Live MTT, ruling please.

This one has being irking me all week. Hand is from a $50 self-dealt tourney that I play on Thursdays. The tourney is self-dealt until the final table, I don't mind the place in question charges no rake.

Effective stacks are around 20bb. I raise with AA from the button, one limper and the BB calls. Flop is 10 high, fish from MP bets, I count out a raise and realise that its committing me and shove.

Whilst I'm counting my stack out, the dealer tables the turn card, (card is a black 7) giving the BB a set, he snaps, as does the MP player. I call the TD looking for a ruling, he dosnt have a clue. Oz ?

Ruling ?

http://www.learn-texas-holdem.com/qu...ut-of-turn.htm

Similar situation.

I would say that you should have been able to take your bet back.

This was a dealer error. Once you called out raise, the cards should not have been dealt. I'm pretty sure in this situation, you'll be able to take back your bet. How did it go down anyways?

Most Brick and Mortar will put the miss dealt card back in the deck and shuffle the cards. Then allow the betting to continue. Then deal the card again. No need to burn if the burn card has already hit the table. It has happened a few times during a live tourney I was in and they just put the card back in and shuffled. It sucks either way, especially if the player exposed their hand when the card improved it. X

Wow that sucks. I've had a similar experience before, what xpokerchic said was exactly what was done in my case

Ok I had this very situation in my Poker rule quiz question #4


Poker rules quiz

and here is the Roberts Rules of Poker rule and additional explanation.

15. If the dealer prematurely deals any cards before the betting is complete, those cards will not play, even if a player who has not acted decides to fold.

4. The rules given for rectifying a holdem situation where the dealer has dealt the flop or another boardcard before all the betting action on a round are inferior, because the dealer is told to not burn a card on a redeal. Since the “no burn” rule is so common, there was no choice but to use it here. It would be better for poker if the rule were changed to always burning a card. Here are these rules (the third rule and fourth rule in “Section 5 – Holdem”).
“If the cards are flopped before the betting is complete, or if the flop contains too many cards, the boardcards are mixed with the remainder of the deck. The burncard remains on the table. After shuffling, the dealer cuts the deck and deals a new flop without burning a card.”
“If the dealer turns the fourth card on the board before the betting round is complete, the card is taken out of play for that round, even if subsequent players elect to fold. The betting is then completed. The dealer burns and turns what would have been the fifth card in the fourth card’s place. After this round of betting, the dealer reshuffles the deck, including the card that was taken out of play, but not including the burncards or discards. The dealer then cuts the deck and turns up the final card without burning a card.
The portion of this rule saying the dealer does not burn a card on the redeal is inferior. It is harder for the dealer to control the card to be dealt if a burn is required. The sentence in the rule should read, “The dealer then cuts the deck, burns a card, and turns the final card.”
The present method for handling a premature dealing on the turn is used to have what would have been the last board-card used on the turn, and not reshuffling the deck until just before the last card is dealt. This method has four-fifths of the boardcards remaining the same, albeit in a different order. It would be better to reshuffle before the turn, preserving the chance of receiving the prematurely dealt card on either of the last two cards, as opposed to cutting that chance in half. The superiority of reshuffling right away is illustrated if the prematurely dealt card makes a gutshot straight-flush for a player.

Bottom line is that even if you were going to check the card does not play.

How did it end up getting handled?

Ok rereading the OP I see that you had shoved and he had not called yet but this still would be the case since the guy had not acted on his hand the card still would not play. The turn card would be taken off the board and then the guy can call or fold. once he has decided then the next card is burned and turned the card that was the turn gets put back in the deck (not the burn card also) shuffled cut and then no burn on the river just flip the river.

The TID ruled against me, made my bet stand and the bb takes me out with his set. Nothing personal against him, he is just not all that experienced. + The cash games there are insanely good.

I'm playing this game again tonight, just wanted to have the correct ruling for him.

I have always seen that same ruling where they shuffle the card back into the deck. It seems unfair to the guy who turned the set but he shouldnt have seen that card anyway. I would bring it up and say it is no big deal just so they know next time.

Sorry I'm late!

Grossberger has it: Robert's Rules section 3, irregularities, rule 15:

15. If the dealer prematurely deals any cards before the betting is complete, those cards will not play, even if a player who has not acted decides to fold.

In your case betting definitely wasn't complete so the card shouldn't play. And Grossberger again has it right, you fix the error as follows, per Robert's Rules section 5, hold 'em, rule 8

8. A dealing error for the fourth boardcard is rectified in a manner to least influence the identity of the boardcards that would have been used without the error. The dealer burns and deals what would have been the fifth card in the fourth card’s place. After this round of betting, the dealer reshuffles the deck, including the card that was taken out of play, but not including the burncards or discards. The dealer then cuts the deck and deals the final card without burning a card. If the fifth card is turned up prematurely, the deck is reshuffled and dealt in the same manner.

So the dealer takes the turn card off the board, leaves the burn card where it is, completes the flop betting round (ensuring that everybody knows the seven will not be the turn card but it's possible it could be the river card), burns again and uses the next card as the turn, completes that betting round, then puts the prematurely exposed seven back in the deck stub, reshuffles and deals the river without burning.

FWIW we discussed it in the other thread and Grossberger and I disagree on the not burning a card issue: I believe it has the least possible impact on the shape of the final board because four of the five board cards and all three of the burn cards are the ones that would've been there without the error.

But I digress - and obviously this is just the technical rule in one rule book (albeit the most commonly used one). The way the TD chooses to handle any given situation is, of course, completely up to them no matter how awful I think their decision was

Maybe buy a copy of Robert's Rules and bring it to the bar next time? If it's a game that you frequent that often and they don't know the rules themselves, I don't see why you wouldn't...

I have a copy somewhere lying around of Robert's Rules, ill have to dig it up and review it again. TBH I'm a bit of a rule nit at these games, this was just one that I was'nt 100% about. (My arguement was the same as above, except i was saying that the turn card is reshuffled into the deck and re-dealt), the TID argued that the call behind was "significant action", and the hand plays out as is.