Large tourneys versus SNGs - collusion likelihood

Mainly played AP for the past few years. My cash results are very bad on SNGs. If I had just played large tourneys, I'd be cash positive. Heads-up SNGs I do about 50/50. Anybody else in this boat? Any ideas why? Is it the ease of cheating on SNGs having easy player collusion? Maybe unpredictable behaviour is more effective in large tourneys? Any thoughts?

welcome skate. Obviously it is much easier to collude on smaller tournaments, I.E SNG's. Unless they are sure they will be on same final or final few tables it is almost impossible to collude in the larger tourneys. Just my two cents

You aren't good at SNG's and HU play. SNG's are way different than MTT's. I find it amusing that you think you can't beat SNG's due to cheating. Is cheating really that widespread?

Is the thought that cheating in SNGs is easy and widespread based on anything other than you losing at them?

Thanks for the welcome Isaac!

Do you know if the online sites take any steps to stop collusion? Any better than others? I like SNGs because they only take about an hour. Those big tourneys are like a part time job

Mainly the fact people at work say 3-4 of them get together and play in collusion. Plus the whole fraternity phenom. Also, I don't deny I lose at them so there are probably factors due to me

On a bigger site like Fulltilt or Pokerstars I really wouldn't be concerned about it (& if you do spot collusion the sites are prompt to take action).

On a smaller site (ipoker) where you have to wait 10mins. for a single table sng to fill up, I guess there'd be oppurtunity but I kinda doubt it happens much at all (I think it'd be more common on cash tables tbh).

If you prefer playing SNG's (STT) I'd strongly suggest reading Collin Moshmann's SNG Strategy book. I think it'd for sure make you a winning player in the micros anyways. It's a great book to build a decent foundation from.
Lots of good articles online.... but lots of 'mis-information' too.

How do you know?

You mean your co-workers collude, or they assert or suspect that 3 or 4 players that they don't know collude? I don't get this 'fraternity' concept.

I too, would probably be less concerned on a big site, especially if playing NLHE, cuz they get tons of traffic. On a smallish site, like Carbon, playing cash Omaha H/L, who knows how many Romanians will walk in? Maybe that's what the OP meant by 'fraternity'. But honestly, I've noticed that while the freerolls are heavily populated by the Eastern Bloc, the cash games are not.

Now, I have no idea the extent of collusion anywhere. But I'd think it would easy to do. Anyone can set up a venue that a poker site cannot trace. Yahoo chat, Skype, phone. And while they would be able to confirm incidences of the same players frequenting the same table, you probably won't spot collusion if it's done right (no chatting at the tables, no 'wtf' showdowns). Again, one can only guess the extent of it, but I'll bet far more goes on than they will ever catch or even notice.

I assume he's up over however many MTTs he has played.

Clearly the assumption is still flawed because well, sample sizes.

OP it's more likely that you're not a good MTT player either and are just running hot over your probably small sample of MTTs than it is that you are a good MTT player and SNG player but have been repeatedly screwed into negative ROI by colluders in SNGs.

I don't mean this insultingly, it's just that collusion isn't as huge a problem as you think it is, especially if you're playing lower limits. You're losing money at SNGs either because (a) you're running bad or more likely (b) you're not a winning player. Focus on the flaws in your game as opposed to just blaming bad results on possible collusion/bots/doomswitches and you'll be amazed at how quickly you stop crying collusion.

I second the Moshman book. If you are playing on the big sites, collusion is unlikely, esp at lower stakes where they wouldn't be making much money.

I'd invoke Occam's Razor: Is it more likely that collusion is occurring often, or that I don't play correctly in SnGs?

At the big sites, the chances you consistently sitting down with colluders is tiny.

HU sngs, HU sngs, u wont have to worry about that nonsense. lolololol

I think the part about the large tourneys being a relatively small sample size of my playing experience is correct. I'll check out the books, thanks.

Maybe it's also a factor of playing longer in big tourneys. Maybe it takes a while to get into it, versus a short SNG.

skate.. seriously.. pick up the book Collin Moshamann's SNG Strategy. It'll change the way look at SNG play & I "GUARANTEE" you'll come away from the experience as a winning player (incidentally, I was a break-even player.. after reading that book (& some other stuff) my ROI went up drastically.. your's will too).

It's spelled Moshmann tho . Thanks!

No, it's actually spelled Moshman. Thanks for playing.

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Many reputable sites take firm actions against collusion. I can't imagine it being that hard to detect it, and once being "reviewed" for collusion, it would be very easy to prove guilty by reviewing hand history and looking for mysterious playing patterns.

If you're afraid of collusion, you should try playing at the bigger sites like PokerStars or Full Tilt. If you still feel unsafe, make a mental note of who you play with and if keep running to the same group again and again consider reporting it although you could just be playing with regulars. Even with regulars, it's still highly unlikely to be playing with the same group over and over again. I hope this advice helps. : )

there is a place where 12 or so players hang out together and they all have lap tops and they are all playing i wonder how many places like that there are?

College frats, boiler-rooms in foreign countries, teams of computer programmers pop to mind.