limping w ak (not me)

anyone besides me REALLY recommend against limping with (obv aa, kk), but AK*? Especially on the button as this fella did...

*unless playing heads up

PokerStars. I liked the flop

not a huge pot but wanted to keep him around.
sometimes when it's late I like to play these micros to see how long I can stay awake

PokerStars Game #17416220392: Tournament #87724965, $2.00+$0.20 Hold'em No Limit - Level VI (100/200) - 2008/05/14 - 00:28:48 (ET)
Table '87724965 29' 9-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: flatidea (5810 in chips)
Seat 2: Whataboutj (4855 in chips)
Seat 3: canuk26 (6997 in chips)
Seat 4: wine jug_4 (1925 in chips)
Seat 5: un-diluted (9785 in chips)
Seat 6: LV2RALPH (6081 in chips)
Seat 7: Eggjay (4015 in chips)
Seat 8: Meehael (2200 in chips)
Seat 9: poconomark (558 in chips) is sitting out
wine jug_4: posts small blind 100
un-diluted: posts big blind 200
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to un-diluted [Qc Tc]
LV2RALPH: folds
Eggjay: folds
Meehael: folds
poconomark: folds
flatidea: folds
Whataboutj: folds
canuk26: calls 200
wine jug_4: calls 100
un-diluted: checks
*** FLOP *** [Th 4d Ts]
wine jug_4: checks
un-diluted: checks
canuk26: checks
*** TURN *** [Th 4d Ts] K♠
wine jug_4: checks
un-diluted: bets 400
canuk26: calls 400
wine jug_4: folds
*** RIVER *** [Th 4d Ts Ks] 3♦
un-diluted: bets 600
canuk26: calls 600
*** SHOW DOWN ***
un-diluted: shows [Qc Tc] (three of a kind, Tens)
canuk26: mucks hand
un-diluted collected 2600 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 2600 | Rake 0
Board [Th 4d Ts Ks 3d]
Seat 1: flatidea folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: Whataboutj folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: canuk26 (button) mucked [As Kd]
Seat 4: wine jug_4 (small blind) folded on the Turn
Seat 5: un-diluted (big blind) showed [Qc Tc] and won (2600) with three of a kind, Tens
Seat 6: LV2RALPH folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: Eggjay folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: Meehael folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: poconomark folded before Flop (didn't bet)

I think the guy with AK played the hand fine and lost the least he could have. If he does raise their, your the BB and you still call and he still looses. But also if he raises on the button its hard for you to put him on a hand because their is so much blind stealing going on. As I will often re-raise if a button raises trying for the re-steal depending on his tendancies. you didn't metion if he was tight or loose and obviously he is passive. But i think his main thought is to avoid playing a big pot pre flop. I agree with playing post flop so I dont think he did anything wrong pre flop but he should have bet the flop to find out where he was thats about the only thing i would do diffrently. he just check called the whole way when if he bet the flop and you call or check raise he then know he has lost and would have lost less money

^^ disagree with the above. blinds are 100/200 so well worth picking up. why would you not raise with AK on the button? With AK on the button with no action before you, it is highly likely you are ahead of the blinds - so whats the point in limping as you are allowing both the SB and the BB to outdraw you on the flop? If either the SB or the BB reraises the button raise then you have a decision to make dependent on reads - ie. if he's a maniac then its prob an insta-call.

In my personal opinion I think the guy played it terribly preflop - although that being said post-flop I think he lost as little as he could have done.

Miggs.

No matter what he does pre flop if he standard 3x BB raises he still gets called and still looses. I wasn't saying I wouldn't raise but I am offering a viable explenation for his play, not to mention the only one at the table who can knock him out of the tournament is the BB. Daniel negreanu even is an advocate of small ball poker, so if this guy is trying to avoid a big pot then he did what he intended to do. Granted ya its not my style I am pumping that pot but maybe thats his style, the only thing i am saying is if he is trying to avoid a big pot then he did what he wanted to but he needed to re-raise on flop to find out where he stood.

Another thing to think about is some people think AK is just like have AA or kk, they think they have already won so maybe he was looking for you, the chip leader, to try and raise thinking he was weak.

Who knows, but their are others ways to play AK then just raise everytime it depends like I said earlier what were his tendancies is he tight/loose were you playing tight/loose aggressive or passive, their are so many variables that you need to include, which is how the table is playing but with all that said and not enough table info their are cases to limp with AK its not a made hand yet.

The button gains very little by raising here. They may pick up the blinds, but this will hardly make a difference to their chip position at this point. If everyone folds they make very little with a decent hand.

Additionally, the short-stack on the SB makes a button raise somewhat dangerous. They may decide to shove against what looks like a steal, which leaves the button with a choice of either losing the raise or racing for 20% of their stack.

AK is highly overrated. I have no problem with them limping here for deception purposes with the intention of folding if they miss. Obviously it didn't work out this time, but if that second T had been a J, their play would have likely paid them off nicely.

I saw Phil Ivey limp with aces TWICE during the early stage of the Poker After Dark episode that they replayed last week. He was in early position both times. On one of these, he gets four callers to the flop.

By limping out of position I think he expects a raise from later positions, but it obviously didn't work out.

I think if Ivey had posted his play on here and asked for advise he would have gotten a good trashing.

Rounder - if he raises standard 3x BB raise he is not neccessarily going to get called is he?

kenFischer - if the shortstacked SB thinks the raise is weak - and decides to push - he may very well do so with a range of A x or K x in which he is a massive favorite. I'm getting it in all day long versus a shortstack desperation push with AK.

I can understand the slowplaying with AA or KK (i personally would only do this in early position however) but AK is just a drawing hand - I'm just confused why you wouldnt want to pick up the blinds or get it in against a desperation shortstack push?

No, because limping with aces is absolutely necessary to do SOME of the time against good players. If you never limp aces, and you limp, they already know that you do not have AA. If he made that play online against low-stakes players who aren't all that great, well let's just say I think he's smart enough not to do that.

It is also ahead of or flipping with all hands except for AA/KK. "Drawing hand" is a next to useless term that makes no sense to describe AK.

This is the funniest thing I've read all day. So a hand that's only significantly beat by two other very unlikely hands is a "highly overrated" hand? And what do you mean there's a tough decision if the SB goes all in? It's an insta call, and one any good player is glad to make too. What's wrong about racing? It's definitely a +EV move, and you know you have to run exceedingly good to win a tournament, so why are you reluctant to put your chips in? And it's only for 20% of the stack too, even if you lose you're more than healthy. I don't get it. Rethink please...

zachvac i meant that AK does need help to improve, but totally agree with ABorges above ^^

No it haves plenty of showdown value

limping with AK.......no way Jose