gambling or skill?

Gambling or Skill??


When I find myself at a poker table I look across the table and know I can beat most of the people in front of me. I can see the itch of a fish in the corner of their eye.

I watch as player after player gets knocked out one by one. I am still in because I have been playing fairly tight to protect my chip stack from the suck outs roaming in the air.

I get to the final table and see the same two fish across from me that had been throwing chips into the pot without a care the entire tourny. I shake my head because I know I do not stand a chance..... They have the lucky of the fish on their side. Eventually they will suck out on me.. and I will lose.


ANYONE ELSE FEEL THIS WAY???

I am on the same page as Mike "THE MOUTH" here. If you think or feel it, it will come. Keep the bad thoughts out of your head. Let's always be positive. If BR management is correct your gonna be OK in the end. I have been here. However, I ain't going back.

Lefty

I like the new "Mouth". I really think that diet has changed his game play and life. I do miss the old crazy mike, but I like the new one too.

I feel like this everyday. Crazy mofos going all in preflop with not a care in the world. I'm just like "buddy....you can raise without going all in". These are the kind of people that bet like this cause their luck is impregnable. They go all in with pocket 10s, you call with Ace King suited, they make a set of 10s....luck murders skill any day of the week my friend and its sucks a huge one =/

No I am always happy to see fishes on my table and when i loose to them by a suckout i am ok because i know that i made the right play and on long term i will awin alot against them

honestly wouldnt see why you would be sad they were there. If your playing well you might lose here and htere but you will be up in the long term.

No reason to let a few bad beats get the best of you, or someones random luck change your mind

The orginal question was gambling or skill. Can anyone provide me with a definitive test. I am very intested in a court case that would help clear this issue. To the point that I might set/up a test case for mo. courts. Any help here?

Yes I see this way too much.Donkey getting rewarded with being chip leaders and maken the finale table.

The more skill you have & the better your decisions, the luckier you will become. Remarkably similar to Life it's ownself.

do i think poker is gambling ...yes i do....but youl need Skill! to gamble right at poker..use skill to beat oppnts with a better hand use skill to minimize the chance you get knocked out you need a bit of luck.
but to win youl need more then luck alone youl need skill especially on a longer term skill is more important then luck.
do i think poker is in the same gambliiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiicategory as for example a slot machine...hell no!!!
poker is a game of strategy,skill ,and gambling is just a little part of it
with gambling u have bit of luck once or twice and youl win..but on the long term the house always wins!
with poker its possible to beat the house on a regular basis...when i take that fact in concideration i say poker is a game of skill!

I think in the end poker is a game of skillful gambling. You will get sucked out on and donked around a bit, but as time goes on you will eventually win out as long as you are putting yourself in the position to win.

Feel lik ethis every day. Always at the begining of a tourney, theres one or two guys a'ALL-IN' every hand preflop. And you know you want to call them when its right, You pick up KK or AK and call straight away and they either hit that rag A or flop a set or the runner runner straight. I Think i play good poker, i take some chances sometimes but on the whole i think i make reads and id say 75% i make the right call....However my cards hold about 20% so its not my call thats killing me its the suck outs. Makes you wonder...How do you play poker? lol

This is the wrong way of thinking. It's good to notice who the weaker players at the table are but don't let them affect you in a negative way. Thinking things like 'I don't stand a chance because I play with skill and they play with luck' is completely negative and not a good way to approach the game. Remind yourself that you can beat them easily because you have the skills to; you have more of an advantage than they do because you know more about the game. You adjust yourself to their style of play to give a better chance at beating them. They don't have those skills, but if you're going to give them more credit than they deserve and let it affect you mentally, then you've already lost because you're thinking is allowing the weaker players' to beat you. I've found out that you can play your best game ever, but if you're thinking and mental approach to the game is not right, you're just setting yourself up to lose. You're going to let small things affect you when they shouldn't.

Keep in mind that even the best of the best players lose all of the time. No one is subject to not losing. Also, keep in mind that it is virtually impossible to win a tournament on just skill alone. You're going to need a little luck now and then. The only difference is those who rely on luck alone will almost never get anywhere. They might win now, but in the long run they will lose. And those who rely on skill will win more in the long run. As long as you're making those correct decisions and playing on skill, you'll come up in the end.

So, instead of worrying about 'They're going to get lucky, suck-out on me, and I'll lose' concentrate on you knowing you can beat them. You knowing you're the better player, you have more skill, you take advantage of the mistakes they make while they make them over and over again. You might lose a few times, but you'll know you'll triumph in the long run.

knowing when to gamble is the best skill to have in nl poker

i know exactly how you feel. there is just some players that you play with that are so careless with their chips your really cant put them on any certain hand becuase their playing everythiing..on the other hand when i try this strategy it never works? haha idk what it is..but some people just have the luck they need mixed in with a little knowledge of the game and some skill and it works for them! i wish i had that combination!

Pretty much all sports have a degree of luck. The ball is in or out by an inch, the ref makes a bad call, an injury changes the game. The difference between winning and losing is so small sometimes. Poker certainly isn't like pulling the lever on a slot machine and waiting to see what happens. You do have some control but not total control. In life, you never do. I've argued this with non poker players a lot, and they never get it.

Its definetly skill, if you have say like k 9 or something like that and your undecided wether to call, raise or fold, and you fold, then k 9 9 hits on the flop, you shouldnt feel bad and then say like ah my luck isnt in, if u think in the long run you know that you have made a skillful choice and that it will help you in the long run! but i agree with the other guy, knowing when to gamble is a skillful attribute!

Skill, roulette is gambling

Its gambling and skill

poker is gambling

poker takes skill to win

Yes yes, in the long run skill prevails, keep the big picture in mind...

What I like to say is when you win its skill and when you lose its luck. We forget the times when we win through luck because we are all vulnerable to sets. Say we raise with pocket kings and get low cards on flop, but somebody flopped a set of fives. Then we are unlucky and will lose a good amount. You also can't avoid preflop confrontations when you have kk and they have aa. You have to think your kk are the favorite preflop. So good luck at the tables and hopefully you have enough skill to not go bankrupt in the above situations.

So, skill has an inportant part in the game but if you don't have luck on your side your going to lose I guess.

In the first post he explains exactly what poker pretty much is. I would say it takes skill to get so far (like to the final table) but eventually everyone is in the money and calls just about anything because of the chips they have. So Id say in the last final tables its pretty much whoever is more lucky gets more chips landing 1st place.

well my saying on full tilt is best hand going in is usually the worst hand going out there are way to many suck outs going on cause it is hard to bet donks out of hands they seem to want to call everything now i just play it tight til i feel there is no way they can beat my hand and than ill push it and have seem to be doing better now since i had started that

some pros said its 70% skill and 30% luck. Knowing when to turn that luck in your favor is probably the most essential skill for the most skilled players. If you run cold the skilled players will still find a way to make money, most of the time I'd think.

Learning what the pros think is something I need to learn. Also the turning of the cards at the right time would be a big issue. Learning all that can't hurt when trying to play and win.

If you got those fish at your table you are only screwed if you are afraid. You have to take chances sometimes in poker, but you must take them when they are in your favor. This gaurantees that you'll win more often than not.

this is ez to demonstrate IMO. ever folded the best hand to a big bet or paid off some other guy's monster with a marginal holding?

I feel like this most of the time. When I play poker I don't wanna get lucky, I just don't want to get unlucky. And it's pretty much impossible for me to get lucky because I know when i'm behind and end up folding. Even when i have people dominated and crippled they still seem to get back up and start walking. Sucking out boards left right and center like a dirt devil on carpet.

lol

Seriously I'm amazed at the amount of superstition that exist amongst poker players. Usually people get superstitious in games of luck and it seems you are saying poker is a game of luck. Wrong!

Why would the fish be luckier than anyone else? . It's completely irrational and poker is a game that rewards the rational mind.

You will hit trip 10s just as many time as any other donkey or top player. It's unshakable mathematical certainty!!

One piece of advice. Do away with superstition of the kind present in your post.

poker is mainly skill, if it wasn't, then why do the same pros always seem to do very good. If there wasn't skill there would be no professionals. I'm not saying there is no luck involved, of course the cards you get and the community cards are luck. But it's how you play them.

Now seriously guys!!! I don't get it. This is rather basic poker theory.

The donkey calls your all in (or you call his) and he hits his top pair with ace rag while you're holding KK!!! You should be over the moon!! That's what every good poker player hopes for!!

Think about it. The donkey will beat you roughly 25% of the time or 1 in 4 times in that same spot. So imagine each all in is say 100 units:

You win your 1st: You +100 Donkey -100
You win the 2nd: You +200 donkey -200
Donkey wins the 3rd: You +100 donkey -100
You win the 4th: You +200 donkey -200

Now who would you rather be? The player up 200 units who had to suffer a bad beat? Or the Donkey on -200 units who managed to crack a pair of kings!!!

The problem is that players simply cannot accept that every hand is beatable. They expect AA to win every times head up whereas in fact it has to lose about 15% of the time.

But hey if you double up with more than 50% chance of winning, you are playing a favourable game.

Now donkeys are almost always behind meaning they have inbetween 25% and 40% chance of winning. They can only double up at the max. They are therefore playing an unfavourable game. It's what I like to call a "long term losing posture" where posture represents a series of losing positions and bad decisions.

Bad beats are hard to take but they are the necessary evil that's needed to be a winning player.

Don't be aggrieved by the bad beats!! Thinks about it. If you get bad beats, it's a good sign. It means you most often have the best hand going into a showdown (the sign of a good player). In other words you are likely to be on the 60%-75% side of things rather than 25%-40%! This is what long term profitability is.

So if I'm holding KK, I want the donkey to call as often as possible.

Just a side note. I'm a winning poker player but I am under no illusion as to my real ability. I'm no phil Ivey. The reason why I am a winning players is because there are donkeys out there who will call my KK with ace rag!!

So I'm all up for it!!

The game is gambling and skill.

Many players complain about the bad beats, but you know that you are going to hand out some beats also. Players typically remember the bad beats they lose to and start believing the game is all gambling and luck.

You should!!

In the long run, there is no luck involved. Luck does not exist in the long run, it's a short run phenomenon.

For many people "luck" is some kind of mystical force. Well I'll let the 90% of people on this planet believe in this mumbo jumbo (after all 1 in 5 person on Earth believe the Virgin Mary never had sex with Joseph!!!) and let them pay the consequences for their irrational thinking.

For me luck is a lot more tangible. It's what I like to call "a statistically unusual distribution of events". This only exist in the short run and the longer the timeframe, the less it exist.

Given the fact that we play thousands, or even tens of thousands of hands every year, luck is not a factor anymore. We'll all be dealt AA the same amount of time, we'll lose with a straight to a full house in the same proportion and we hit the flop just as often as anyone else!

But let's face it we wanna believe in luck because we want to justify our failures and that's the easy way to blind ourselves from reality for the sake of our own comfort or our own pride:

- "Of course I was unlucky!!"
- "I didn't do anything wrong"!!
- "I was fine, but I got struck by this mystical force called luck!!"
- "I feel better already, I managed to blame someone or something for my misfortune!!"

Perhaps some of you would like to think that way. Well without me!!

well if you go all in preflop with the worst hand and end up winning, that is luck not skill. Because there is nothing you can do to change the outcome of the community cards