Ivey mucks the winning hand - checked to the river!

#1 28th October 2009, 8:05 PM

I guess he forgot he had a spade!........

@7:20 into the video

YouTube - WSOP 2009 E27 4/5 Main Event Day 8 World Series of Poker 2009

#2 28th October 2009, 8:13 PM

Saw that last night on ESPN,,, made me feel better to know even the great players make mistakes,,, does the look on his face right after he mucked say he realized it just then?
Take care

#3 28th October 2009, 8:16 PM

Was waiting for someone to post this video.. Was on chat with some folks last night when we seen this.. That was nuts.. I was like did he just muck his cards? Wowsers

#4 28th October 2009, 8:42 PM

yea i saw this last night on tv as well..i was like wtf..really?..and the pot was like 2.5 million chips...mistake on his part

#5 28th October 2009, 9:05 PM

DanielBreckner (Observer): phil u mucked the best hand in the main event
DanielBreckner (Observer): haha
DanielBreckner (Observer): really sick
DanielBreckner (Observer): u saw that?
Phil Ivey: thx daniel
Phil Ivey: lol

#6 28th October 2009, 9:36 PM

Couldn't believe it when he didnt bet the river, then he mucked his hand after it went check-check -

Im sure there will be plenty of ribbing going on this week after it was aired lol

#7 28th October 2009, 11:09 PM

Ouch....perhaps this is the kind of situation he wanted to avoid/why he rejected ESPN when they wanted to make his table the featured table early on in the tournament (ruining everyone else's chance to play on tv for one session in their life).....this hand will definitely get scrutinized for a long time

#8 29th October 2009, 3:58 AM

Ouch and this coming after ESPN is trying to help poker along by putting the best on the cover in the middle of football season, the best does something like this. Not helping poker. lol

#9 29th October 2009, 5:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deadly Silent

Ouch and this coming after ESPN is trying to help poker along by putting the best on the cover in the middle of football season, the best does something like this. Not helping poker. lol

It's not hurting poker, either. Saying Ivey is not helping poker because he made a mistake is like saying Peyton Manning isn't helping football because he made a fumble.

This shows even the best pros in poker can make an amateur mistake.... and he still made the final table.

#10 29th October 2009, 9:00 AM

To err is human. I guess that means Phil Ivey is human after all. And all this time I thought he was some super human poker player. He is still my hero!

#11 29th October 2009, 9:08 AM

nahh hes still a super human poker player in my eyes lol...i would much rather watch ivey sitting at a table saying absolutely nothing ..than i would to watch mike "the mouth" matosow say 200 words per minute

#12 29th October 2009, 4:16 PM

i mucked a straight in 1/3 limit live once after playing 10 hours cause i saw my opponents 2 face cards and thought he had a higher straight ...
-a horrible feeling as i realized it as my cards hit the table..
- but the worst part was the other player wanted to see my cards......and the dealer turned them up even though they hit some other mucked cards...and the whole table got to see my mistake...

#13 29th October 2009, 4:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pfb8888

i mucked a straight in 1/3 limit live once after playing 10 hours cause i saw my opponents 2 face cards and thought he had a higher straight ...
-a horrible feeling as i realized it as my cards hit the table..
- but the worst part was the other player wanted to see my cards......and the dealer turned them up even though they hit some other mucked cards...and the whole table got to see my mistake...

If the player that "won" the pot wanted to see your cards, and the dealer flipped them over, you should have been awarded that pot!!!!!!!

When a players asks to see cards, if it was the player you were betting against the cards are live, if it was anyone else at the table, the cards are dead.

#14 29th October 2009, 5:14 PM

Quote:

When a players asks to see cards, if it was the player you were betting against the cards are live, if it was anyone else at the table, the cards are dead.

Is this really true? What if the cards touch other mucked cards?

I always like to learn the nitty gritty rules. You never know when they might come in handy at the table!

-Dave

#15 5th November 2009, 11:13 AM

Its interesting that this was discussed in the latest inside deal and it was concluded that it won't have much effect on Phil. And the truth is that even great players make mistakes. It is all about how you deal with them.

Heck, I made one mistake yesterday that could have cost me the final table (loosing half of my huge stack before the bubble with a not so great all-in raise), but was I concentrating on my mistake? No, I was trying to look for other opportunities to make up for what was lost and I was cocentrating on how to play that hand better in the future.

So I'm sure that Phil will adjust a bit and might try to look at his cards before he folds, but I find it interesting that this hand has caught so much controversy.

#16 5th November 2009, 11:32 AM

Interesting hand. Everybody makes mistakes. I think shortly after he mucked he realized what he would have won the pot.
I still consider Ivey in the top5 pros. It was just a mistake.

#17 5th November 2009, 1:08 PM

that seriously upset me when i saw that... that was a pretty big pot that got mucked and threw away for no reason.. i guess you really do got to show no matter what.. you never know when u got the best hand..

#18 9th November 2009, 3:35 PM

I'm sorry but if you're supposedly the best player in the world, playing for the biggest crown in the world - at that stage of the event - a mistake like that is inexcusable.

#19 9th November 2009, 3:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasanova King

I'm sorry but if you're supposedly the best player in the world, playing for the biggest crown in the world - at that stage of the event - a mistake like that is inexcusable.

So if Tiger Woods was in a sudden death playoff for the Masters' championship and he sliced into the rough right off of the tee, then that would be inexcusable to you as well? Or if the best QB in the NFL throws an incomplete pass while playing the worst team in the league, that would be inexcusable? Last time I checked they were all human and humans are not perfect. So where does a goofy perspective like anything less than perfect is inexcusable come from. To expect absolute perfection in all situtations all the time from anyone (including those considered to be some of the best at what they do), is just ridiculous. LOL

#20 9th November 2009, 3:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasanova King

I'm sorry but if you're supposedly the best player in the world, playing for the biggest crown in the world - at that stage of the event - a mistake like that is inexcusable.

After all those hours of play, a mistake is excusable, happened to me to on-line before I knew there was something like a 4 coloured deck.

#21 9th November 2009, 4:01 PM

Proves he`s human, everyone screwes up now & then,, buck

#22 9th November 2009, 4:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZZFLOP

After all those hours of play, a mistake is excusable, happened to me to on-line before I knew there was something like a 4 coloured deck.

No, I respectfully disagree. I've played for over 30 hours straight before - LIVE - not online and I can assure you I never mucked a flush. If I see myself getting weary or tired, then I just start to turn over my cards - winning or losing hands. (Unless it was a complete bluff). Even in a situation like that - say he is tired - couldn't he just shove his ego aside and take a look at his cards before mucking???

#23 9th November 2009, 4:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZZFLOP

a mistake is excusable,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasanova King

No, I respectfully disagree.

LOL Having an expectation of absolute perfection from anyone in anything ever is absurd.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Daniels

So if Tiger Woods was in a sudden death playoff for the Masters' championship and he sliced into the rough right off of the tee, then that would be inexcusable to you as well? Or if the best QB in the NFL throws an incomplete pass while playing the worst team in the league, that would be inexcusable?

??

#24 9th November 2009, 5:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Daniels

LOL Having an expectation of absolute perfection from anyone in anything ever is absurd.

??

You're comparing apples to oranges. Tiger Woods missing a shot would be comparable to Ivey making a bad play or even a bad call, etc. NOT him mucking a winning hand because he forgot what suit he was holding. Ivey mucking that hand would be comparable to Tiger Woods shooting for the 18th hole while he still was on the 17th hole. SOMETHING THAT TIGER WOULD NEVER DO.

#25 9th November 2009, 5:22 PM

I think you missed the point (again).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Daniels

Having an expectation of absolute perfection from anyone in anything ever is absurd.

The simple fact is that people (including Phil Ivey) make mistakes. Like it or not, you can't debate it...no one is perfect.

#26 10th November 2009, 2:19 PM

Mistake or no mistake, excusable or inexcusable, Ivey is the mother "bleep" man

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=4620789

#27 10th November 2009, 8:22 PM

Hahahahahahahahahha, PRICELESSSSSSSSSSSSSSS...

I mean, I've done that before, and felt stupid as hell, but then again, I'm not a WORLD PRO

#28 11th November 2009, 8:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Daniels

I think you missed the point (again).

The simple fact is that people (including Phil Ivey) make mistakes. Like it or not, you can't debate it...no one is perfect.

Sure they do but I think you are missing my point (again). No one expects Phil Ivey to be perfect - of course he makes mistakes - but something like that is beyond a mistake, it's borderline incompetent.

#29 12th November 2009, 3:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasanova King

Sure they do but I think you are missing my point (again). No one expects Phil Ivey to be perfect - of course he makes mistakes - but something like that is beyond a mistake, it's borderline incompetent.

LOL...if you think someone (even a pro) forgetting they had one card of a particular suit is borderline incompetent, then you clearly know nothing about the brain functions of the majority of human beings that don't have an eidetic memory.

Definition of "mistake" - First line: a wrong action attributable to bad judgment or ignorance or inattention;

Oh, I suppose the other possible answer in all of this is that you've chosen to take such a ridiculous contrary stance simply for the sake of arguing and inflating your post count. I doubt (for the most part) that that's the case, but if we're randomly going to latch onto silly claims then this one fits right in with the same type of rationale.

#30 12th November 2009, 5:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Daniels

LOL...if you think someone (even a pro) forgetting they had one card of a particular suit is borderline incompetent, then you clearly know nothing about the brain functions of the majority of human beings that don't have an eidetic memory.

Definition of "mistake" - First line: a wrong action attributable to bad judgment or ignorance or inattention;

Oh, I suppose the other possible answer in all of this is that you've chosen to take such a ridiculous contrary stance simply for the sake of arguing and inflating your post count. I doubt (for the most part) that that's the case, but if we're randomly going to latch onto silly claims then this one fits right in with the same type of rationale.

Sure, the definition of mistake is a wrong action attributable to bad judgment or ignorance or inattention but that's NOT what most people consider a mistake in poker. A mistake in poker would be making a bad play, making a bad call, over betting, misreading an opponent, etc. Forgetting one's hole cards when you have the nuts and not bothering to take a look at them before you fold is beyond any reasonable mistake in poker -yes, it's borderline incompetent - and if it was anyone other than Phil Ivey that did that we would be laughing at them, calling them a fish and saying they shouldn't be playing poker.

And comparing my responses to your posts to someone that's doing it for post counts is laughable. I'm the one with 25 or so posts - you're the one with thousands - who do you think post count matters to??? :lol:

#31 12th November 2009, 6:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasanova King

Sure, the definition of mistake is a wrong action attributable to bad judgment or ignorance or inattention but that's NOT what most people consider a mistake in poker. A mistake in poker would be making a bad play, making a bad call, over betting, misreading an opponent, etc.

I think most people would say that it is a HUGE MISTAKE to forget your hole cards and/or failing to check them then muck like he did. His mucking was very "bad judgment" and directly attributable to his "ignorance" of what his hole cards were and/or to his "inattention" to what the board was or when looking at his cards. Seems to me that what happened in this case fits perfectly into the actual definition of mistake. You don't get to short cut or modify/tailor the definition to exclude the items you can't address as part of your stance. I'd agree with the items you noted as being mistakes in poker specifically, but the definition doesn't stop there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasanova King

and if it was anyone other than Phil Ivey that did that we would be laughing at them, calling them a fish and saying they shouldn't be playing poker.

I'd laugh at anyone including Phil Ivey. I think it was an incredibly stupid thing to do as well. But speak for yourself about the playing poker; I want people like that at my table.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasanova King

And comparing my responses to your posts to someone that's doing it for post counts is laughable. I'm the one with 25 or so posts - you're the one with thousands - who do you think post count matters to??? :lol:

Good, you actually got my point. Assuming my claim was actually absurd and one with which you vehemently disagree with, if I would now continue to argue it by modifying definitions and making other random claims then maybe you can actually see how that would look from the a rational perspective.

Oh, and on a side note, we actually do get a lot of noobs that come in spamming their post counts with complete crap in hopes of getting to 65 posts so they can try to get into our freerolls. We not only delete crap postings on a regular basis but we have also had to actually ban members for repeated crap postings that wouldn't heed a warning or infraction. So while it might not be true in your case (and I wasn't actually accusing you since I haven't reviewed your posting history yet ), it is actually a very real issue that we need to deal with.

#32 13th November 2009, 4:37 AM

I liked the segment ESPN did with Ivey for their final table where he said he kept rewinding it cuz he was sure "they made a mistake"... LOL.

#33 13th November 2009, 6:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Daniels

I think most people would say that it is a HUGE MISTAKE to forget your hole cards and/or failing to check them then muck like he did. His mucking was very "bad judgment" and directly attributable to his "ignorance" of what his hole cards were and/or to his "inattention" to what the board was or when looking at his cards. Seems to me that what happened in this case fits perfectly into the actual definition of mistake. You don't get to short cut or modify/tailor the definition to exclude the items you can't address as part of your stance. I'd agree with the items you noted as being mistakes in poker specifically, but the definition doesn't stop there.

I'd laugh at anyone including Phil Ivey. I think it was an incredibly stupid thing to do as well. But speak for yourself about the playing poker; I want people like that at my table.

Good, you actually got my point. Assuming my claim was actually absurd and one with which you vehemently disagree with, if I would now continue to argue it by modifying definitions and making other random claims then maybe you can actually see how that would look from the a rational perspective.

Oh, and on a side note, we actually do get a lot of noobs that come in spamming their post counts with complete crap in hopes of getting to 65 posts so they can try to get into our freerolls. We not only delete crap postings on a regular basis but we have also had to actually ban members for repeated crap postings that wouldn't heed a warning or infraction. So while it might not be true in your case (and I wasn't actually accusing you since I haven't reviewed your posting history yet ), it is actually a very real issue that we need to deal with.

Looks like we somewhat see each others points, lol....it's as close as we're going to get anyway....lol. I still believe that "mistake" and certain other ones combined to cost Ivey the tournament. Because of those mistakes, Ivey, IMO, did not deserve to win the tournament.

#34 13th November 2009, 9:24 PM

Ivey made one mistake, beyond that he is a self made millionare. You can make a big deal out of this if you want, but in reality it doesn't matter. He is still better then any of us will ever be.

#35 27th November 2009, 11:00 AM

That only goes to show you- even the best can screw up hard. Take that to heart when you bust out of your 0.10 Sit N Go

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