that you are wasting your time if you are trying to work out what was going on, because in poker terms it was simply wacky play by people who either, (i) don't know any better, or (ii) couldn't care less anyway due to the tiny amounts involved.
I don't think you're a complete jerk, but just accept it for what it is - an average day at micro limit tables.

#13 21st May 2008, 4:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strims

I think you are trying to rationalise the irrational. Looked at in poker terms a raise of 42x BB is normally ridiculous (I say normally because there are times when this play may be worthwhile depending on the history between the players and the general play at a table, indeed, in this instance it wasn't a ridiculous play as the villain got paid off), looked at from the perspective of an inexperienced player or someone who just wants a bit of fun, it wasn't a bet of 42x BB, however, but a raise of a paltry 84c. The initial call is also understandable from an inexperienced player, again because of the trivial amount involved - if he hits he's going to clean up. Not calling the post flop bet also makes sense if he got no part of it - disregard the pot odds he was getting because he probably doesn't understand the concept and would not look at things from this perspective.
These are not plays that anyone with any experience is going to make, but I make the point again that you are wasting your time if you are trying to work out what was going on, because in poker terms it was simply wacky play by people who either, (i) don't know any better, or (ii) couldn't care less anyway due to the tiny amounts involved.
I don't think you're a complete jerk, but just accept it for what it is - an average day at micro limit tables.

All valid points made. I think one thing you over-looked was the sarcasm in my original post. I wasn't trying to analyze the play really go into depth about the hand. Simply posted for its quirkiness and thats it.

#14 21st May 2008, 4:59 PM

This is obv a situation where the 2 villains get dealt AA and KK at least twice as often online, but you don't which is why you have A6, and then make super raises to get more money in the middle. KK realizes he is facing AA when he doesn't slow down on the flop, so he makes a pro lay down like the Brunson/Reese hand from the 06 HORSE final table.

#15 21st May 2008, 7:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philthy

Above.
Now, if you excuse me I've got to hop on the play money tables and make fun of those players and brag about my superior poker knowledge.

ETA: So, dont think Im a complete jerk.
The hand played out very oddly, I found it amusing, and I wanted to share. Tell me what can a person holding to raise 42x BB? What can another person be holding to cold-call a 42x BB raise (more than half their stack) and then fold to a bet on the flop when they're getting better than 3:1 on the money to call ATC? It obv. wasnt chip-dumping. The play was bizarre, through and through.

to his defense, this hand is not played oddly at all for this limit, in fact this is all i see the the .01s. i sit down, i fold/fold/fold, drop to 4.90, get KK, call someones 50x raise, or reraise, win 80% of the time.

#16 21st May 2008, 11:11 PM

call and open shove flop imo

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