How many people make a living from poker?

How many people would you estimate worldwide make enough money to live on from poker?
My own opinion would be that you need to be able to make about $20,000 a year at least to live from.
I guess pokers so big now that you don't need to really be at the top of the game to be making plenty of money, and there must be tons of players online who can make $2000 a month without too much troubl, so there must be many thousands of pros.

It obviously varies based on country/city you live in but most places in the US 20k/year would probably put you below the poverty line.

This.
If u live in the US or western Europe making 20k just isnt gonna be nearly enough for food,rent,car,utilitys and having some sort of live imo.

If we're truly talking minimums here, a single person can live off $20k in most places and that might be enough if you're just starting off. That $20k would have to be after a steady growth in bankroll, however - you'd want an ever-growing buffer to allow for variance, moving up in stakes, trying new games you might not win at first, travel, etc.

If you have a family that number would be pretty tough to handle.

Hmmmmmm.

I'm sure there are alot of online pros out there.

However, I believe you would have to work and play poker for quite a while to stabilise first.

You don't want to be playing under pressure, so it is important that you are comfortable before you start making a living out of it.

If you live by yourself, you can survive on about 15k if you live smart.

Yeah ok thats probably true but atleast for me to ever consider going pro i would need to be making like 50K a year and have a 150bi BR+ like a 20k rainy day acount.
Simply cause if you dont allow your self a nice buffer zone or u will be ****ed when u hit a litle varience and drop 20bi or w/e and start playing horrible cause your worrying how u will pay rent, food ect if this downswing doesnt stop soon and basicly give up on all small edges witch is suicide seeing how small edges is the decitar in your winrate.

But hey that just me and since im never turning pro its all a mute point .

Loads of people earn less than $20,000 a year, as low as $15,000 working full time in crappy unskilled jobs like in supermarkets, data entry etc, so I don't see why thats unreasonable as a minimum amount to start out on.

Cause thouse people wages are guranteed(well as guranteed as it gets in this economy with lay offs all over), poker players dont have that luxery of knowing how much the will make in one year.
Poker is a long term game and one year isnt long term.
A one month downswing might change a players 20k year into a 15K year, hence u need a bigger financial buffer zone then a supermarket worker.

You have to also factor in that you have NO benefits at all playing poker. So to make only $20k a year playing poker, you would be better off working for $15K full time and getting health insurance, etc.

Plus it is not worth the stress of poker for only $20K a year.

Costs:

medical expenses/insurance are a few thousand/year, you can probably get a cheap place for ~5k/year renting, couple hundred for food/month = another ~5k/year for food (obviously possible for this to be more if you eat out a lot or possibly less if you eat just mass-produced stuff but even $15/day = $5/meal is like 5.5k for the year). Then figure taxes, although I guess at that point you're not paying too much.

So that's like 15k just covering rent/food/health costs. Then if you also drive there's car insurance, gas, car payments if you don't already own it, and most people like to spend money on fun. So is it possible to squeak by and survive on 20k/year? Sure probably. Also like I said I've heard of people living in somewhere like Thailand and money going a long way and basically living like a king on ~2k/month. So it's all relative, but if you plan on living in a good area in the US you'd basically be living in poverty.

And on the point about some people making as low as 15k/year in unskilled labor no offense but most people good enough to play poker for a living are also intelligent enough to get a normal job for a bit more than 15k/year.

Health care wouldnt be a issue if your living in/move to a country with universial health care but then again taxes would be higher....

Yeah my estimates were basically for the US. Also on that note it depends what kind of coverage you need. I have a plan that basically doesn't provide much for everyday visits and stuff mainly just for emergencies (ie I have a heart attack at age 20 and require surgery that costs me 5 million dollars) so it's a lot cheaper (however the routine checkups cost me more obv) while like I know my parents have a plan where it's $20 and insurance covers the rest for routine checkups at dentist/doctor/eye doctor/etc and I'm sure they pay more annually for it. Anyway this is kinda off topic I was just trying to show that in the US at least 20k/year will not get you too far although you are right it is possible to survive on it.

You also have to go off of specific places. Cost of living here in Santa Fe is really high. 40K will barely let you keep your ground with rent, utils, bills, and cup ramen.

If you are making $15-20k per year playing poker, why quit your regular job? That would be a heck of a increase in your bankroll !!!!! Do that for a few years...THEN go pro. Having an extra $1-2k/month extra, on top of your regular salary would give most of us quite a bit of breathing room.

I don't see a point in being a 'professional' poker player when you are eating Top Ramen every night.

Try living in Liverpool in England mate. Theres no jobs anywhere. I am unemployed despite having a degree in Maths I still can't find a job.

There are tax advantages to playing poker for a living!!!

In the UK its not taxable.

In the USA its taxable, but very easy for someone to think of ways around that (no legal, but very easy to do)

Is this reality?

I know wage differences exist between the USA and the UK...

but

When I talk to youngsters here about jobs etc... they quote salaries that often make me double-take, especially when I know the going rate in a particular field. Most students here seem to think they will start out on a 30K job.. the reality is a 14K job. Education is not what it used to be. There was a time when a university degree meant you could walk into pretty much any job and command a higher salary simply because of your education. It seems these days there are so many students that this is no longer the case.

I know of entry level skilled workers earning 25% less than unskilled manual workers, and it will be a number of years before the skilled person's wage rises above the unskilled.

Not to argue with you--but Im not sure where you have lived in the US....But I go to Albuquerque and Santa Fe pretty often and it is one of the cheapest areas in the country.

Rent for a 1 bedroom Apt can easily be found for $500's and up in Santa Fe. That is better than any truely livable area in Tucson AZ (easily get 400's in Tucson if you dont mind gunshots and rampant crime every night )

If you are thinking expensive try LA SF (just about anywhere in CA) NYC, etc where rents are hard to find at $1K for a one bedroom!!!!

I would certainly recommend (if asked) that a new guy trying out as a pro move out to Santa Fe as a base (since it is beautiful country) and play poker out of Sandia Poker Room in Albuquerque. Yeah it is a drive, but worth it, and you can grind out a comfortable living before moving to LA (or a more expensive area to live and play poker). Of course living in Albuquerque proper would work also and you can find some places a little cheaper.

Albuquerque is also a good base to travel to other cites to play poker like Vegas, Los Angeles, Phoenix and extended trips to Tunica. FWIW I rank Sandia as one of the top few places to play poker in the entire US.

Oh man I just graduated and have applied for one position in Albuquerque. Now I'm feeling all kinds of giddy about the possibilities.

EDIT: The poker possibilities that is. I know all about the cost of living, which is a big reason it's on my list of places to move to from California.

Stu makes a good point about students getting jobs. College is painfully expensive and EVERYBODY is going. I think it is important to have that education, but it's getting very difficult for students to pay back those huge loans they end up leaving school with.

Now let's take those huge loans and give them $10k less per year to live on. They still have to pay back the huge sums they borrowed to pay for school, but they have $10k less to live on.

College is an investment. Unfortunately the return on that investment is getting worse and worse. I know kids who have graduated only to not be able to find work. So it's a pretty tough investment.

As far as living on $20k/year... don't. You don't want to do that. If you want to go pro strive for maximum bankroll separation and bank as much in living costs as you can before you go. If going pro ever entered my mind, I would want at least $20k for living expenses for 6 months and like $15k in the roll.

My guess to the original question of how many poker "pros" are making a fairly comfortable above "poverty family level" liveing JUST playing poker that play online or in casinos and other underground cash games world wide would be about %20 to %25..and maybe half or less of that are doing consistantly better than a couple hundered thousand a year ..I believe the majority are like a Rock 'n Roll bar band .... makeing just enough to squeek by,have some fun and get to the next gig and occasionally makeing a good score. I'm just barely good enough to make a few cashouts for " BBQ supplies ".....wink~wink~nudge~nudge....LOL....so the pro life is still a long way off.

"How many people would you estimate worldwide make enough money to live on from poker?"


% of people
1% at best.

Pros
If one would consider themselves a Pro then I would have to say the percentage would be 80% of the Pros make enough money to live on.

If not then they should not consider themselves a Pro.
A Pro should be making a minimum of $50K a year.
If not then I would put him in another category.


Good Luck

play $2.00 s&g's 6 tables 5 hrs. a day 5 days a week for 1 yr. If you can't make over 20k then stay at the supermarket.

If you start out making $20,000 a year then the hope would be that you can make a lot more than that before too long, which is not unrealistic if you're capable of making that much already and devote all your time to it.
To the guy who said its not worth the effort for $20,000 a year, I'd rather play poker all day than work in a supermarket all day for the same amount of money anyway.

You math doesn't work, not even close. Let's say each game take 1 hour to play, you are only playing 60 games a day @ $2 is $120 in buyins - times 5 days is $600 a week x 52 weeks is $31,200 in just buy ins.

If your ROI is godlike at 50%, your only making $15,600.00

lol I'm glad you did that math because there is no way I would do that! I was interested to see what that came out too. That 50% ROI is what I like to call IMPOSSIBLE to maintain for a year! lol

Actually, I'm glad you posted it that way. IT made me figure out what it would be, now I can use those numbers to see if even a part time income is possible and at what stakes I would need to play, etc...

Almost hate to chime in but here goes.

I got the axe at my JOB about 2 months ago. I had a poker only bankroll of 1k.
I have 3 casinos here in Tulsa with mostly 1/2nl 2/5 nl as well as plo games and holdem limit games. I only play no limit so I started out on the 1/2 tables with a max buyin that just got moved to 300.
The increase of buy in puts alot of money on the table, thus more money for me. At first I was very carful and would get up from the table when I hit 500 and call it a day.

So I decided to play 10 hour shifts and this has helped, I had my best day so far taking 900 profit.

So far I am averaging 600-800 a week and my roll is movng up. That is about 36k a year just playing 1/2. I would think this is the minimum you would need to make to get buy.

Online cash games are so tight it makes it hard to grind out a buck, but live there are players who come in with a goal of not loosing more than 200. Think about it.

The easy part is making $20k/year. The hard part is surviving on that kind of money. It's about the cost of the rent for my appartement.

Anyway, if you're bad enough that you can only earn $20k per year and still want to live from it, the obvious solution is to relocate to south east Asia. Much lower cost of living, nice beaches and your office hours are about when drunk Americans are playing late at night.

this is pretty much accurate. im moving out of home and stuff so yeah, expenses are a bitch

When you think about it there is alot of players, even a couple of my friends brag how they make that much. but can they win that much every month. that's the difference. guess i'll just keep working.

To start earning 20K a year you need at least 20k start bankroll to play with...my nr1 dream is to become pro poker player but that can only happend if I win lottery like 2-3 millions dollars,then I can start playin poker and leve out of it...until that happends Im keeping my day job

I don't play for a living yet, but poker is a nice supplement to my income. Right now I only play $1/$2 and I average $1000 a month right now. Once I build up my bankroll a bit I will start dabbling in higher stakes ($2/$5) and will see how my performance is in that game. Once I can do $5k/mo in winnings I think I will be leaving my day job. It will probably take me at least 2 more years to get to that level and the necessary bankroll, though.

I highly doubt this. Also note that if you're working in a supermarket all day you can take sick days or just be sort of out of it and as long as it's not a habit you won't lose your job and will still get the same pay. If you play a session of poker when you're out of it you cost yourself money. If you take a sick day you make no money. For every hour of playing poker it's probably equivalent to the effort/concentration of 3-4 hours at any other job at least assuming you're multitabling. Also you have to factor in study/hand review and stuff like that. Bottom line playing for a living isn't all it's cracked up to be. Not that it's all bad, the freedom/not having a boss/being able to play when you want is definitely a good thing, but a lot of people seem to have unrealistic expectations of what it's like. I'm playing for a living this year but unless I'm up a lot higher than I am now and making closer to a million a year there's no way I'd want to play it full time long-term. Much better to just keep playing it for extra money on top of a normal job.