Hold'em Manager

Put simply, I want 3bet/4bet stats and everything else the new generation of poker trackers offers, and right now PT3 just isn't delivering. I'm still using PT2 because PT3 is so unreliable. I don't trust it. Not only that, but I'm not happy with how much they changed with the new version - I'm all for new features and extra stats, but when you change the things that were in PT2, it messes everything up. I mean if you're a long-term PT2 user who's used to certain features being in a certain place, then they jumble it all up, obviously you're not going to be happy. meh.

Anyways, tried HM's tracker today 12-tabling for more than an hour, and while I'm not %100 satisfied with it, I've bought the program. $80, less than a buyin for me. Hell, I was just fooling around at 50nl while configuring the hud and won nearly 5 buyins, more than enough to cover the cost.

Customer service (namely the activity in their forums) seems significantly worse than PT3's, but a working tracker is all I'm concerned about right now. So I've switched - even if it ends up being a bad decision, I think the $80 is worth it. For anybody considering the program, keep in mind they also offer a cheaper price for lower stakes:

(from Buy Now)

So anyways, enough of my rant. Let this be the custom stats/reports/whatever/general HEM chat thread.

Good job Taylor. Like you I think at this moment in time PT3 sucks so bad. I constantly get crashes when multi tabling. When I have my tables all up and running, then switch the HUD on with the autoimport, holy s***T it tilts the f*** out of me because I get focus stealing/flickering on all my tables for the next 20mins!

Also I feel really let down by them releasing this product before they had ironed out all the problems they still had whilst in beta mode.

So I look forward to your reviews on this as unless PT can pull something out of the bag real soon, I may have to make this transition also.

Have you converted all your hands over from pt to HM?

Does it have a HUD?

I never was a big fan of all the extra programs that can clog up the screen whilst playing but at least PT2 was a useful tool for cash games etc.

PT3 has just taken a step backwards and spoilt things i think.

Ill have a little looky at this

*Poker Office still not worth a look?

Well I need a transfer to FT since they only accept payment via online services I don't use, and player transfers at a few sites that don't include PS, so I've yet to actually own the program. Trial only allows up to 5k hands and so far I only have the 1200 from yesterday.

Yes it definitely has a hud - just about the one reason I'm moving over to HEM. It's a lot easier (and quicker) to customize imo, but it's also a little different, namely in the popup area. You could probably configure it to look exactly the same as PT2/PT3's popup (like a list), but right now it's probably in a better format as a box. If you hover over a certain stat, like vpip for ex, it will show you the vpips by position, how you limp/react to raises, just about everything relating to vpip in various positions.

The one thing I don't like about the hud is that it has a hand review box - it shows who won the last 3 pots, and you can click on any one of the names to get a converted hand history pop up. I guess it's a decent feature, but it takes up a lot of the table, especially for a heavy multitabler, and I'm not sure it's optional. I've posted in their forums but have yet to get a response.

The program's great, but quite different in several ways. I guess once I get the full version and explore it some more I can give a review.

oh, one nice feature it has is something called the 'active players details' tab or something. Basically if you want to know more about a certain guy who's at your table, you look for him in this option, and it gives you a detailed report about his play. Has 5 different tabs including player analysis, pf stats by position, pf cards (everything he's shown down and what he did [3bet/call 3bet/4bet/limp raised etc]), postflop, notes, big hands.

The first tab is pretty cool - it shows his tendencies and how they stack up vs the average of the rest of your db. So it will basically list everything that's significantly higher or lower than the avg, like 3betting or cold calling, or aggression on a certain street etc. Sick stuff.

Anyways I could go on. I'll just save the rest for the review I'll inevitably do.

PO is like a step back from PT2 if you ask me. If you want a tracker, just use PT2

Also don't get me wrong - PT3 will probably be the best on the market, albeit in like 6 months. Right now it's significantly behind HM though.

Wow, I always thought HEM and PO were similar, basically what people got if they couldn't afford PT, and that they were both worse than PT. Just the other day I think it was on Stox that I saw a thread comparing the two and it looked like HEM came out on top by a lot. Now someone I trust is recommending it. Definitely gotta take a look at it, hell I think even with my discount PT3 was gonna be $75. I could use something with those extra features (plus more it seems) for only $5 extra. Downloading as I type this (trial obv)

This also made me laugh:
" 3. A filtering system that you need to see to believe. For example, you want to see hands where you 3bet a button raiser from the blinds and hit top pair weak kicker with a gutshot and you were check raised on the flop? That is done with a few mouse clicks and does not even scratch the surface of the filtering power that is available."

Oh and Chuck to get rid of the table thing just options -> HUD options -> Table Preferences and then change "Number of pots" to none.

Well from what I see of the trial I like it a lot. One thing missing is I can't see a way to get cold call preflop raise in the HUD. The graphical view is really nice in that for example it will graphically show you which hands (had to be shown down obviously) were raised, cold called, 3-bet, etc. Maybe not useful for someone with no more than 100 hands on any given opponent but it should definitely be of value for people who multi-table and run into other multi-tabling regulars where you have several hundred if not 1k+ hands on.

Yeah finally figured that out, thanks Zach.

I couldn't sleep much last night so I've been figuring the program out. If anyone's too lazy to do so themselves, I'm making an overview-type video that'll show you where everything is (different layout etc from PT3).

Overall I don't see how PT3 could 'crush' this program like they claim it will when it's finally finished. They both look like they'll come out as roughly equal to me. The big difference between the two programs is that PT3 will probably have 1823018 times better customer service imo. That, and maybe it will be updated more frequently; regardless of whether or not PT3 works right now, you can't deny that they put in as much work and effort into making it perfect as they can. Anyways I'm happy with HEM. Maybe PT3 will be better in like 5 years, but until now I'll stick with this.

The only problem I see with HEM is from what I read in the forum, you cannot data mine just by opening tables.

I have Hold'em Manager and yes, this feature is basically like cheating. Seriously, it's not even fair if you're playing against someone who doesnt have it.

As far as I'm concerned, Hold'em Manager is everything that PT3 promised to be, tenfold. It is single handedly the greatest improvement a player could make to their game, imo.

If you can think of something that Hold'em Manager doesnt have that you believe should be in the program, just post it in the forums and I can just about guarantee it will be implemented.

Oh and just realized (I think?) that call open = cold call, thought it meant open call, but wouldn't that be limp? Oh well agreed with Chuck, PT support was amazing and from the look of the forums HEM's isn't nearly as good. But in terms of features I actually think HEM seems to have more features than PT3 even if it were perfect. The one thing PT3 had was customizable stats. HEM has more available to choose from but PT3 basically had an infinite amount as if you wanted to create one you could.

Or, run it on a Mac.


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Any problems with the HUD? I've already purchased PT3 but the HUD issues are driving me insane and who knows when the next update will be.

Very rarely it will disappear on me. I play 3000+ hands per day and it happens maybe like 2 times a week or so.

Getting on all the 2nl PS waiting lists lol, let you know how it goes .

open as in open raise, so the % of times they call an open raise.

This is something else that takes some getting used to - some stats are the same as in PT3, but are named differently. meh.

Nope, I 12 tabled for over an hour and it was perfect. I'm sorry to say (I love the guys over at PT), but this is looking a lot better than PT3 to me...

Is the import time comparable to PT3? I guess I'm just going to have to d/l it and try it out.

I think that's the only drawback - HEM runs at 80h/s whereas PT3 runs at 200h/s IIRC.

That really doesn't even matter to me though - if you're only importing your DB once, the import speed won't matter after that. ie when you autoimport during play it'll be just as quick.

Just d/l this. Imported 3k hands. I'll try it later when I do my next sessh. Like the look much better than PT3 fwiw!

Tried 20-tabling with HEM, worked first few minutes then something happened and it just went sooooooo sslllllooooowwwwww and I couldn't do anything. I'm not sure if HEM caused it but I think it was my computer because when I manually killed the HEM process (ctrl+alt+del) it took forever just to repaint my monitor without the HUD stats there.

That's the test for this program for me. How it performs with the HUD when Im 20 tabling, let ya know later!

Meh, I don't know about all the features and stuff but PT3 for me works fairly flawlessly.

I have never had it crash, I have never had anything flicker, nor have I had any other problem that you guys noted. I do have a fairly nice computer though so maybe that is why, or maybe I am just lucky ^^

I don't know if I'll ever use any of this stuff, I mean I prolly would If I could, but other than that I haven't needed it, does anyone think it would help my SNG or MTT game, obv I don't play cash games....

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How many tables you playing Ark?

I have never used any of these available programs. What I am more interested in however, is I have heard many times in many places that peeps who do have improved their game as the programs shows up the "holes" in their own play. As there are many users here is this an accurate statement.?
appreciated.

Yes, for a free check into what they can do I'd advocate importing all the hands you've played online (hopefully at least a few thousand) into PokerTracker version 3, which at the moment is in a free trial. While the HUD is extremely helpful for multi-tabling, just the tracker itself can be used to go over your stats, what you do in different situations, you can use it to review all the big winners, losers, see if you're doing anything wrong in them, are you giving up on too many flops? etc. So even if you don't plan on spending money for it I'd look at the PT3 trial which allows you an infinite number of hands, but only for the next month or so (forget exactly, but it was 60 days from when it came out, which was about a month ago I think).

IMO tracking and analyzing your own play is the single biggest improvement you can make in your game. Using the stats of others during play is also a huge help (especially if you multi table). With these programs you get both.

Chuck, thx very much for doing the vid, you're a star! Just watching it now. Awesome, love the burp halfway thru', lol.

Lol yeah def thanks for that Chuck, I never even used it or saw the program before so it opened my eyes and I can fall back on it if I ever do get it... +1

Usually 4, with a few open of just me railing people.

I'll try and do 16+ for a few hours some time next week and see if PT3 does anything stupid then :P

Watching video now, but the comment about bet raise raise fold you made is right if it's HU, but say it's 3 handed, hero bets, 2 others raise, hero folds, that'd be how I'd interpret that sequence.

Yep PT3 seems to work fine upto 12 tables or so. After that if you play for a while, then it gets buggy as hell imo.

What version of PT3 are you using arkadiy (beta 12, 13, release 2)?

I can't even get 8 tables working consistently well at Tilt.