LF Recommendations to make $20 to $40 a day

Hey guys, I am looking for some recommendations on what level and strategy to use to make about $20 to $40 a day in a reliable way. Well as reliable as poker allow obviously.

I have unlimited time to play, as I lost my job, so I have no problem putting in long hours, even of my hourly rate isn't great.

I have no delusions about getting rich. I have 2 roomates so my living expenses are low, about 1k a month, which includes my car payment, so this is what I am shooting for.

I can 3 table reliably, more than that is above my ability until I get more experience.

My br is less than $250 and is on FT, and I don't have rakeback because even though I signed up directly through FT they said my account was tagged to another affiliate. I didn't know about rakeback or clearing my cookies or anything when I created it.

I would appreciate any advice! Thanks

You are rolled for 25 buy ins at 10NL. I would start there, but I wouldn't expect to win 20 to 40 a day.

Focus on getting a job first so you can have income. Your BR alone is nothing to live off of. Youre already -$750 behind and you havent even started playing yet. So even If you got your roll up to 1k, you cash it out and pay a months worth of bills then you have zero in your account and bust. You'll need to turn that $250 into $2,000 within a month to do anything and you're not likely to do that playing way high. You'll be busto within a couple of days.

Advice...

1. Part time job AT THE LEAST.
2. Google BRM (or search this site)
3. Dont look at it as a job until you're atleast over $10,000

GL

Try the 9 man STT $1 SnG.

I have been actively job searching for over 2 months. The unemployment rate in my region is ridiculous because of the economy.

I am familiar with bankroll management, which is why I have maintained and slowly grown my bankroll from $35 deposit to where it is currently playing micro cash and mtts.

My question is more oriented to what style at what levels to play to work my way up. Obviously the strategy in donk fest low levels must be different as the levels rise.

As well as what level of cash game/sng will I need to be playing in the future at to generate the $20 to $40 per day.

I have read that a super tight style can generate a small, reliable profit, but I am unsure if that will work in levels as low as say 5NL or 10nl.

Yes wait for your hands and make sure you aren't the one loosing big pots. When your chip stack starts to dwindle, leave the table.
I have a feeling the limits of your bankroll are not going to enable to make 20$ a day unless you are freaking crushing the tables.

poker is just for fun with your BR ,don't risk it. try the Sng maybe, but u probably won't get 20 to 40. or you will loose all.

I find it hard to believe you can't find a job to pay $20-$40 a day. When I was fourteen I got that for babysitting for 4 hours.

The thing about poker is its all about the long run, and the long run is long indeed.

Very solid professional players have losing streaks lasting months and hundreds of thousands of hands, so the concept of "making per day", should go out the window immediately. Thats assuming that your a wining player in the first place and not just on an upswing.

You don't say where your from, but if your a non-American then I'd seriously consider bonus whoring, and setting up a neteller account. Its probably the only way to get a steady income.

With your BR, I would play the $5 STTs and some $5 45 man sngs too.

You can't guarantee winning $20 a day, but if you can beat that level, you would be likely to make $150 profit per week if you play alot of games.

You could throw in the odd MTT and a nice cash in one of those could win you $1k right there.

Best of luck.

Relying on poker for steady income is a recipe for disaster. You will inevitably run into a "run worse than you could have possibly imagined" which will destroy your bankroll if you are constantly cashing out. Anyone that "goes pro" is generally playing 100NL+ AND has several months living expenses saved up. As has been stated, your best bet is to find other sources of income. If this is truly your only option, keep reading:

That said, if you're interested, some approximations to put things into perspective (oh and just a fyi that a. rake destroys win rates at the micros and b. you really have to be able to crush these stakes). You're probably better off with SnGs with that bankroll but your variance will likely be higher. Also, cash is more profitable in the long run. Good luck.

5nl:
8 tabling @ 5BB/100 = ~600 hands / hour @ $.5/100 = $3 / hour
12 tabling @ 3BB/100 = ~900 hands / hour @ $.3/100 = $2.7 / hour
12 tabling @ 5BB/100 = ~900 hands / hour @ $.5/100 = $4.5 / hour

10nl:
4 tabling @ 5BB/100 = ~300hands / hour @ $1/100 = $3 / hour
8 tabling @ 3BB/100 = ~600 hands / hour @ $.6/100 = $3.6 / hour
8 tabling @ 5BB/100 = ~600 hands / hour @ $1/100 = $6 / hour
12 tabling @ 3BB/100 = ~900 hands / hour @ $.6/100 = $5.4 / hour

$5 turbo STTs:
4 tabling @ 15% ROI = ~4 games / hour @ $.83/game = $3.3 / hour
8 tabling @ 10% ROI = ~8 games / hour @ $.55/game = $4.4 / hour
8 tabling @ 15% ROI = ~8 games / hour @ $.83/game = $6.6 / hour
12 tabling @ 5% ROI = ~12 games / hour @ $.28/game = $3.3 / hour
12 tabling @ 10% ROI = ~12 games / hour @ .55/game = $6.6 / hour

this thread made me lol at first :/ then I realized i was like this at one point when i first started to and feel so proud to be able to help you out.

all the info you have given us is great, but...

1.What games have you played before?
2.Whats your winrate in those games?
3.How big is the sample size?
4.Do you already have HEM/PT3?
5.How many hours can you really sit on your arse infront of a computer performing a mentally exhousting task?


if you can answer these questions i think the CC'ers could give you much more precise advice specific to you.

i make $15/hr from rakeback/bonus's where i play and thats only at 20nl. if you know who to talk to you can get some super great deals.

I'm doing something seriously wrong then, this is great Munchrs...

OP, as Munchrs mentions above, your experience in different games would be useful to know, there are lower variance games than NLHE.

what type of rakeback deal did that get that you make that much. At what limit does the rake not hurt you so bad like the micros?

im making $10 a day playing NL5 atm. Jus find the fish and let him pay u off.
Im sure when i make it upto NL25 I could start to look at $25/50 a day.

Not to burst your bubble, but there is not exactly a lot of market for a grown man to babysit, thats generally for teenage girls or family members.

And really your comment is completely irrelevant to my question, which is about poker, not my personal life. You know nothing of my circumstances to make such a generalization.

I have been working for over 10 years prior to losing my job. The unemployment rate in this small town over 20%. The employment classifieds section in our local newspaper is literally blank almost every day. Even McDonalds/fast food places aren't hiring. And believe me I would gladly wash dishes, scrub toilets, or pretty much anything at this point.

Back to the point, I can make 5 to 10$ a day (6 to 10 hours) 3 tabling 2NL, buts thats primarily because the level of play is so bad and people will stack off easily.

Thats not enough to live on obviously, but a potential start. I know I can't sustain this profit ratio in higher limits, as people are much better players even at 5nl. But I think even if I was to 12+ table 2NL for 10 hours a day, my brain would probably melt before it became worthwhile.

I would assume 1/2 NL would be the minimum level to make a small living?

carfire77

please, please answer these:

Oh and do you live in US?

I really want to help you but dont really have a clue how usefull my adice is if i dont know the full picture in my mind.

1. I am primarily a MTT, large SNG player. I play 2NL and use that daily profit to play the DD and other small buyin tourneys and grind my br up.

I have only had one big cash (well big to me) for a 2nd place and $1850 on Stars, which I had to cash out and is how I caught up on my bills right before I lost my job.

2. My winrate at 2NL is techinically really good, but of course thats because the players stack off easily and its easy to bide your time til you trap them with set or something.

3. My 2NL rate has been consistent for 4+ months at 2k to 4k hands per session on average multi tabling.

4. I don't have HEM/PT3. I'd love to, I just can't afford it. I certainly understand how valuable it is for improving your game and plugging leaks.

5. The bright side to having no job is that I have no time constraints so I am free to in serious hours and more than willing to do so.

Do you prefer SNG to cash games or vice versa?
Have you ever played anything other than NLHE?

also if you dont mind sharing can you post your screenames for the sites you play tourneys on or PM if you want them to be private.

If you can try and do some heads up games, maybe try starting at $5 heads up games than winning a couple of em upgrade to $10

It looks to me, and, I think, most of us, that you are in for a rude awakening if you think you can survive on poker winnings with that small of a bankroll. Sure, you might be able to make $20/day if you grind for 10 hrs a day....some days. ($2/hr!) Other days, you'll lose that much. Are you disciplined enough to stop for the day if you have lost $20?

There are ways to make money. Some are not glamorous. Shoveling snow, mowing lawns, handyman stuff, cleaning attics and basements, painting, walking dogs, catsitting. You likely have skills you could use. Be inventive -- find a niche. I like the index-card ads at the grocery store and local delis, with the pull-off tags. While you're there, ask for a job. Lots of jobs are not advertised, and if you are personable, honest, cheerful, diligent, they might find stuff for you to do. Ask around. I know it feels awful, and dire. But there is stuff out there, even wherever you are. It may not be the job of your dreams, but sometimes you gotta do what you can to pay the bills, and look for your better job on the side. What you do is not who you are. How you do it...is.

Good luck to you, whatever you decide to do.

I was, perhaps a bit harsh last night. It is, of course, possible to average $20/day even with your bankroll -- but it's not easy. Your BB/100 would have to be high. And variance is harsh. You would have to be very disciplined, very solid.

I would advise playing fixed limit ring games, play them tight (with an occasional foray into suited connectors and lesser hands), and grinding, grinding. No, you don't get to stack anyone at fixed limits, but you also do not get stacked yourself. Fixed is less swingy, more viable for sustained play. You can see flops relatively cheaply and get out if you don't connect. You can check-call, if you want, on your draws, limiting your exposure, your losses if the draw doesn't get there. These are different games than NL, so you will need to adjust if you play them. Expect people to stay in with draws. Your TPTK may not hold up, so play appropriately. Do not get greedy. Plan to build your BR a bit at a time, rather than in big wins. Fixed limit can get a bit boring played correctly, but, if you are playing poker as work, fun fun fun is not where it's at. Making money is the thing -- it's like a job at that point. You sit down and you work. Study up!

Razz and other less popular games can be good, too, as more people will sit down at tables without much of a clue. If you can get to be a solid player, you can do well. Razz, 2-7 Triple draw, badugi -- all reward tight play, just like any other form of poker. Stud HL is another good one, once you get the hang of it -- I like it better than Omaha H/L because there is less chance of your low getting matched. Lows are great in SHL -- they can turn into highs as well. There's at least one FT Academy lesson on it, and plenty of guidelines around.

Stay away from the wilder, looser games. Like NLHE and PLO. You cannot risk your bankroll on games that could bust you.

Play low buy-in tourneys --$1 and $2 -- and get your ITM percentage up around 20%. It can be a bit lower if you end up deep deep a lot. But, bottom line, you will bust out of many more tourneys than you make money in, unless you are crazy lucky.

9-person SNGs are more cost-effective than bigger tourneys, as you have a 1 in 3 chance of cashing. I see you like big SNGs and MTTs, but these are more risky investments. (If your ITM % is 20%, that's 1 in 5 -- compare to 1 in 3 for SNGs, assuming you do OK. It's a no-brainer which you should play if you want to get ahead steadily.) Going for big wins is all well and good, but it's dang hard to get them.

Good luck!

Oh, one thing I forgot to add is that you should focus on one type of game. The better you get at a game, the higher your win rate, and the smaller your downswings.

In terms of game types,
-it is possible to have a higher edge in NLHE ring, but FLHE ring is lower variance (note that they are completely different games so again, dont mix and match)
-PLO should pretty much be out of the question (high variance)
-MTTs should be out of the question (high variance)
-I have no idea how Razz or Stud play

Hey there,
This is my first post, but I am just curious as to specifically how you manage to make $15 an hour. I have averaged around 3-4BB/100 hands at the .10/.20 limits for about 50K hands, and have now started to get rakeback and clear bonuses as well. Could you let me know what limits you play and what else you do? Thanks.

No quick way to make 20-40 a day... at 250 following Chris Ferguson's BRM means you could only safely play about 2NL... if you stick to that you wont get near your goal until you can build your bankroll up.

I didn't mean to make 20-40$ a day with this small of a bankroll, I meant what levels, # of tables does it take to achieve that and how do I get there.

I had always pretty much just played in smallish MTTs and bigger SnGs for fun and not really played much cash games.

2NL wasn't hard to figure out because of all the family pots and getting donks to stack off when you have the nuts or near nuts.

However, its not what I would consider real poker, and is not a viable strategy at higher levels where you can't see the flop for cheap all the time.

I have little experience with fixed limit. I have had several people tell me its much higher variance because you can't push people around and off of draws like you can in NL.

I read Helmuths book about starting out playing FL with just the top 10 hands, betting all the way down, and making good money, but I have a hard time believing that is a viable strategy now, since that was when he was young and the masses were much less educated about poker.

I know there is nothing easier than 2NL, but I don't think I can play the amount of tables it would take to make $40 a day. I'm no Boku87.

I have never had success in SnGs, my AA always get killed by 8 6 offsuit allins and they flop a straight and that sort of thing.

lol, no succes in SNGs means you are not good at them not that you run bad, unless you have a super small sample size.

To earn $40 a day I would say you need to be playin 25nl 2k hands per day or 50nl 1k hands perday.

1k with 50nl??? Isnt that like .50/1 dollar tables? Are you sure? I mean are there going to be like no big hands? When you're starting with 50 does it really take that long to get another 40?

if you win at 8bb/100 and play 1k hands a day at 50nl your doing pretty well. You wont be playing 1k hands a day 1 tabling. Like 6 tabling for 2 hours at 6max. Longer at FR would do it.

Yea. I am a jerk from time to time. I still love you though. How's your poker adventure going?

But in all seriousness, I wouldn't expect poker to pay your bills until you've got enough money in it. As you can see from this thread, pros gauge their success by BB/100, playing X hands a session.

If you do not have the BR to support this kind of play (several thousand hand downswing - brought on by bad beats, being card dead, not getting action on your monsters, etc) then you probably won't be successful in the long run. Anybody can buy in for $100 and run it up to $1500 on an upswing. But expecting continued results is not wise.

Best of luck to you.

P.S. A big dumb mean cynnical bear . . . that wuvs you!

Didn't spoted this in other replys so here it goes;
If you're good at HU SNG you can make 20 $ a day starting whit 5 $'s hu.
In 2 weeks you can double ur BR and move to 10's $ were the competiton is the same and prob make 500-800 $ a month playing 40 HU SNG a day

L.E. the bankroll management requirments for HU SNG is 30-50 Buy ins; so whit 250 $ you qualify for 5 $' matches

There was a while there after my last post some months back where I was so broke I had numerous shutoff notices for water/electricity, lost my internet, and was way behind on my car payment. I ended up on food stamps because I literally had nothing to eat, which is something I was not proud of.

Dring that time, I pawned/sold all my stuff of any value, including my Gibson SG guitar and music gear. I literally had nothing and was seriously looking at joining the military rather or peace corps or anything, rather than end homeless.

Finally a couple months ago, when it was looking really grim, I got a job delivering pizza and I've been playing catch up since then. Better a job than none at all.

Now that I am semi-stable financially, though still rather poor lol, I have gotten back into poker and been slowly building br playing micros on a couple sites. Its tedious, but using proper br management is teaching me endurance and discipline that will serve me down the road when I can afford to move up past 5nl.

Thank you guys that answered me and offered me advice back when I posted this. I knew it was a far out question and I was under-rolled, so I expected some mockery, but I had nothing else to lose by asking, so I appreciate the helpful and informative answers

Glad to hear things turned around for you.

I'm just now going over this thread and noticed your earlier question about what limits would it take to sustain the income you wanted. You asked if you had to be at 1/2 to earn that kind of money. If you're good enough and can handle the volume, you can make six-figures playing 50NL. But you have to be crushing the game and have the discipline and fortitude (and bankroll) to achieve that.

I just play part time, after work and on weekends. When I'm focused and disciplined and playing my A-game, I can be a solid earner. When I was playing primarily 50NL, I might make $1500 in a month just playing part time. But then the next month I might lose $2000. Rakeback and bonuses helped a lot, but it was still very swingy, and I've just come to accept that I'm prone to burn-out. So generally when I start swinging wildly, I take a hiatus, do some studying and leak plugging, and will often jump over to SnGs/MTTs just to change gears and blow off steam. I often find that doing so gives me some fresh perspective and gets me out of that burn-out phase (the main reason I don't think I could ever grind for a living) -- this burn-out leads to impatience, boredom, tilt, and all sorts of problems that inevitably feed and multiply my swings.

Point I'm making is that variance is a beeyotch, and combined with your personal character traits, the swings can be brutal regardless of limits. So you can certainly make a living grinding the micros if you're built for it, but you can also take a beating. Whether you can attain a specific earnings goal is entirely up to you and your game. Nobody can really give you a recipe.

50NL is .25/.50. 100NL is .50/$1