Gone Broke Again

I know about bankroll management etc but sometimes I just can't control myself after a bad beat I go on tilt so easily. It is easy to say next time I'll try to control myself but actually doing it is another thing. I was doing so good I think I was playing with $7 dollars which is how much money I got back from rakeback. So I was grinding away in $1 - $5 sit and go's and actually made up to 75 dollars and I was like okay maybe i should try to play higher sit and go's so i tried $10 - $20 dollar sit and go's head up and 4 player shoot out after coming in 2nd each time i went tilt and just play like 4 or 5 sit and go's at a time and just went crazy. I was down to my last 2 dollars. Then I won a few sit and go's and got back up to $30 dollars and went up to $5 - $10 dollar sit and go's because I wanted to make my money back. I think that is the reason why i go broke because i try to make back the money i lost. What are some ways to control my habit of going into tilt etc? Now I am getting $5 dollars back from rakeback what can i do this time to prevent myself from tilting and eventually going broke?

Well, your first statement is contradicted by the following statements that you made. You're not the only one out there who is burdened by the need to make up losses by gambling harder. This is a great site for help. I've been reading for years, but just registered recently.

Some advice. When you had $75 on the table, you should have been playing the $2-4 dollar SNG's. It sounded like you were crushing them. You shouldn't have jumped up in level to the $10 until you had about $200-$300.

Grinding online is well, boring, for lack of a better word. You have to think long term goals. If you can grind to $75, then you can grind to $150, then you can grind to $225. It might take awhile, but if you're not using your poker funds to pay your bills, you can take the time you need to grind up.

Never forget that poker should be an enjoyable pastime. Yes, making money is fun, but your end goal should be to attain a level where you can play comfortably and your losses won't effect that large percentage of your bankroll.

Keep grinding.

-wil

Forget about the money (seriously) and instead focus on your game. If you can get yourself to do this.... and are following BRM (of course).. the money will take care of itself. If it isn't, then spend more time working on your game.

I know of some who do the same thing pretty much, but to even more of an extreme... ie. reg. play the $10 STT's, does good in them, then maybe also pulls off a few good finishes in some 45's.. a couple 27-plyr. wins..... then it's off to the $33's to play the turbo regs.,... then the $50's... let's play some $109's now.... oh.. how about some $75 & $165 MTT's.... then busto again.... and again.... and again... etc. etc. etc.
In my opinion it's addiction related (just my opinion). One can read statements in articles/books over & over & over, saying "Even the very best players will go busto if they fail to follow decent BRM".. but for the addict... "No... it'll be different for me".. "it'll be different this time"... "I'll just move up a level and win it back".. etc. etc.

It can be really tough for some to stick to decent BRM.... ie. the level of buyin they're needing to stay at means playing a game that doesn't have them playing their best (too small of buyin so it fails to have them play their A-game... aka.. they don't care about it too much.. ie. $1 big deal...pff). I think >> just forget about the money part if you're playing SNG or MTT NLHE poker. Just focus on playing the best you can,.. ie. I don't know... for some maybe focusing on the money is beneficial? I can't see how it could be tbh.

this is good advice i think next time I won't try to jump up the stakes too fast and play games that suit my bankroll better. Instead of going $10 - $20 sit and go I'll stay at $1 - $2 sit and go's. Luckily I dont have to wait for my full tilt poker rakeback to come through. I still have $30 dollars in pokerstars account I'll try to stay with in my limits.

I think every decent and passionate poker player goes through the same type of swings and many may do that. It's the one's that learn from experience and don't continue to do it that make it.

I actually have the same problem controlling my tilt. It actually caused me to donk off both of my BRs at U.B. & Bodog. It wasn't a lot of my own money (I started the U.B bankroll with $12, built it up to about $80 and the Bodog with about $20 and built it up to close to $100) but it did take a lot of my time - I would say more than 100 hours, combined.

THAT's what I remember now when I go on tilt and start donking around higher limits (b/c that's what you are doing when you play above you're br even though you may not play like a donk, lol). So after a few hands at the higher limits, I'll just say to myself, "It took me 2 weeks to get this far, why am I doing this??"

It has worked well for me thus far. I've had 2 really bad beat days in the past week, lost close to 20% of my BR each day but after I calmed down, went back to my regular limits, through patience & persistence, I was able to recoup all my losses - doing it the right way.

Another thing that helps me a lot is to switch up games from tournaments to cash and vice versa. If I'm doing bad playing cash, I'll play some heads up SnG's and maybe a small buy in mtt. If I start going on tilt playing those, I'll switch back to cash. Has worked pretty well so far - plus, they're a nice change of pace from each other.

P.S. I have no idea why this is in italics, it just started typing this way in the last paragraph. lol

Everyone loses all their money at some point; the greats, usually many times more than once. Sorry to hear it happened to you, but take it as a lesson and learn to control your tilt factor. Use tighter BR management - with 75$, keep grinding those 1-5$ tournies and build it up to a bigger number before you enter those 10-20$ (I'd say at least 300$ for 10$, and 5-600$ for 20$). And if you do go to 10-20 and can't win, simply move back down to a place where you can dominate. When you feel yourself start to tilt, leave. Period. Stick with what you do best, play smart, grind it out, and you'll win - it's a simple as that.

great post PO,

honestly i been where you are NBA, many times. had a roll up to 400 - 500 a couple times and eventually tilt got the best of me and i had no concept of BRM and this was before i joined and was active here at CC.

now i understand BRM and HAVE APPLIED IT CONSISTENTLY. i think PO said it best when he said "forget about the money and focus on your game" This is great advice. The best thing for me personally was learning to 6 table on my laptop...before i joined CC and learned proper BRM i would play 1 maybe 2 tables max and play almost everyhand..cuz i got bored waiting for premium hands...but when i 6 table its so much better..more tables = more hands = more premiums = more profit = less boring = me not going busto

GL bud

I can't say much else to what's been said here, you just really have gotta stick to it next time, hope you can get over this

Brilliant first post, welcome to CC!

Dude if you cant control yourself after a bad beat it might just be a good idea to use that 'responsible gaming' option under requests on full tilt. Take a day off... forcefully.

I agree, take a day off.

When I get into a bad run that is still going on at day #2 I won't play for at least 2 days.

been there and done that myself

now i'm careful to follow BRM

I've been on 'vacation' for the past two weeks or so. Seems like I do better when I don't play everyday, which is tough.

I'm with Lizzy. taking a break is always a great option. After a couple of days of no poker you'll forget all about it. Then come back with a clear mind the next time you start.

Playing $10 and $20 sng's with a $75 roll is just crazy!

According to BRM it's crazy, according to someone who's played BM, it's kind of non fulfilling to play for that low stakes. I think that contributes more to the play for 'decent' money blowouts that he's going through.

It's weird, I have no compunctions about taking $300 to Commerce, but I have a hard time putting that into an Online site. [I'll have to start a new thread about that]

When an average dinner at Chili's is still $25, it's difficult to see a $5.40 win as a win.

Once a player begins to understand the long term goals, it gets easier. The best advice I can give a micro level noob is:

'Buying in a micro limit is like buying the instruction manual to a really expensive toy. You have to 'read the manual' until you can afford the toy'.

Anyway, I'm going to start a I want to play $20SNG NOW support group. We'll have meetings with coffee, cookies, and bad beat therapy.

That's actually a really good idea lol. I don't have a problem with moving up. It's moving down for me, I will do it but sometimes I hang on a little too long .

I'm glad you decided to register and post rather than to just read. Welcome to CC.

If you want to make money from playing poker, don't play online like fulltilt poker because there are too many bad beat. The system not only can see your cards, but also it can put next card on the board whatever they want.

Lmfao, they're everywhere....please wise up or leave, honestly. I think there's a rigged thread for you somewhere....

EDIT: Knock yourself out... http://www.cardschat.com/f46/online-...igation-70058/ (http://www.cardschat.com/f46/online-poker-rigged-investigation-70058/)

if u want to make money stay out of the micro stakes and strat at 50/1.00 dont be cheap sit down with some moolah rember scared money aint gonna make no money

Omg...I really don't know what to say. Let's start with the fact that if he sat down at 100nl he'd very likely be playing scared. Add the fact he'd also very likely get destroyed and your advice is what...oh yeah....less than useless.

I wonder if you have any idea what kind of bankroll you need to play 100nl properly? $5000, that's probably about right...if you're a winner.

The highest level i'd recommend maximum to learn this game is 25nl, then again it's better to start at 10nl. You can also never discount the learning experience of beating 2nl and 5nl, skills one day you may learn yourself like titl control, patience (in moving up) and bankroll management. Not to mention things like betting properly, hand reading and hand values.

Until then please stop giving out advice like that that is not only useless but harmful. I'm sorry if I went overboard but advice like that makes me angry, seriously.

What if you play .50/1 at 50nl? 100nl is deepstacked at FT. But yeah, I agree theres no point in rushing out of microstakes with basically his whole bankroll. That's just retarded.

i'm just going to keep grinding $1-$2 SNGs and maybe the rare $5 sng.

Altogether you know what your problem is already - moving up too fast -and getting cocky on the way.

I know that because I had a similar problem during the last weeks - and pulled the breaks....

Apart from the 80$ (withdrew 100$) on FT -I'll post the sharkscope FT realmoney graph - I hover at about 200$ on the other sites I have a BR on.

I'm down to microgrinding and worked hard to get these minimal BRs without going busto and without depositing (or rakeback ).

I keep a daily stat (on a spreadsheet) of buy-ins and winnings.

I need to check on myself and writing it down is a first step imo.

Note where and why I pulled the break and what it changes...

Poker Orifices post should show you the right way to handle Bankroll MANAGEMENT - manage it don't gamble.^^

Nothing to add because you say it all.

I follow a strict 40 buyin BR-limit for sngs nowadays - and 5$ seems to be out of your current BR easily imo.

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You actually might be better off getting staked (then you'd have to stick within the parameter of what your backer had laid out for you and couldnt' deviate from the games you'd agreed upon). Otherwise I think I'd just quit, lol (seriously though.... it must be depressing to go busto... I've only had it happen on one online poker account and was/is on a site I hate and never play on there anyways). I know of others who are really good players but go busto constantly. I'm not sure what the driving force is.... some say we can become conditioned to losing... almost expecting it (or even addicted to it...the losing I mean).
I actually have the opposite concern/problem - - I'm a HUGE bankroll NIT and have often stayed playing in buyins too low for my bankroll and actually have better results in marginally higher buyin levels. I fear moving up on account of a) going busto b) not being rolled for the games I want to play c) emotions are my worst enemy and I HATE losing
Going to take a shot at some marginally higher buyin MTTs online as I've got some $75 tokens set aside on Fulltilt collecting dust.
Another weird thing for myself (just read something similiar in another thread on here somewhere)... in live tourneys I have no problem with spending $75 to $350 in a heartbeat but online I feel like it's mandatory to satellite into anything over $25 buyin. It's insane,.... I hoard my online poker bucks like a security blanket.

Under your BR??? Wow, i wish i had your control. You have good reasons for why of course... but damn, i never even thought i could do that! Play under what my br can support... what a strange idea! :O lol.

~Take regular breaks when you have a big loss, turn off your computer straight away and go and rest for maybe a few hours or a few days depending on the kind of person you are and how bad you are when you go on tilt.
Also i recommend watching the Chris Ferguson bankroll management video on full tilt poker academy.
adsthepro

calm down bro, everyone wants to win money, EVERYONE, why else would we play? but it seems you get antsy, patience is a virtue, wait it out and play as usual a bad beat is a hand or two not EVERY hand, just play it slow

lol, i know you hear it but thats poker.. like you i tilt to and i do a damn good job at it.. i can tilt and lose 5 in a row.. But I AM UP.....11TH in the cashout for a buck 60 whaat

Playing $1-$5 SNGs with a $7 BR is just as crazy IMO. A BR is a poker players life line. If you BR can be easily replaced it's a budget not a BR. With $7 and good BRM you should be playing the 25 cent daily dollar sattys. PO has it right you need to remove yourself emotionally from the money and concentrate on playing your best poker. IMO it's much better to be over rolled for a given level as it makes it easier to focus on the game and not money. The focus shouldn't be on how much can be won or lost but whether or not your making better decisions than the opponants. If your consistantly making better plays than the opponants you will win in the long run. And if you don't have good BRM skills there will never be a long run only a bunch of short runs ending in bad beats or coolers.

Interesting. I'm the same way but have never thought that might be a problem until now.

The method behind my madness is frequency of play and the actual size of my live and online poker bankrolls, which I keep separate. I usually play live once a month for a couple of days--a tourney or 2 ($50-$80-$100 buy-ins) and cash games (sitting down with $150-$200 to start). My live BR covers that adequately, as well as a cushion if I happen to be running cold. I also have a stop loss limit. I must be doing that OK because I've netted a profit for the last 3-4 years.

Online is totally different. My online BR is no where near the size of my live one. No way could I play at the stakes I do live. Online I generally play at least one tourney a day,if not more, and cash games an average of 3-4 times a week. I play below my BR (about half of what I "should" be)because I am still struggling with my ROI and effective online play which is so different from live. While I must be getting somewhat better because I haven't had to deposit in quite some time, I still feel like I'm treading water.

For me, there is also a psychlogical factor. In the past, I found that when my BR took a serious dive I would start to play in desperation mode which compounded the problem.

Writing all this out is helping me look at the situation more objectively. Yes, I confess--I hoard my online BR like a security blanket too. I'm actively playing with half and the other half sits in my online accounts like in a piggy bank gathering no interest. Maybe it's a rainy day kind of mentality? Or, as Poker Orifice said, is it plain and simple insanity?!

No matter what advice anyone gives you, your judgment will decide if you bust or not. I'm pretty sure everyone here knew at one point, that they're not supposed to be playing at the stakes, but they still did it. After getting busted out a couple of time, you'll know the pain, and learn from it. When you're on tilt, you have to have the discipline to walk away and comeback with a fresh new perspective.

Maybe this is the right thread for you to look at nba2K:

February Fulltilt BR builder challenge 2010

No matter what advice is given to you, it's ultimately going to come down to your discipline. I know these guys have told me to take a break, breathe, go get some coffee, hang out with friends, etc.

You know what you are supposed to do but, it always comes down to what you emotionally and mentally feel like doing. I've blown the advice I'm given here out the window with resulting busto. Now, I listen.

I have same expenience with you and what I am doing now is getting myself to win again in the games...one of the way is to change the type of games what you're playing...e.g. from MTT to cash tables/SNG...you wont go tilt when you can win $$$ ... GOOD LUCK!!!

Lots of good advice, thanks for starting this thread NBA2K10ROCKETS.

Welcome Lineproducer, glad you came out of lurk mode! Um, where do I sign up for the support group?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poker Orifice

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Another weird thing for myself (just read something similiar in another thread on here somewhere)... in live tourneys I have no problem with spending $75 to $350 in a heartbeat but online I feel like it's mandatory to satellite into anything over $25 buyin. It's insane,.... I hoard my online poker bucks like a security blanket.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LarkMarlow

...

Yes, I confess--I hoard my online BR like a security blanket too. I'm actively playing with half and the other half sits in my online accounts like in a piggy bank gathering no interest. Maybe it's a rainy day kind of mentality? Or, as Poker Orifice said, is it plain and simple insanity?!

Hmmm, unsure why I had probs with multi-quoting...had to copy & paste?

OMG, I thought I was the only one who had separate poker bankrolls & hoarded the online one as though it were Fort Knox! SO thinks I'm insane but I'm determined not to make any future deposits to FT & I only have plans to replace the $50 initial deposit I had @ PS (used the funds + all winnings to purchase leatherass' book & send to the Haiti Fund...leaving a bal = $0.25) after PS Security verifies my ID to update my personal info...incorrect B-Day, month & day transposed?! The odd thing is I'll spend more on a pair of shoes than I will deposit online .