Help with this - how bad can you be to cash in 3 of 6 WSOP tournaments? (funny post)

A

Atomizer

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Okay, on another non-poker forum I got into the below discussion with a guy who claims to have cashed at three of six wsop events he has played in. Suffice is to say that he doesn't strike me as being the sharpest knife in the drawer and when I called him on the implausibility of his claims given the less than perfect strategery shown in his hand below he got quite irate about it.

I just wanted to ask the forum two questins, and I would aim these at players who have at least a reasonable amount of live experience:

1. Would you agree that this guy's approach to this hand was somewhat, ahem, sub-optimal?

and

2. Would you agree that someone who plays like this is pretty unlikely to have cashed at 3 of the 6 WSOP events he claims to have played in?

and poker huh? I'd love to sit at a table with you for 12 hours, I'm confident you'd be easy money. Trying to say playing poker makes you know something about Intrade? That is hilerious.

I've actually cashed in 3 WSOP events(twice last year and once the year before). I'm not talking about the Main Event or anything, though Phil Hellmuth did knock me out of one of the tournaments I cashed in. I'm not saying that my cashes were huge either though 2011 was a good couple weeks between the 2 cashes and the cash games(if it weren't for one bad night it would have been an AWESOME trip, but hey, I can't kick myself forever for not putting a guy on pocket 3's).

I was just holding my own, sitting with around $370.00 in front of me playing no limit(texas holdem) with low blinds of 2/4(it was the only table open). I wanted to sit at a Omaha table but the limits were pretty high at the tables that were open.

I'm sitting on the button and dealt ace king suited(diamonds) and couple guys limped in ahead of me and I raised to 12 bucks and the small blind folded but the big blind called, as did one of the two guys who limped in. The flop comes up A, 5, 3...with 2 diamonds. Then we had a check and then a bet of $10.00. I just called as did the big blind. The next card was a beautiful card, a King(spades), so now I'm sitting on a nut flush draw and top two pair. The big blind checked again and the better bet $20.00, and I raised to $60.00 and the big blind folded and it looked like the better was gonna fold(he was a better liar than you), but reluctantly called.

The river was 9 of clubs. I didn't get my flush but top two pair looked really good. The better checked, which kind of worried me a bit. The guy had played pretty solid for the couple hours we'd played together and I couldn't put him on 2,4. He didn't seem like the kind of guy who'd call a raise preflop with that hand. I was guessing he had something like pocket jacks or maybe something like K, Q, worrying about my A. I doubted he had pocket A's or K's. Hell, he could have had something like 10, j of diamonds chasing the same flush I was.

I decided to go all in(he had a bigger stack than I did). He just sat there which made me feel pretty good about my hand but he called, and I think he figured I had a pocket a's or k's but couldn't fold his set(i wish he would have). Pocket 3's.

I can't blame him for playing it and I suppose I can't feel too bad about losing either. I've lost more on a hand(and won more) but it really bummed me out for some reason. I pissed away another $150.00 after that. Oh well, you win some and you lose some

I called the guy on some of the above - betting 3 x BB to open with two limpers holding AK, just calling a $10 bet (!) on the turn in a $52 pot, making a donk shove on the river that can hardly ever be called by a weaker hand etc., he of course wasn't impressed.

In case you'd like to see more genius at work he came back with a ton of rationalizations, some of which were even funnier than the above but I'd just like to get your opinion of his likely skill level and whether he really could have cashed in 3 of 6 WSOP events.

Thanks!
 
WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

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Ask his name.
Look him up.
If he cashed you'll find it.
 
C

CaptainKout

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I have never played live tournaments and don't play well in general (not the point), but is his play that strange for a tournament player? It sounds like a terrible play to cash game players but from a tournament stand point, the shove might make at least minor sense. It just sounds like a poor tournament player made a really really bad cash game play. I thought that kinda thing happens to tournament players all the time when they try to play in side games.
 
prepare

prepare

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He might not have done what he said, but ...

But your examples are just standard play of what is "right", the table dynamic means a lot preflop, and while I personal wouldn't 3X with some limpers, If the table is folding to it a lot then its all good.

To me, AK is a great hand, I go a bit crazy with them, other people hate it. The flop call is eh, if you raise it can cost you the potential as some people will just fold as you raised pre flop, a call can be seen as weakness, trapping, which I don't really like, but it can be justified.

The turn was standard, although I am less likely to believe this story, the bettor shouldn't be reluctantly folding, unless he is "hollywooding" (which is stupid) a set is shoving material, especially with his raise pre flop.

In that situation the op is most likely in a +ev situation, the river is pretty big by this point (somewhere from 200 - 250) he only has about that amount, a good value bet is most his stack anyway. Why not increase variance in a +ev situation and go all in?

Still, its not what I would do, but it can be done.

Obviously I am devils advocate, but whatever.

Also, Tournament play is not = to cash play, some really good tournament players suck at the cash game. He could of cashed 3 times, (which is not that hard given the variance and small sample size) and be a donk in cash.
 
G

GWU73

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Some here may disagree but here is my take:
He raised the lmpers to 6 bb pre flop - fairly standard. It forces them to define thier range a little or make an error with bad cards.
Flating the flop -Agains micro players raise-folding may be preferable here, but if he was concerned about the flop lead (small donk bet could be weakness, or intended to provoke a raise), checking works as both pot control and to build the pot. Raising only pushes out hands he wants to continue in the hand. Raising has merit, but what hands can open this flop? Ax, sets, 2p, pair + straight draw (22 or 44), and flush draw. AK + the draw dominates all but the set and possibly 2p. A set or 2p is not folding this flop. From the description though it sounds like he was not being careful, just greedy.
Raising the turn is pretty bad; the bet size would indicate extreme strength (trying to induce a raise) or a draw (less likely) - Flating here is probibally the correct play. Raising 3x is particualrly bad because of the pot size.
River shove is horrible.
If he is cashing at WSOP events, it is luck.
 
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