How long do you give a site before you think it's rigged?

I posted on another thread i'd lost 3 SnG's when I had 7 chances to win when all in (was between 68% and 92% favourite in the 7 - 2 of them over 90%).

This is from number 8 - i'd won the first match of a 4 player $10 H2H, this was for $40 (much needed after the last 3 games). I'd totally dominated until then - he hopelessly overbet when he hit a hand, and called pretty much everything;


pokerstars Game #5412997136: Tournament #27322011, $10.00+$0.50 Hold'em No Limit - Match Round II, Level I (20/40) - 2006/06/30 - 16:31:01 (ET)
Table '27322011 1' 2-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: TangoCP (1980 in chips)
Seat 2: robwhufc (4020 in chips)
TangoCP: posts small blind 20
robwhufc: posts big blind 40
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to robwhufc [Tc 8c]
TangoCP: calls 20
robwhufc: checks
*** FLOP *** [9d 7c 3c]
robwhufc: checks
TangoCP: bets 80
robwhufc: calls 80
*** TURN *** [9d 7c 3c] [2c]
robwhufc: checks
TangoCP: bets 920
robwhufc: raises 2980 to 3900 and is all-in
TangoCP: calls 940 and is all-in
*** RIVER *** [9d 7c 3c 2c] [9c]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
robwhufc: shows [Tc 8c] (a flush, Ten high)
TangoCP: shows [9h 7h] (a full house, Nines full of Sevens)
TangoCP collected 3960 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 3960 | Rake 0
Board [9d 7c 3c 2c 9c]
Seat 1: TangoCP (button) (small blind) showed [9h 7h] and won (3960) with a full house, Nines full of Sevens
Seat 2: robwhufc (big blind) showed [Tc 8c] and lost with a flush, Ten high

90% favourite.

using conservative estimates of 60% for the 5 beats i didn't run through, and 90% for the 3 i did, odds of losing all 8 are 97,500/1 - the actual odds i'm sure will be higher still. This isn't the first time this has happened on Stars either!

Has anyone else noticed a "bounce back" bias on H2H games? - more than one opponent has mentioned it to me when i've done it - i see it really much too often to be a blip.

Grumble over - Friday night games on Stars only from now on!

sux for you..


generally i log into a site sit at a table and think it's rigged

well, i play at stars exclusivly, and have found it to be 'rigged' in my favor just as often as it is against me. That is to say, i think it evens out, and personally i've found most sites to be the same in this way, so ultimatly, since i'm a tournament player, there's no place i'd rather be then stars, but that's just me i suppose

-n

Feel your pain rob, I really do. After my post about how my higher pocket pairs would always get beat by lower pairs that hit trips, it knocked me out of my NEXT 2 SIT N GOES. One of them was three-handed, pushed all-in with 88, called with 77 and a shiny 7 hit the flop. The next one wasn't actually against a pocket pair but it was sickening. I held QQ and the flop was T 7 2, end up all-in against a JT, blank on turn, T on river.

Something I noticed on one line... *** TURN *** [9d 7c 3c] 3♣

Uh, it says 3 of clubs twice. How'd that happen? RIGGED DECK

Rigged. . .You ever notice the program taking a slight pause before dealing the river...? Now that's weird shitz...

I try to avoid the "R" word, but I believe in faulty randomness. I sometimes play 2 tables at a few sites (incl. Stars) and I notice, more often than rarely, I get the same valued hand (different suits mostly) on both tables. Also, both flops could have 2 same cards, different suits.

I especially think Stars is about 5 years obsolete in their software as a whole.

combuboom said:

Something I noticed on one line... *** TURN *** [9d 7c 3c] 3♣

Uh, it says 3 of clubs twice. How'd that happen? RIGGED DECK

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Uh- i just cut and pasted it - how wierd!

I have never played at poker stars but I do wonder sometimes if sites are rigged also. But I think I win just as much as I lose. Although I have had some hands that got beat by this or that and it makes you think... no way! Well I wish you the best of luck on your games in the future.
Have a Good Weekend & A Happy 4th!
-gts3475

MrSticker said:

I sometimes play 2 tables at a few sites (incl. Stars) and I notice, more often than rarely, I get the same valued hand (different suits mostly) on both tables. Also, both flops could have 2 same cards, different suits.

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I haven't noticed it so much on stars but the site where i often play on 2 tables (CDPoker) i have noticed this as well and it does happen quite a bit which can be very distracting - lol

IanT

I just had to make one more comment on this subject.

i think it's important to remember that we all play a lot, thousands upon thousands of hands. and when you play that much, you're bound to see some crazy stuff. there aren't many things, and none that come to mind, that i haven't seen happen on the poker table. No matter how remote the odds, they still have to happen eventually. As i like to remind myself every time i take a bad beat; In order to be a 3:1 favorite, you have to lose 25% of the time. Rob mentioned odds of something like 95,000:1, well, there still has to be that one time when it happens. It sucks if it works out against you, but it still has to happen, otherwise there would be no odds, it would be a guarentee, 100%. It seems like many of us think that that whenever we have the statistical advantage, it means there's no way we can loose, but odds in our favor only mean we'll win more often then we'll loose in such a situation, not that we'll win everytime. They're relevant more in the long term then the short. That's just the way math works. Just because something is improbable, doesn't mean it's impossible.

-n

I just signed up for PS and must admit I do enjoy it there

I don`t play Pokerstars so can`t comment directly, but there are subtle differences between one poker room and another in the nature of the random number generation. Not "fixed" exactly, but not totally random either.

The one that most stands out to me is Victor Chandler (part of the Tribeca network and therefore essentially the same as Doyles Room and some others). Here I am positive that flushes and straights are more common than on other sites. If the board shows a flush or straight possibility, one of the players will have it almost every time.

The answer to it is, having identified the site`s quirks, adjust your play accordingly. At VC, I routinely fold trips when there is a possible flush/straight, knowing that I am likely beat. I will also play more drawing hands, since they are more likely to hit.

I know another site where the deal is more "dull" than usual and lots of hands are won with Ace High because big hands are less common. Answer - I relax my starting requirements.

just got stuck out in 10th/461 in a tournament on stars, it got to the stage that i predicted 3 river cards in a row that would hit no joke. As it happens all 3 where one from only two cards that could possibly lose me the hand. I don,t know why this has to happen on stars but it goes on all the time. I agree egon that i have folded hands on stars that i would maybe have moved all in against someone i,m sure is chasing the straight or flush.

You can't slow play there - try taking a risk checking a set with 2 diamonds on board, you could put your mortgage on the turn being a diamond.

Nomination for Dumbest Thread of 2006.

Seconded.

Thirded

robwhufc your avatar freaks me out

Fish and Beriac - do you play Head to Head at Pokerstars?

Fish said:

Nomination for Dumbest Thread of 2006.

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Hush your mouth! That's the reigning King Member of the Month who started this thread. Such sacrilege! :adore: :adore: :adore:

robwhufc said:

Fish and Beriac - do you play Head to Head at Pokerstars?

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Can't speak for Fish, but I have been known to on occasion.

i do love playing at stars, had money there about 2 weeks ago and blew all away but all in all it is all relative, yes the bounceback seems to be there but as is on all sites its just tough when its in big spots like you had, it seems stars lets you win for a while and then will crush you with a bad beat that makes you go broke.

one other thing maybe you should try forgetting about thsoe crazy fn odds you display, WHY WOULD YOU LOOK THAT INDEPTH! that is rediculous maybe your thinking too hard about the game and forgetting the rules lol

JJPHENOM said:

i do love playing at stars, had money there about 2 weeks ago and blew all away but all in all it is all relative, yes the bounceback seems to be there but as is on all sites its just tough when its in big spots like you had, it seems stars lets you win for a while and then will crush you with a bad beat that makes you go broke.

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I humbly submit that "the site" doesn't actually decide when a player will start to win and when he/she will start to lose as if "the site" is a benevolent/malicious/sentient being. It's luck. Numbers. Odds. Statistics. Even with purely random outcomes, you will see streaks. It happens. It doesn't mean that Poker Stars (a large public company) programmed their random number generator to play tricks on people or manipulate them.

I don't see why they should need to rigg a game. Especially in a Sit N Go.
They make so much money there is no need for them to do this...