John Juanda: Full Tilt Sponsored Pro & Apparent Online Poker Tool

A site for the durrrr challenge quoted John Juanda with the follow regarding him not taking on Tom Dwan for his challenge...

"All of these online kids spend 15 hours a day playing online on five or six tables ... They are thinking poker all of the time ... I can’t even play two tables; I have a hard time playing one. When I play online, I get distracted by phone calls, instant messages, and television. I’ll be watching TV at the same time, I’ll be eating, and I’ll be talking to my assistant..."

That really gives you a fantastic insight into the mindset of a notable and successful "old school casino poker pro" for online poker. I'm kinda shocked to say the least. If he thinks we're "playing 5 or even 6 tables" at once, lol, wtf would he say about BW 24-tabling? I think his nose might fall off from pure shock.

I also love his personal auto-biography depicting himself as an apparent tool at an online poker table, only able to play 1 table at a time (keep in mind we're talking about a WSOP bracelet PRO not some novice to poker), and his laundry list of enjoyable distractions. Next time you see Juanda at your table, he's probably eating a sandwich while talking to his assistant about the Lakers game they are watching at the same time.

i don't really get how this makes him a tool.

i mean my dad could probably only play one table of online poker at a time but he's still a pretty cool guy.

anyway, back to the topic at hand, it's probably very difficult for a lot of the old-school pros who have decades of experience playing maybe 20 hands/hour to adapt to online poker at all. c'est la vie.

i dont think he was calling him a tool, really..

lol well if I was calling Juanda a "tool" he would just slap me in the face with his $5,000,000+ live winnings or many bracelets. That's why i put in the "apparent" in there, but I was kinda surprised he said as much considering he's a sponsored pro and spokesperson for Full Tilt Poker./

Did he just admit to collusion with his assistant?

I'm willing to give the reigning WSOPE ME Champ a pass here. Not everyone is suited to play durrrr in the challenge. Heck, Juanda was not even a part of "The Corporation" who played against Andy Beal years ago.

I don't even recall him being apart of the regular Bellagio Big Game crew. Maybe he dips in from time to time, but most of the regs are Doyle, Ivey, Antonius, Hansen, and Lindgren.

live pros =/= online pros

Horses for courses etc.

What does it really matter to Durr how or where someone else plays ?

He's not talkign about low stakes grinders though, but the high stakes players. And i doubt that anybody plays more than 5-6 tables at high stakes.

Galfond 12 tables 5K when no nosebleed games are running sometimes

This is such a funny statement, i like John Juando a great player. How can you judge somebody off of online, who made online the standard? Most online players are donk anyway and playing multilple tables is no testitmate to greatness. I think you guys need to go back and find out what real poker is all about, certainly its not playing five tables online.

id be willing to put money on the fact that many online pros are in fact much better than live players

i dont really see how playing online makes it different then "real poker"

It's a generation gap for the most part, that's what most people don't consider. Juanda is a professional at the game. He can say whatever he wants. He is the game of poker.

Some years down the line, the online pros who play mostly online can brag about how playing live is so ancient and out of touch with real poker mentality. But that can't happen till at least a good 20 years. Nobody knows where the game is going. Nobody knows whether playing live or online best suits the game in general. Give it a good 20-25 years to see where this whole poker boom ends up.

Online Poker is not for everyone.

John has shown that where he gains his advantage is through making live reads. Online consists of players who are tracking stats via poker tracker with pokerstove, and a calculator handy. Players are able to calculate a wide array of percentage angles, and make mathematical reads based on a players stats. Multi-tabling is tough if you are not able to gain stats.

Live poker is almost distraction free. When you are at the table, whether you are in a casino, house, or boat your table is secluded. Playing online is about working from a home location dealing with your personal issues as they arise.

I'm sure if the guy did not have money in front of him it would be a lot easier too. I mean family, friends, and for his sake employees are all around him making his brain succeptible to information that has no benefit on the poker table causing him to loose information at the table. T.V.'s dont help either until you are playing super tight or just taking peeks.

Conclusion.

John J was not bread for online play. He has enough money, skill, and luck in live poker to continue doing what he is doing, and enjoy his life. Can't blame the guy for not having the desire to play online which completely requires a whole new set of skills in order to compete.

It doesn't surprise me to hear this, as I'm sure there are tons of your favorites that cannot play multiple tables online at their live buy in value.

I wouldn't mind seeing Jerry Chan try to run 9 tables, say thank you in all the chat boxes, and reraise with junk only to find miracle cards on T/R's in a long term sample size. Let alone challenge the Durr. That's what I call a fish out of water.

Anyways...off to Multi.

*Decides to state the obvious*

Live has more tells, no HUD, no multitabling and you've gotta protect yourself from angle shooters.

Does being able to multitable make an online player "better" than a live player who can read when his opponents are strong or weak? No, it just means they're good at their chosen games. You may as well claim that hold 'em players are the best in the world, because hold 'em is a better game than stud or something - it's all just a bit silly.

As for Juanda's comments - I dunno, I really don't see the problem. All it says is he's smart enough not to play a game where he knows he's -EV. Probably the same reason he's not a regular in the Big Game too.

And I think his comment is actually expressing a fair bit of respect for those who can concentrate for that long on multiple tables and come away a winner.

Well once upon a time, "Real poker" was Limit Hold'Em.

Poker is going to continually evolve as people learn new things live or online that are affective and make them lots of money. Then they'll sell those secrets in a book or online video site so the rest of people can begin playing like them until they move onto the next big thing.

i like john J, and i wouldn't critisize him. online poker isn't for everyone and i would love to have had his accomplishments.
how do you think the online player would hold up in a real casino game.

i can give you an idea;
first of all because they can only play one table at a time, they will play more hands then normal. can almost garrantee this, since they'll be bored to death. this will be thier downfall, they can't just hope to get lucky.

they'll play as though opp has the same skill level. and it won't be true. because of the vast amount of online players you'll have more lesser skilled players. and you can't play the same in a brick and mortar as you can online.

this is just my feelings, my opinion.

maybe john likes to put more thought into his play and not take the game so lightly. busy man is what it sounds like.
peace

well i mean i know of course their are differences their just variations of the same game, one isnt more real then the other is basically what im saying

Even Daniel Negreanu will only play 1 table online, with NO exceptions. Some guy called "2easy" who plays at Pokerstars recently banged the drum that DN couldn't beat the 10-20NL game there. So DN said he would play that level to prove the guy wrong etc but the time frame and amount of hands to be played couldn't get sorted out to a suitable conclusion so nothing came of it.
But, all through the negotiations DN would not budge on insisting that he would, and does, only play 1 table at a time. As it turns out, DN just challenged the guy to a HU match at 25/50nl instead and took the guy for 6K over 350 hands.

take away the online players poker stats (holdem managaer, poker stove etc) and all the other information that u can get online n i bet they'd b crap.

online poker has such an edge over live bcos half the stuff is done 4 ya n it's so much faster that u have to make judments quicker than live.

id love to see online poker ban all stats then see how it copes. lol

What casino's have you played in?? Obviously ones with pot ugly dealers and no annoying slot's or some crap band playing in the background lol

The casino's i've been in have been full of distractions in the form of beautiful women out with their rich gambler husbands, some equally beautiful dealers and then the general annoyances of the slots behind your table or w/e

Plus all the flashing lights, the waitresses wanting to know who wants drinks (except when you want one - then Murphy's Law dictates they're nowhere to be seen), the three guys at the table who just won't shut up, the floor guy wanting to know if you wanna leave your table and play in some super-satellite tournament instead, the TV screens showing all the different sports channels, the guy in the one seat trying to chat the dealer up and the fight that's breaking out at the next table.

I'm not making this up, BTW - that's all from the last casino cash game session I played.

None of the high stakes online players use HUDS...

So if everyone has the same information available it gives them all an advantage... You know any kind of poker is overall -EV right(rake)?

If you think live players are better then "online" players you are sorely mistaken. It all depends who you consider live players though. We mostly only see tourny play so its difficult to compare. Ivey and PA play way more online but you probably contest they are live? Watch HSP and see how people think Dwan is. I am not saying see how much he won on it (a lot btw) since its 1 or 2 sessions are way to short term, but pretty much the consensus is he is way better then them.

i like how john juanda is an old school pro...if everyone in the poker community played online poker more than live poker, it just wouldn't be the same.

hopefully there will still be a lot of players who are old school like john juanda in the coming years instead of more good players coming from the internet felt instead of the actual felt.

the information is available for anyone so therefore no one has a reason not to have it

also these "numbers" dont tell you what to do, its up to you to interpret them and act on them appropriately, if you dont know what they mean you cant do that

I agree. Multitable grinders are just boring, formulaic bots IMHO. Of course you make money. But booorrriiiinnnnggggggg.... not poker. Take all yr 24 table buyins and go 1 50K buyin with Juanda and the crew. That is poker.
Am I in trouble yet Sean?

Once upon a time there was no such thing as HE, limit or no. Kids! Sheeessshh...

Poker will evolve, but those that know and can play the spirit and history of the game will thrive all the way. There are fundamentals that online HE kids will never get...

What does HE mean?

This statement is a little thin. While there are different distractions on the internet, there are still distractions live and you need to be disciplined. The game on TV, alcohol, cocktail waitresses, etc. are all distractions live.

I only play 1 table at a time, but sometimes I play 2 tables. It it to hard to focus on a tourney if you are playing at to many tables, and it gets especially hard if you have to make a tough decision. I agree with John Juanda that you should only play 1 table at a time.

I am a believer in 1 table max at a time. Old school methods with a 20 year old. The tool comment makes no sense btw

It stands for hold 'em.

As for people saying it's too hard to concentrate on multiple tables at the same time and that you "shouldn't" play more than one, IceMonkey made the point in his original post: there are players (winning players, no less) on this site who play 12 or more tables at a time. It's obviously not too hard for them to concentrate, and telling them they "shouldn't" be doing it when all they're doing is winning money at a faster rate is just silly.

Juanda certainly has the knowlege and skill to become a great multitable online pro if he wanted to, but it's a big change from live. He's found his niche and may simply not see the need to learn a new game.

As for whether multitabling is better - it's all about doing whatever gives you the better overall payout. Your profit per hand might be a bit lower but $/hour is higher so it's all good. If $/hour is lower, you need to play fewer tables or change your strategy.

I completely agree.....u can't tell anyone to play less tables...or more tables...everyone has their comfort level...some people play on 30 tables others only manage to play on 5-6 tables...but are still capable of getting bigger profits