How the average player can make money in online poker.

I am resisting the overwhelming urge permeating out of every shred of my being to comment on the OP's post.

OK, so we've got to the crux of the matter. In my experience limits DO MATTER. As soon as you go above those limits I mentioned, the money gets serious enough to be quite important and hence better players swim in these waters - whose sole desire is to REALLY and I mean REALLY want to take your money.

At the "safe" limits I mentioned, your "average to fairly good but not THAT good player" can feel more comfortable - and can actually outwit and outplay the "fun", "casual", "clueless" players. Consequently, this is where the REAL money is to be made and where the profits will come in the long run FOR THAT TYPE OF PLAYER. Not much but enough for poker to be a long-term, reasonably fun, leisure activity.

Your "average to fairly good player" is more likely to play badly at those higher limits when the cards are not being kind and where the very good players actually play back at you and force you to make difficult decisions - WHICH JUST DOESN'T HAPPEN THAT MUCH AT THOSE LOWER LIMIT GAMES.

(At the lower limits, "fun", "casual", "bad" players are much more likely to fold to aggression and be easier to read and to play much more passively than your serious, clued-up player.)

THAT is why I believe higher limits should be left well alone by your "average to quite good player."

Now I gotta go to work.

if you are that bad of a player that you feel you can not beat above $25 NL then you really should just stick to CC events and $1 tourneys and $5 and $10 nl. Average to good players should be able to beat up to $1/$2 NL pretty consistantly.

so if the money means soo much at higher limits right? so what is the big difference between $25 NL to $50 NL? why is this money jump so much more? your thinking is just sooo weak! like the other poster said I'm also done here because obviously you are set in you opinion and not changing it.

This advice is idiotic. The way to make money playing poker online is to play shorthanded limit hold em. As someone who made a five figure income from a starting bankroll of $20 last year I can assure you that your advice is just stupid. If a table has a few fish and a few good players on it, you hammer away at the fish and stay away from the sharks unless you have a real hand. End of story

The OP advice is not bad, but I would put into that reality check that the first thing any average player should do is realize that his deposit if for entertainment purposes.

As for comfortable, 'only play at a level you find comfortable', if you don't win then no level is comfortable.

Better to suggest start low and slow and find comfort there, then expand.

1. I am sick of people going on as if online poker is a big, juicy cash-cow that is just waiting to be milked. You are not a bad player if you can beat games up to $25 NL. (I think the majority of online players would be as jealous as hell if you told them that you actually make a profit at online poker at ANY limit.) You are a very good player if you can beat up to $1/$2 consistently in my opinion. I freely admit to not being able to beat the $50 max buy-in tables but I don't think I am "that bad of a player".

2. I've been playing online poker for 1 year now, 3-5 hours on average a day, and I'm speaking from experience - not vast experience but enough to have an opinion. At the low-limit tables (at and below the $25 max buy-ins) other players are just simply easier to read and play against. The moment you step up to the $50 max buy-in I notice a difference in the quality of the opposition.

A few players, but a meaningful few players are able to read YOU. They are able to parry your attack with the right moves and they always seem to know when to re-raise. Players just don't do this at the low-limit tables or, if they do, they do it predictably.

I would rather shut down my computer at the end of a poker session knowing that I am sh1t hot and rule the low-limit tables (winning little but regularly) than playing in the higher limits in denial, refusing to believe that I have been shark food yet again.

Of course!! It's so easy! Let me get this straight: "just play shorthanded limit hold em poker" Gotcha.
Yet another one who believes that any Tom Dick and Harry can make money effortlessly at online poker.

And I can assure you this comment just sounds arrogant in the extreme.
You made a 5-figure BR from a $20 deposit? You got VERY lucky - well done. And because you did it, now everybody else can do it, right?

Easy. Blimey, there IS loads of money to be made at online poker after all!! Now I see the light.

Poker is all about balance. You have to balance your skill level to your bankroll level. As you move up the game changes and if you can't addapt or your bankroll can't support you while you learn then you stay where you are. Money can be made at the micros levels but can also be made in the middle to high stakes games. You don't have to be a genius to play this game. There are subtle things than can improve your profits if you know them or slow you down if you don't.

Every player out there has read the same 5 books so they all play ABC poker for the most part. The trick is learning to fold to strength (even hidden) and raising when you know you are good. You can play ABC poker above $25 max and still make a profit as long as you are selective on when and who to play against.

The problem with micro levels is there is never, NEVER, a fear of losing that money. This will create weak calls and also river rats. You get your money in when it is good most of the time you will come out ahead.

When you move up, it becomes more about tough decisions. There is more money in the pot so of course you will pause and think more. How often do you need to think on a 50c all-in (crap, I lost and now can't buy that candy bar!). At middle levels and above, it is about putting your opponent to hard decisions (fold equity). You have to bet to do it but if you are selective in the hands you play and put alot of pressure on when you hit, eventually they will make mistakes and pay you off.

You can play mico and move up as your bankroll expands. You just have to be able to adapt to the new levels and how they are played. You can make a nice profit just stealing blinds all day on the high limits. You can't do that in micro games.

if you are happy playing $25NL then of course dont change but most of us are not and the players are not that much better at $50NL, some of them are even worse. But dont like to people and tell them that they should never move up past $25nl because they will never make money there. I play $1/$2 live and have had a losing sitting 1 time, my 1st time playing where I lost $100. online I rarley bankroll manage but I believe if I did I would have no problem beating players up to the $2/$4 level. Now im nothing special....good? dont know maybe.

a good player should be able to beat higher then $25nl and if he cant he should either just play $25nl or better yet find something better to do with his time.


all this talk of how good the players are at $50nl tempted me to go download bymasters instructional video to tag play at $50 NL, lets see how good they are shall we?

all this talk of not being able to beat low limits has really gotten to me.


so what I decided to do was do about a 5-6 video tutorial on beating low limits which most concider $25NL to $100NL and I will play at $25NL and explain basic concepts I take for granted that a lot might have trouble grasping still.

you are going to have to give me around a month to get $500 over on full tilt, I have to many pressing matters at home to throw that much online right now but in about a month I should have some money laying around that I should be able to put on. Maybe I can get admin to sticky it for a month or so till the whole series is finished.

with this I will be playing very tight profitable TAG style play. I got this idea from the cardrunners video series that is basically the same thing. I just hope to show players that playing a tight aggressive style you should be able to beat limits up to $1/$2 nl pretty easy. I would do the $50NL but that would take about another month to get 1k on and dont want to wait around for that.

I'm only talking about shorthanded limit hold em here, not NL. Some important points to beating the games. From the micros up to lower middle limits.

1. You have to play tightly. Just because the game is shorthanded this does not mean you can raise UTG with K8. You have to understand pre-flop concepts- not just memorize starting hand charts. An example would be a tight solid player raises UTG in a 6 handed game. You are next to act with AT off suit. You fold. You are very likely dominated by AK-AJ or a high pocket pair. You probably have in the neighborhood of 3 outs. Now, reverse the situation, a maniac who is raising 40%+ of his hands in the same position makes the same open raise. Now you 3 bet and try to isolate him. You are going to showdown unless it comes down really bad. Over time, getting your money in with better hands than your opponents will show a profit. Calling raises with A7 will drain your bankroll. A very important point in short handed limit hold em is to NEVER OPEN LIMP. If you are going to play pre-flop then raise. This is the most important thing to remember about short handed poker.

2. If a hand is worth calling it is worth betting or raising. If you can't play your hand aggressively then don't play. You must play aggressively particularly when the pot is heads up or 3 handed. Multi way you just can't make too many moves because someone has a hand but you can bet and raise strong draws for value. In a 5 way pot with the nut flush draw and overcards for example, just cap it. You are at least 35% to win and are only contributing 20% of the money. You are making money with every additional bet that goes into the pot. Play strong draws like made hands. Don't just check call your draws because by doing that you only have one way to win. If you are applying pressure you can often win pots through sheer aggression but you must pick your spots.

3. Protect your hand always. Top pair top kicker is not a hand you can slowplay, it is vulnerable. Bet and raise to make the draws play. In general if you have a hand bet it. In a way this is more deceptive than trying to trap. For example if you bet straight out when you flop quads, a lot of players will assume you are just trying to steal by representing trips. A lot of them will call you down with A high or worse. Just pound away! When you flop 879 and you are holding something like 87 you must bet and raise immediately. This is not a hand to try and trap people with like some stupid fish will. Any 5, 6, T, J etc probably spells doom and will leave you drawing to a 4 outer. In general I recommend almost NEVER slow playing. You need at least a full house to consider doing this and even then you are probably better off pounding away. Never slow play a hand like AK on a board of JTQ. This is a huge mistake. Highly likely your hand could be counterfeited or even overtaken by a 2 pair hand like JT that fills up on the turn or river.

4. Defend your blinds. Especially your big blind. In short handed games people are constantly raising and attacking your blinds. If you keep folding you are giving up too much. Cut off and button raises in short handed games should not be respected too much. Of course this is player dependent. If a guy is raising for the first time in 50 hands then get out of the way but in general defend your big blind against a steal raise with any connectors 76 or higher, any two suited cards that could make a straight- 73s, 84s, T6s etc, any face card with a kicker of 6 or 7 or higher, any suited face card (maybe not J2 or J3 but definitely J6s or higher), any suited ace, any pair and that should do just about do it. Never defend your blind from an early position raiser with weak aces like A2. If they are suited you should be ok but if an ace flops do not play aggressively, just call down heads up and multi way if there is any serious heat just get out of the way. Remember you are better off defending with something like 98 off suit than something like A3 because both your cards are probably live whereas with the ace, domination is a real concern. From the small blind play tighter and if you are going to defend against a button raise you are better off 3 betting than just calling. Try and get it head up by driving out the big blind. If you just call the big blind is getting 5:1 and is correct to call the raise with almost anything reasonable. If it is folded around to an aggressive small blind who will raise your big blind every time it is heads up then you should defend with almost every hand. You are getting 3:1 and have position on him. Only throw away your absolute worst hands like 72,62 etc.

5. Use your position. Position is one of the most important hold em concepts. Tend to play more hands when your position is good and play very tightly out of position. An example of using your position: It's folded around to the small blind who open limps and you are in the big blind with 83s. You check. Flop comes KT3. The small blind checks- BET! His check usually indicates weakness. If you get check raised then he was trapping but don't always assume the worst. Take down the pots that no one else wants! However don't overdo it. If you start betting every time you are checked to the better players will quickly observe this tendency and start check raising you constantly.

6. Know your players. Carefully observe every players tendencies. Keep note of how many flops they see, whether they are passive or aggressive, how often they raise, how willing they are to defend their blinds, if they tend to cold call raises etc. There are so many things to watch for that they can't all be listed. Who are the guys that bet every flop? Who likes to donk bet and who likes to check raise? Who tries fancy plays like bluff check raises on the turn. Who plays their weak hands and draws aggressively but starts treading on egg shells when he flops a monster? (An aggressive lunatic caps pre-flop and then checks the flop when it comes down AAK- don't fall for this stupid trap, just check along and fold to a bet. He would have been much better off doing what he usually does in this situation which is just betting. He would be more likely to get paid off that way because people just think he's bluffing again). A program like Poker Office is a huge help in achieving accurate reads on players, especially when you are multi tabling.

7. Fold when you know you are beat but do it early and don't make big laydowns on the river. You know when you are beaten but you call down anyway. Stop doing this. A turn check raise from a fish on a board of 773 means he has at least trips. Your AK is no good- give it up. Having said that, never make big laydowns on the river. If you have a reasonable chance to win and you are there then call. There is nothing worse than making a big laydown on the river and seeing that you were actually the winner with your middle pair. Many times I have folded say AQ to a strange donk bet on the river from a guy who has just check called me down assuming he must have at least a weak pair. He has flipped over J6 and I have ripped my hair out. Heads up it doesn't take a big hand to win. It is just as hard for your opponents to make a hand as it is for you. Again though, know your opponent. Every player is different. Know what their bets mean.

8. Make sure you are adequately bankrolled. For shorthanded limit hold em I recommend a minimum of 500 big bets. 1000 is better and probably ideal but I understand some people think that is being too conservative. Understand that 100+bb downswings are very common in this form of poker and if you have a 300bb bankroll you will be dropping limits very soon. Don't panic if you go on a big downer. Just keep playing your A game and things will turn around. You have to believe that.

Anyway, just a few pointers for people who want to try making money playing limit hold em online. Take what you will and disregard the rest!

nice post Adman, didnt read through whole thing but I see where it is going, welcome to forum. +rep.