Limit players - how many bad beats per session

Hi all

I"m new to here, but have been playing poker for over a year. I have played 60,000 hands at .5/1 and I hate to admit this, but I'm still a losing player. My PokerTracker db shows me at a winrate of negative 0.4 bb/100 . Now for my first 20,000 hands or so I was very weak tight and my stats were something like vpip 14 pfr 6 total aggression around 1....very pathetic. I actually was around break even with those stats, but I realized I needed to play more agressive. My stats are now 17/10/2 ish over my last 30,000 hands (full ring only). Everytime I read an ideal stats thread, my stats pretty much look bang on including attempt to steal blinds/defend blinds, blah blah blah.

Anyways, having said all that, I am still finding that 6 out of 10 sessions are losing sessions and that I'm still not winning money. I always review my sessions after playing and generally my play is OK, except that I will have hands like this (I"m not going to bother posting the actual hand as I don't want to go thru the hassle).

I raise AQ - flop comes J 10 K against 2 others with the flop and turn both capped with me being the aggressor....river comes 10....**** me...you bet, small blind had J 10...he leads out and I just call since I know I'm beat. $20 pot goes to small blind with 4 outter

I have AA and it's 4 players to the flop with a couple cold calling 3 bets preflop. Flop comes out 5/6/9....get a couple calls on the flop. Turn is a 2, I lead out, get raised and I call down as I know for sure the raiser has 22. Sure enough he did and he hit his 2 outter on the turn. Bye Bye $15 pot

I normally play 300 - 400 hand sessions and I ALWAYS get at least 2 to 5 hands like this per session and I'll end the session down 5 or 6 big blinds. If those 2 bad beats didn't happen, I would have booked a nice 30 BB session...heck if even one doesn't come I'd still be up for the session.

I guess I just want to know how often these bad beats happen to other limit players? Is it common to lose to 2 outters three or four times per every 300 hands? Any insight would really help me out.

I've been a bonuswhore during the entire time, so although I've lost a couple hundred bucks in poker, I've made about $6000 in bonuses, but it is really frustrating to experience these losing sessions that arise because of 1 or 2 hands in a huge session. Any insight would really help me out.

Basically I think I"m done with limit as all the $ seems to be made in NL now.

Hi, welcome. Where do you play? I'm thinking it might be a normal occurrence when playing lower limits. Just a guess...

Since I'm a bonuswhore, I play every site imaginable. I probably have played at 30 sites. I have noticed a big change in the .5/1 game since I started at Party with the sign up long ago. The players then were very weak passive and often you would see 5 handed pots, but now the players are way more LAGish with table averages often being something like vpip 25-30ish and PFR around 6-10% with alot of pots being 2-4 players nowadays. That's fine because the players are still bad, and I feel I should be beating them but I am not.

I see people claiming 2bb/100 winrates over a large sample, but of course they never post their pokergrapher stats. With the rake being about 3bb/100 at these limits, I doubt someone is beating the game for 5bb/100 after taking into account rake....I dunno, maybe I'm wrong. Last year, yes the games could be beaten at that rate, but like I said I've noticed a big change in how the games have played in the past 6 months or so.

I guess I"m just frustrated as I've tailored my game to the "ideal" stats over the last 30000 hands and my "winrate" has dropped from my weak tight days.

I just a wrote a rant on the 'bad beat board' about limit hold'em. There's too many suck outs and if luck is not on your side you will lose regardless of your skill. I will stick to NL and you should too as long as you know what u doing.

I don't have any larger samples available, but I agree; very large winrates at the small stakes (ranging from say $1/$2 to $10/$20) is not really achievable because of the rake. That's not to say you can't win (that's definitely doable), it's just that you can't expect to have very big winrates.

(The largest sample I could produce myself is last year's totals, which is about 50k hands with a 1.4BB/100 win-rate at various levels, but I ran pretty hot at 2/4 so that needs to be taken with a grain of salt)

Down another 15 BB after 600 hand session

7 flush draws and I hit none of them. I swear I've hit maybe 1 out of 5 massive flush draws over my last 30,000 hands. These are 15 BB pots I'm talking about too.

What else today...actually didn't have the usual 2 outters today, but did have

JJ and TT loses to 6 outters on turn
Top pair on flop loses to runner runner 2 pair (guy called with Queen high and a backdoor on flop)

If one of these does not happen, I'm up for the day

Once again, can someone please post a winning graph from .5/1 over 50,000 hands...didn't think so. The rake is not beatable

I couldn't post a winning graph of $.50/$1 because I'm not sure I used PT when I played those limits. I could check. Another point to be made is the fact that winning players don't tend to play 50k hands at $.50/$1; they're pretty likely to move up in limits way before they reach those kind of numbers. I don't think I played more than 15k hands at any level before 3/6.

It's also worth pointing out that the rake, counted as BB/100, is (at least at Stars) a lot higher at 3/6 and 5/10. And although it's bad enough that it's hard to sustain a high winrate, the games are still very beatable.

300 more hands - dowm 8 BB

0 for 3 for flush draws again

TPTK loses to flushes 3 seperate times (so I can never hit any of my draws but everyone else can....lol), with 2 of those pots being capped on flop and turn just with the draw....15 BB pots each....lol


Once I'm done the current bonus, I'm done with poker

Week later

Down 30 BB from last update

Today full house Kings over jacks lost to a straight flush on the river, 1 for 7 on huge nut flush draws, TPTK loses to four flush draws heads up (why can they hit in small heads up pots, and I miss on huge multiway pots). AA loses to three flopped sets, KK loses to runner runner straight....

You didnt say how long uve been playing poker, but it happens a lot. Obviously it happens the more hands you play.

1,5 years and 60000 hands

Today's delights

Set of 9's loses to an open ended straight draw that hits on the river...villain capped it on the turn with just the draw

0 for 4 on flush draws

Straight loses to a flush

Straight loses to a higher straight

TPTK loses to a straight on the river in 20 BB pot

AK goes down to QQ on x/x/q/k/k board. He check called the flop....brilliant

The first thing I tell anyone that plays limit and does not win in the long run is limit is a different game then NL. This game is all about odds. Get your money in when your odds are with you. That is all you need. Just remember in a limit game you cant recover from a mistake as fast so if you make a 40 mistake by not playing your odds. This will take a while to fix. If you make even a few of these a hour you will lose.

Now addressing your question about bad beats. They happen more in limit due to the players that just dont care about money.Yea sure this sucks but they are the reason why you are there. The bad beats happen because of someone is hoping there one card will hit. Use this to your advantage. If you cause the other players to make more mistakes then you make you are golden. I know this because limit is all i play. Its all I do also. 50hours a week Follow this and you will see you will win. Dont be bold every 20 hands and bluff just play smart and you will come on top.

my advice don't play limit if you can't stand payers on the draw. However if you are to play try playing higher up. Not only does the rake in lower games prevent anyone from really winning, but you will also get far to much action. 2-4 5-10 should be the minimum.

5/10 is, by most counts, the place where the competition in comparison to the rake hurts by far the most. If you want to get to a point where rake is starting to be of less importance, you're looking at $15/$30, and not a lot of people can afford the $9k bankroll needed for those levels.

Cleared the Party bonus which was an easy $100 6 tabling

Anyways, back to the grind at POkerroom where I"m clearing the signup bonus

KQ runs into 66 on a KKQ flop.....6 on the turn of course

K6 suited in a three handed table loses to A3 on K62 flop.....villain goes 33

44 flops 4/a/k two diamonds in a huge 6 way pot...turn was a diamond and the guy who hit it check called the turn and river...of course I go 0 for 4 on nut flush draws

Do not play at the Ongame network. I have played 60000 hands of poker and have never seen such ridiculous turns/rivers. ONe out of every 5 hands is a set, boat or flush which is ridiculous