High Stake Turbo SnGs

#1 23rd May 2008, 6:10 AM

The time I really started to improve my poker game was when I looked at exposed hole cards of the sunday million FT. Everything was smooth sailing from there.

A few times lately, I've taken a peek into the $300-$1000 turbo 9 person SnG tables. The kind of poker they all play is absolutely ludicrous - I don't even know how they call it poker, it seems like the worlds biggest gamble. Every single hand (vast majority in reality) someone shoves all in 2-3k chips on 300-400 blind totals. My question is... WHY? If all they do is shove shove shove, where is the skill? its like oh my, A2? perfect, all in. which is pretty much how they play. more often than not they are called out by another A6. I rarely see anyone 3x raise, even rarer folded to BB, rarer yet, a single limp, anywhere.

#2 23rd May 2008, 9:58 AM

Because they have a deep understanding of ICM, and because at these blind levels, standard raises would very likely be 3-bet all-in, so it's just better to open-shove instead.

It looks a lot like a gamble because it's a high variance game. Doesn't mean the best players don't have a significant +EV.

#3 23rd May 2008, 6:17 PM

interesting, i thought i knew all the poker lingo, but i'd never even heard of ICM before. i read a huge article about it, fun stuff. still, i'm shying away BIG time from turbos ( i used to be a turbo lover ) and moving more towards other stuff, I feel like ICM is more useful in a turbo situation than a regular game, correct? I much prefer to play by knowledge anyway rather than programs.

#4 23rd May 2008, 7:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theskillzdatklls

The time I really started to improve my poker game was when I looked at exposed hole cards of the sunday million FT. Everything was smooth sailing from there.

A few times lately, I've taken a peek into the $300-$1000 turbo 9 person SnG tables. The kind of poker they all play is absolutely ludicrous - I don't even know how they call it poker, it seems like the worlds biggest gamble. Every single hand (vast majority in reality) someone shoves all in 2-3k chips on 300-400 blind totals. My question is... WHY? If all they do is shove shove shove, where is the skill? its like oh my, A2? perfect, all in. which is pretty much how they play. more often than not they are called out by another A6. I rarely see anyone 3x raise, even rarer folded to BB, rarer yet, a single limp, anywhere.

That is the most profitable way to win turbo sit and gos.

#5 24th May 2008, 1:34 AM

As a follow-up question, in lower stakes, $5-$13 as I play, I practically never see this happen. Would a player that would use this strategy @ a lower stake be at a strong advantage?

#6 24th May 2008, 2:42 AM

Good players will do it at lower stakes. The fact is, for turbo games, if you try and raise somebody after you is probably going to 3 bet shove. When you are HU it is even worse because it is almost 100% shove from the SB, and then it is just who gets lucky enough to get a hand good enough to call and who lucks out once both are all in. But you don't really have any other option, since if you fold to shoves and fold your SB soon your stack becomes so small that your opponent basically gets a free flip at knocking you out.

#7 24th May 2008, 3:41 AM

Check this out:

Turbo STT guide

Its really a great guide to playing Turbo S&Gs. Should answer a lot of questions u have.

#8 24th May 2008, 3:59 AM

That is also the reason that I dont play turbos often, lol.

#9 24th May 2008, 6:24 AM

i like gambooling

#10 24th May 2008, 7:38 AM

i played a sit: buy in 1000 dollar , but i lost

#11 24th May 2008, 8:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Badener

i played a sit: buy in 1000 dollar , but i lost

dang losing $1,000 in 30 minutes i can't imagine. i have a nice roll that i worked up for $0 so far (1.9k), but with BRM i only wish i had the capability to enter the $215 weekly FL tournament or something like that.. but $1000 (esp turbo) is outta my comprehension.
better luck next time!

#12 24th May 2008, 4:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Badener

i played a sit: buy in 1000 dollar , but i lost

On Stars? HU or a STT?

#13 24th May 2008, 5:56 PM

Theorem of Blind Stealing in Single Table Tournaments
had never heard of icm either but this seems a good article on it

#14 24th May 2008, 7:49 PM

ICM: Independent Chip Modeling. Had to look it up.

#15 24th May 2008, 8:57 PM

how many CC'ers play SNGs? coz it seems none know about ICM and it is really the most vital part of SNGs.

#16 26th May 2008, 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Munchrs

how many CC'ers play SNGs? coz it seems none know about ICM and it is really the most vital part of SNGs.

I do, and while I don't use ICM calculators or anything, I apply the general concepts to my play.

#17 26th May 2008, 7:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OzExorcist

I do, and while I don't use ICM calculators or anything, I apply the general concepts to my play.

im the same. cant/wont pay for software lol

#18 26th May 2008, 7:45 AM

2nd follow up question: if 9 "pro players" sat down at the office and played their $565 turbo games and booted up their software to go with it - and the software tells them what to do - how do they pull profits?

#19 26th May 2008, 8:58 AM

Pro players don't need ICM software to tell them how to play. They can apply the concept without making the computations.

Besides, push-fold decisions are not entirely based on mathematics. You need to estimate your opponents' pushing and calling ranges properly, which is not entirely trivial.

Anyway, as in all poker games, with equally skilled players around the table, the game is -EV for all players involved and only +EV for the house. As always, if the games are +EV for some pros, than it means there are also high stakes fishes.

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