I Know It's Been Whispered Before But Durrrr Broke?

If anything the kid is on a bad swing and it looks like his luck is starting to run out. I'm not knocking the guy because he's a solid player, but it was only a matter of time before his aggressive raise anything with anything style caught up to him. Down 3.5 Million already in 2009!!! That is brutal and I'm sure he has lost atleast 30% of his bankroll in that run. What do you guys think? Now probably isn't a good time for that Durrrr challenge, lol.

Just goes to show you, no one is invincible in the world of poker. It's a game where you have to be at your very best all day every day.

4mil isnt busting durrrr, still robusto

Like I've said before, this kid is all hype. Everyone jumped on his bandwagon because he was doing well. But I said from the beginning, lets see where he's at in a few years.

Hope he builds his roll back up and understands that even If you're a pro, you still need to follow BRM.

how do u know that he isnt following proper brm? r u his accountant?

because brian knows the kid is all hype....

Put the 3.5 million losses into perspective, he won that much in like 3 months last year, so its not like hes even close to broke

not including stakes and live games where he could have won a lot more.

I love all the people who come to his rescue. You can't say anything negative about this guy without someone turning it around on you.

No, I'm not his accountant. But the proof is out there. He plays more online then live games, every pro has said hes not a good live player. Even watching him play Ivey HU in Omaha he was felted a few times and re buyed in the game for about $48,000 when he was sitting on 6 figures most of the night.

I don't know what his count is in his BR, but I'm sure he can borrow. I think people need to focus on players that have been around a bit and let others like Dwan play and stop hyping him. Dwan already has an ego, all the people hyping this kid will just hurt him. He's not that great (from what I've seen) he's an avg. internet kid who had a good streak. Sorry to be honest about it but I'm not one for jumping on the bandwagon of someone who did well in a short period of time.

I respect his game, I respect what he's done but I can't put him over pros who've been doing it for awhile. I know hes young, but lets see how he does in a few more years.

fwiw, grinding from 50nl up to 100knl in 3 years =/= 'doing well in a short period of time'

umm no.

In other news, he's on the list of top winners on tableratings today.

fwiw, he has probably played more hands than 98% of all live pros, so this arguement that he hasnt been around long enuff, holds no ground

also, the big live pros will never tell a bad player that he is bad

Didnt he start at 10NL?

It was just two weeks ago that Durr lost a much publicized $1 million poker challenge to Patrik Antonius.
The online forums were buzzing as Durrr sat down to face Patrik Antonius in a Pot Limit Omaha $500-$1000 match on Full Tilt Poker, thinking it was the beginning of Durrr's Challenege. However, it was not part of the challenge so it was just a preliminary match up between the online poker behemoths. When it was all said and done, Antonius walked away with over $1 million, $875,0000 of which from Durrr's account.

Well I think if he doesn't have at least $20M in his roll, there might be an argument for it.


Won $3.5M in 3 months versus lost $3.5M in 2 weeks is a world of difference.

Hardly "In the long run" terminology.

To be fair though, I guess he is experiencing his biggest downswing to date. It will be interesting to see how he copes with it.

You're right. Here's the long run: http://www.pokertableratings.com/overview/durrrr

I didn't bother taking a look at the link because I'm pretty sure it is impressive reading.
I'm insure what it proves about tomorrow, next week, next month, next year and onwards though.

So let me get your logic straight:

1. We shouldn't look at today, that's short-term
2. We shouldn't look at his long-term past results for the last few months, that's not the future
3. we SHOULD look at the last few weeks because those are bad and obviously not the past or short-term

Anything else I'm missing?

wtf posting that antonius won 9 buyins off durr means absolutely nothing. In omaha, someone who doesnt know the rules can win 10 buyins off a pro, that means nothing. Also it was a play till someone wins a million freezeout, so it was 50/50 (not really since antonius is better) that either antonius or durr would have won a ton of money off the other

this made me lol

just a bunch of haters imo
why hate, appreciate

we still all wish we had/have/will be able to, do what durr has in his short poker career

Unfortunately you have not got my logic whatsoever, let alone getting it straight. You also appear to have put words in my mouth.
The bulk of my post suggested that considering his poker career is still in progress and not yet over ( that I am aware of ) it would be normal to conclude that there is more to come, one way or the other.

Who said we shouldn't look at today? I know I didn't.
Who said we shouldn't look at his "long term" past results for the "last few months"? ( bit of a contradiction in "long term" and "last few months")
Nope, once again, not me.
Who said that we should look at the last few weeks because those are bad and obviously not the past or short term? Yep, you guessed it, not me.

I have no problem having a decent debate about whatever but please don't put words in my mouth, thx. I thought my post was very simple to understand when I illustrated that because he isn't done yet, the results of his supremacy/downfall are inconclusive. That, is my logic. Sorry if it shocks you.

Looking at his profile in the link above, I saw that his most profitable hand was 44. >$300000 in one hand. A-Mazing.

I certainly appreciate. I don't hate. I think what Tom Dwan has done is awesomely amazing.
While I admire his achievements I don't view them wearing rose tinted glasses. No hate in that.

It made me lol too. But for the opposite reasons to yours.

Sorry I guess you didn't say the other things, but Brian did. Sorry for putting words in your mouth, you just had that last post so I quoted it. So I pose the question to Brian. Why does the last few weeks mean more than the last year? Why does it also mean more than today? There's both a more recent short term AND longer term span where he crushes (7.14 PTBB/100 even after the downswing. Anyone here even beating 50nl for that much?)

I think that about settles it.

Great site btw. I didn't know about this one.

You're graph is looking a bit downswung on the other hand Zach! What's up?

so durrrr, the best online player ever (cept prahlad i guess, but that was like 3 years ago) is going to go busto soon because this "3 million dollar swing" is going to lead to him selling all of his assets, always playing for 100% of his own action, playing with no edge, and playing on tilt, and eventually losing all his money, despite the anguished cries of his many friends and family members who support him, telling him to stop. kool story hansel.

sngs on some random site....its on some interview with him on youtube somewhere..

I said those things? Interesting. I never said the last weeks mean more. I didn't say anything means more today. So get your facts straight AGAIN please because your love for Dwan is blinding you from what people are ACTUALLY saying.

Let me make this clear so you don't mess up again.

I respect the kid. I think he has done a lot to add more interest in poker. I think he has bit off more then he can chew with these challenges. His ego is getting in the way along with people thinking he's God. Have you ever watched one of his sessions? Watched some of his plays? You can put all the numbers out there but he's more of a luckbox then anything else. So you can pull stats out and show everything he's done since the beginning but right now he's on a losing streak and his luck has run out...for now. Will he come back from this "losing streak"? More then likely. But until he's around for a few years and has done more then win side games, I'll say he's an average player with a lot of hype. Is that wrong? Would we be having this dispute If I was talking about Phil G or Ziig? I don't think so, people don't care about them, they ignore what David B has been doing online and focus on guys with "hype". The stereotypical "internet poker" player. The person everyone wants to be, the kid whos fresh outta prom and living the dream. That's great, but don't tell me he's one of the best in the world or that he's even in the top 10.

Now, we can agree to disagree. But understand what I'm saying and don't let your love blind you.

Thanks.

Currently active poker players online or otherwise, micro stakes or nosebleed, winning or losing, are still a work in progress are they not.
I would of thought we can clearly agree that Doyle Brunson for instance will end his poker career as a big time winning player.
The obvious reason for thinking/knowing that would be because it wouldn't surprise any of us if Doyle's last act on this earth was raising a pot. So we can conclude he will retire ahead of the way by a big margin.

There are other long time very successful pro poker players out there that we can pretty much conclude will end their days big winners from the game, but of course we don't know for sure.
There are also well known players out there who we might think to ourselves "Hmm, I'm not sure this guy is going to keep his past winnings if he carries on like this".

Some very successful players up to this point are in their infancy so far as their poker career's go assuming they will still be around doing what they do in 5, 10, 20 years.
Can we assume they will remain successful? for what it's worth, I don't think we can. No more so than they themselves can.
If we could all predict the future, there would be no future. Current success can give us a sort of indication as to where a players future might be going but nothing is a given.

If you play poker right to the end, you know, until you die, and there are stats available to measure your success or failure, I guess only then we can see how your whole poker life went.
That would be your end result I guess. If perhaps you dropped out of the poker world at some point in your life and never went back, that too would give us the end result of your win/loss.

But one thing none of us can do is know the end result while we still play the game. The likes of Doyle Brunson aside that is.
Some players are more open to destruction than others. Some will always want to be at the highest end of where the action is.
I guess those types are more open to going bust than the more placid types who happily go about their business somewhat under the radar.

It's not over till it's over, and when it is over, that to me will be the time when the count begins.

That's not completely true. A lot of the big name pros have other things besides poker and don't need to play anymore. Doyle is one person who doesnt need to play poker as much as he used too. I'm sure he'll play those big tourneys and of course the big game and High Stakes Poker on GSN, but he's not hurting for money. He's made good investments and has done well in his career.

People don't need to die and get judged, there's only one person that does that and that's the big guy upstairs. Besides him, you can see how a person has done over the past 10-20 years and see what they've done in their career. How good were they, how bad. Take sports for instance. You can't tell now who the good players are and the bad?

I think after about 5 years and some WSOPs under his belt, we'll get a better idea how good Dwan is. Don't get me wrong, you don't need just WSOPs to be considered a great player but it helps a lot.

One other thing I wanted to mention. There's a show on NowLive.com, it's a online radio show. Mike The Mouths Brother, Scott hosts the show and talks about pretty much anything. He's not a poker player, he does play here and there but its not his living. I spoke to him about Dwan and he told me a few things about him and how badly he sucks live. If you doubt it, I'll let you know when the next show is on and you can ask him yourself. That's one persons opinion, but I'm sure because it's "The Mouths" Brother people don't care. People also don't care how Phil Helmuth puts him down more then anyone he's ever played against. But he's "The Brat" so most people don't care.

Ever heard the term short term luck is king,long run skill is key?
Cause even thou this is a massive downswing he is on,its still a downswing.
I agree with one thing thou,that HU challenge is probably just some ego trip.
But he is still the online pokers highes earner,he has probably played more hands then even the great Doyle Brunson,so what more does he have to do before he is just a luckbox(witch btw is a insane statment)?

Hell i dont even percive durrrr as a likable person form his numerous tv apperances but calling him a luck box,and saying lets wait and see is just stupid imo.

And for the kicker.

Durrr´s profits from 4/1/08 7,2M(including his downswing,and he has been playing the noise bleed a lot longer then a year) 7,2/100
Zigs profits from 4/1/08 -980K(yeah thats minus at the noise bleeds in the last year) -3,8/100
David B profits from 4/1/08 1,5M 2,05/100
OMGclayaken profits form 4/1/08 3M 7,86/100

according to that site he is up on Patrik over a million.

Yes I do occaisionally watch Railhaven.
umm what?
When Albert Pujols goes 0-4 one game do people all of a sudden question if all the HRs and hits were just luck and his good streak's done? He has years of positive results and then 2 weeks he slumps and you're ready to say he was just a luckbox the entire time?
Side games take more skill, and pay more money, than the tourneys do. And lol at average player. He's beating the highest games on the internet for a higher winrate than you have at whatever stakes you're playing.


Well other than Ziig, who is actually a losing player according to the online databases, the other two are both amazing and I would say you were full of shit if you called them average players too. Phil Galfond is the player Dwan exempted from the challenge. Obviously he has a ton of respect for him and so does pretty much everyone. David B is also a phenomenal poker player. If you throw in Ivey you probably have the top few online players period.
What ranking system do you use that has him not in the top 10? He's got an edge playing at basically the higihest stakes game that runs on the internet. He's sometimes sitting with 5 other people that are probably in the top 10. Granted he takes some from people like Laliberte, but he is literally CRUSHING the biggest game that runs. Again, I doubt you beat 50nl for that winrate. I know I'm not winning at that rate and I'm not playing some of the best players online.
lol it's not love. Like I said I'd defend people like Benyamine, Ivey, Galfond, etc. They all are amazing players and it's not like durrrr just came on the scene last month. He's been around for awhile and he even mentioned on PAD about a 2M downswing he had before. The guy knows that it's possible to lose but he also over the long run has shown to be able to crush the game. To call him average is like calling Michael Jordan average because he only scored 10 points one game when his team lost.

Just like I said before, watch him play for awhile. When I watched him play he put his money in with the worst and just called off a lot of money to Ivey. (This is this week too.)

As for the David B statement, I didnt say David was better. I'm talking about how he's been running now. People are high on Dwan for running good and being up, why not talk about David running good or Ziig?

More hands then Doyle? Who cares. There was no internet then. Can you imagine If Barry Sanders played back in the 50s? He would've had 9345893453 yards rushing. lol These are different times now, so seeing more hands then someone who's basically "The God of the Game" doesn't hold much weight.

Dwan on TV wasn't much. He sucked out on Phil in the HU Challenge then acted like a child (not a 19-20 year old whatever he was at the time) who said over and over "play me heads up...play me heads up." He's trying to hard to get there and with his ego and everyone whos hyping him up doesnt help.

Remember a kid named Stu Ungar?

To Brian, I'm talking strictly poker winnings/losses. I didn't include outside stuff.
But if a player plays with money earned outside of direct table poker earnings, fair enough.
Though I would measure it on what he came with, and what he left with.

EDIT: Oh and for the record, I'm not into the guy upstairs too much .