LEADING

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NeverWinsRaces

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I feel i am a very good poker player with good hand reading abilities. Like all players i am still wanting to learn everyday so i keep an advantage over my opponents.
My actual question is about leading the flop with second pair oop. i really like checking it down to see end for small pot but i feel i could be making more money and taking down the pot with a bet on the flop. The reason i dont like doing this though is because if i get called and the turn is a bad card for me i have to check which gives a later oppenent the chance to bluff. You also risk being raised by later players with stronger hands.
Anyone have any insight?
Thanks
 
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NeverWinsRaces

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leading

Also when i want to check it down until the river i usally lose to a card on the river. I just really hate leading in early position.
 
flatcaller

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so much i can talk about. me personally i bet the majority of flops i raise pre with. most people are scared of a bet and most ppl, especially in HU, dont hit the flop. betting also will give you info on what you are up against along with prevents your opponent from making a steal. what flop you want to bet and dont want to bet will depend on your opponents range and flop. saying specifically what hands i bet and dont bet is very tough b/c it depends on table and who im up against. I will tell you i bet any type of garbage flop. if you have more specific question i may be able to better answer it
 
JusSumguy

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so much i can talk about. me personally i bet the majority of flops i raise pre with. most people are scared of a bet and most ppl, especially in HU, dont hit the flop. betting also will give you info on what you are up against along with prevents your opponent from making a steal. what flop you want to bet and dont want to bet will depend on your opponents range and flop. saying specifically what hands i bet and dont bet is very tough b/c it depends on table and who im up against. I will tell you i bet any type of garbage flop. if you have more specific question i may be able to better answer it

I like this guy.. He's making these statements without reference to hole cards. Cuz it doesn't really matter most times what your cards are. Just pay attention and learn to do what it takes to get the info you need.

All that and shirts too. :D


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NeverWinsRaces

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say there is no raise pre, 4 to the flop and you are in the small blind and flop second pair. do you lead into the field or do you check the action. say someone bets when you check, do you call and see the turn or do you raise? i know a lot of this is dependent on board texture and opponents. And do yo lead everytime or do you vary your play style by checking?
 
dj11

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say there is no raise pre, 4 to the flop and you are in the small blind and flop second pair. do you lead into the field or do you check the action. say someone bets when you check, do you call and see the turn or do you raise? i know a lot of this is dependent on board texture and opponents. And do yo lead everytime or do you vary your play style by checking?

In that exact scenario, bet 1/2 the pot and see what happens. At least 2 of those 4 limpers will fold (most of the time), often everyone will fold. You know the feeling, you don't like the flop, and will do anything to fold, force fold even. Well, everyone finds themselves in that situation.. Give em a reason to fold.
 
flatcaller

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yeah that will be texture type play. depends on flop say i have 89 and flop is 28T yeah ill prob bet more compared to hc qj and flop 9 J A. I think a bet works best though cause your risking such a small amount to potentially win. same play happens 3 time youll most likely take down one of the pots. But try to bet the flops you raise rather than limp pots cause your opponents can have anything especially if you don't raise

Also are we talking tournament or cash?
 
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JusSumguy

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In that exact scenario, bet 1/2 the pot and see what happens. At least 2 of those 4 limpers will fold (most of the time), often everyone will fold. You know the feeling, you don't like the flop, and will do anything to fold, force fold even. Well, everyone finds themselves in that situation.. Give em a reason to fold.

"Build your opponent a golden bridge to retreat across." ~Scipio

"To a surrounded enemy, you must leave a way of escape." ~Sun Tzu


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Always give your enemy a safe exit. ~The Art of War.
 
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well i guess tournaments because thats what ive been playing lately. But would the type of game really matter? I think betting is good because it also adds more agrresion to your game. i dont know much about fold equity but i think that a bet means you have fold equity? who knows. a bet just seems like a good play.
 
Arjonius

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I don't mean to be harsh, so I hope you won't take my reply that way. If you're a good hand reader, why are you asking this question? If you're able to put the opponents on ranges pretty accurately, then you can asses how well or poorly the flop fits said ranges. Then, it would seem you ought to have at lest a fair idea when your second pair is likely to be good (so you should bet) as well as when a bet will tend to fold out better holdings (so you should bet).
 
flatcaller

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well i guess tournaments because thats what ive been playing lately. But would the type of game really matter? I think betting is good because it also adds more agrresion to your game. i dont know much about fold equity but i think that a bet means you have fold equity? who knows. a bet just seems like a good play.

yeah like $1/2 game you get 5 limpers i would not bet $5 into $10, anyone with anything will call. same idea if it is early stage of tournament ill be more inclined to make pot size bet cause ppl are way looser when it is cheap, they don't pay attention to %
 
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NeverWinsRaces

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I don't mean to be harsh, so I hope you won't take my reply that way. If you're a good hand reader, why are you asking this question? If you're able to put the opponents on ranges pretty accurately, then you can asses how well or poorly the flop fits said ranges. Then, it would seem you ought to have at lest a fair idea when your second pair is likely to be good (so you should bet) as well as when a bet will tend to fold out better holdings (so you should bet).
Im asking the question because i want to know how other people think and do in this situation. I know also know that situations vary and my readinIg ability will not be spot on 100% of the time. I feel though sometimes i miss some value by checking it down. Sorry if i sound dumb.:confused:
 
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