Full Tilt Poker - A Warning To You All

wat

i have a feeling things will work themselves out.....i dont think ftp is trying to steal your money....you actually have to play in a game there before they do that lol....

It was kind of silly for you to think you could deposit $250 for the bonus and immediately withdraw most of it.

If poker sites were that stupid we would all be loaded.

LOL put 250 in an account simply to get more depositer bonus..and then try to withdraw 200 without doing anything....why didn't you just play poker for a day first??

Did you forget...POKER SITES ARE IN BUSINESS TO MAKE MONEY!!!

dakota-xx said:

It was kind of silly for you to think you could deposit $250 for the bonus and immediately withdraw most of it.

If poker sites were that stupid we would all be loaded.

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Yea, I just wanted to say.. lol..

You really think you can deposit $250 , take $200 back and get a 250$ bonus off of the $50 you left in your account?? I mean, thats like a $200 gift to you.. No one would be that stupid..

Just imagine a thousand people doing this.. FTP would need to pay 200k just like that.. Not that intelligent if you want to run a company and make money with it.

imo you should not wonder why they wont let you withdraw it.. And I'm sure that if you read their AGB's you would know about that..

Money transfers have a cost for the poker site. Typically, when you have a rakeback account, they charge you 3% of the amount in lost MGR, so I guess that's about the amount they pay neteller for the transaction costs. It makes sense that they are not too happy if you move money in and out without even playing.

Also, neteller gives you loyalty points for moving money, so you'd have an incentive to move money in and out as often as possible if the poker sites did not restrict it somehow.

Finally, in order to clear a $250 bonus, you'll need to pay about $600 in rake. It's kind of optimistic to try to do that with a $50 bankroll.

Overall, what you did is kind of stupid. Of course you should get your money back in the end, but you can't blame the site for having procedures in place to detect and restrict suspicious activities like yours. You can blame them for being kind of slow in answering emails to support, but that's never been FT's strong point, tbh.

^^^ belgo said it best.

Thinking you can deposit $250 for a bonus and then withdraw most of it straight away is madness, MADNESS!!!

I have a sneaking suspicion that you'll be eagerly racking up posts to enter the freeroll club in the near future???

You'll get your money back eventually, full tilt are v.slow with their customer service and payments, but maybe i wouldnt be expecting a big bonus lol

As all of you might be right, i dont think that NOT answering is the right thing to do by FTP support...
aC

I appreciate your comments, especially the time that belgo has taken to leave a lengthy reply. I will point out however that I regularly profit from poker and that any level of optimism I choose to employ is my choice alone.

I do understand that FTP have to pay their cashiers etc., but all they need to do is to make a rule that all bonuses are void upon first withdrawal to avoid this scenario from occuring. I know other players whom have acted in the same manner as me without forfeit.

But let's not forget that this is my money after all. They have already had an option to refund me and to tell me that they do not want my custom. Instead they are keeping my funds from me, that is the issue here.

Thank-you again for taking the time to reply.

I agree the site did nothing wrong. If you read there terms and services they have a certain amount of time before they will withdrawal your money after you make an initial deposit. I believe ftp is 1 week to 2 weeks. Don't quote me on that though. What you did wasn't a criminal offense because it is your money and you are allowed to change your mind, but you did try to get a $250 bonus for only $50 deposit.

It will all work out. Just next time don't try to work the system.

Best of luck.

MagicFriend said:

and immediately deposited the entire amount with Full Tilt Poker in order to maximize my bonus potential. Due to the exchange rate I ended up depositing $250, of which I then withdrew $200 and left myself a $50 bankroll to play with. I also wanted to see how long withdrawals took with them as I am used to receiving funds within an hour of making a request, and to make sure that my account was running smoothly before playing 'for real'

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You requested a withdrawal to see how long it would take? Running smoothly? Come on now. :laugh: Don't know where you see that they accused you of a crime. Sounds like they accused you of exactly what you did, namely depositing money with the intention of withdrawing it. You say yourself you deposited the max amount you could for the bonus. Now, I don't know the terms and conditions for the bonus or immediate withdrawals. I believe you usually have to play with that money for the bonus.

That said, still don't know why they wouldn't refund your money, and take away your bonus. But they did not say they would not refund it. All they said was "Your account will remain closed until we receive a satisfactory response from you." Now, what they deem is "satisfactory", I don't know. You might think it none of their business what your reasons are, and I might agree, but your behavior is suspicious, and your intentions were not on the 'up and up'. Probably best to play along and cooperate at this point - perhaps something like "something's come up, and I really need the money, very sorry for any trouble, please refund at your convenience."

"your silence suggests to me that it is your intention to keep this money from me" - After 7 hours?

I agree

BelgoSuisse said:

Money transfers have a cost for the poker site. Typically, when you have a rakeback account, they charge you 3% of the amount in lost MGR, so I guess that's about the amount they pay neteller for the transaction costs. It makes sense that they are not too happy if you move money in and out without even playing.

Also, neteller gives you loyalty points for moving money, so you'd have an incentive to move money in and out as often as possible if the poker sites did not restrict it somehow.

Finally, in order to clear a $250 bonus, you'll need to pay about $600 in rake. It's kind of optimistic to try to do that with a $50 bankroll.

Overall, what you did is kind of stupid. Of course you should get your money back in the end, but you can't blame the site for having procedures in place to detect and restrict suspicious activities like yours. You can blame them for being kind of slow in answering emails to support, but that's never been FT's strong point, tbh.

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Well said Belgo and I couldn't agree more. I have transfered plenty of money on, around, and off of FTP and there has never been a problem. Sometimes around the holidays it takes a bit longer to get a withdraw, but thats to be understood for alot of ppl r doing the same thing.

FWIW, the last time i withdrew $1000 from FTP to neteller, i took 3 seconds to get approved. Of course, I actually do play on FTP.

OP, you have to completely understand that what you did could appear to Full Tilt as any number of shady actions that they have seen time and time again:

1) Bonus Scam. Depositing an amount to get a higher bonus, then withdrawing most of it to use for other things.

2) Money Laundering. Depositing money and immediately withdrawing it to cause a paper (or electronic) trail to hide the money's true origins.

3) Deposit intended for P2P transfer. Playing very little on the site before manipulating funds again, many times transferred to other players to pay real life debts.

Even though you may not have the intention of any of these, you have to really understand that you have set yourself up for your actions to appear like any of these. The staff at Full Tilt have probably seen this go on a ton and have safeguards in place to prevent it from happening again. And they've probably heard every excuse in the book. To them, if it walks like a duck, it's usually a duck. Perfectly understandable for them.

Oh and P.S.: Try not to include your HTML tags when you copy and paste to forums.

Also FTP's support is not exactly the best in the world.

PS is probably the only site that you get a response from in about 10-15 minutes or less.

I don't know what went wrong w/ all the text in your post but it's all messy & I have ADD & CANNOT understand it. If it's cleaned up a little, I would be happy to respond w/ my opinion.

GL on the tbls

dakota-xx said:

It was kind of silly for you to think you could deposit $250 for the bonus and immediately withdraw most of it.

If poker sites were that stupid we would all be loaded.

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BINGO

akaCLINT said:

As all of you might be right, i dont think that NOT answering is the right thing to do by FTP support...
aC

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And another BINGO.....

People do some strange things sometimes.

fwiw FTP has recently cracked down on accounts made solely for transfers. Many services (coaching sites, products like HEM/PT, etc.) that used to take site transfers no longer can unless the person offering the services plays there.

Rule number one when dealing with these situations.

#1 - Always be as courteous and polite as possible. Defensive responses typically will lead them to think you are trying to cover something up. Explain everything to them clearly and cordially and provide whatever information they ask for.

They are not out to rip you off. Thousands and thousands of people make successful deposits/withdraws from FTP, they are one of the most reputable poker sites out there.

My suggestion would be to write them a very polite e-mail recapping the entire situation and suggest that they remove your bonus and refund the full amount... or if you still want to play there just ask them to reactivate your account and cancel the withdrawl request. Show some willingness to work with them will go a long way.

Still shaking my head here...you really thought you could scam them for $250 bonus by depositing $250, then withdrawing $200? Are you sure you've played online poker before? Incase you skipped this part I'll post it for ya:
100% Deposit Bonus
Get a 100% Deposit Bonus Just For Signing Up - Up to $600

full tilt poker is pleased to continue offering deposit bonuses to new players. New sign-ups will receive a 100% matching bonus up to $600 on your initial deposit to Full Tilt Poker.
Here's how!

For each dollar raked from a pot, every player who was dealt cards for that hand will earn one point. You can earn partial points if less than one dollar is raked, and you can earn up to three points per hand.
Each point is worth $.06, so you can earn up to $18 per hundred hands.

For every dollar paid in tournament or Sit 'N' Go fees, you will receive 7 Full Tilt Points. There is no cap on the number of points you can receive.
The bonus amount will be automatically credited to your Bonus Account where it will be held and released to your cash account in increments of 10% of your initial deposit, or $20, whichever you earn first. So if you do a one-time deposit of $100, each $10 (10%) earned will be instantly released into your account. Deposit the full $600 and your account will get credited for each $20 of bonus earned. At three points per hand, each $20 increment can be earned in fewer than two hours of play at only one table.
You can see your cash total and bonus cash amounts in the Cashier window. You will continue to collect cash until you have received 100% of your bonus money. You have 120 days to earn your deposit bonus.
This offer is available to players making their FIRST deposit at Full Tilt Poker.
See you at the tables!
Team Full Tilt

MagicFriend said:

I ended up depositing $250, of which I then withdrew $200 and left myself a $50 bankroll to play with.

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I have absolutely nothing to gain from this and being a player I'm all for protecting a player's rights. However, you were obviously trying to rip Full Tilt off and had no intention of playing with that money. I have to take Full Tilt's side on this. You deposited that money in bad faith.

Had you deposited $250, made $200 profit, then had troubles withdrawing $200 or it'd be another story. Of even if you played 10,000 hands with a $100 loss and asked to withdraw $100 I can understand.

Yes, I think you should get your money back eventually, but this hassle (for both you and Full Tilt) would never have happened had you operated in good faith.

SavagePenguin said:

I have absolutely nothing to gain from this and being a player I'm all for protecting a player's rights. However, you were obviously trying to rip Full Tilt off and had no intention of playing with that money. I have to take Full Tilt's side on this. You deposited that money in bad faith.

Had you deposited $250, made $200 profit, then had troubles withdrawing $200 or it'd be another story. Of even if you played 10,000 hands with a $100 loss and asked to withdraw $100 I can understand.

Yes, I think you should get your money back eventually, but this hassle (for both you and Full Tilt) would never have happened had you operated in good faith.

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I agree with this 100%

Okay, let me see if I can clear some things up for you.

I WIN at poker, and I am currently operating at a return on investment of +28%, I therefore have no need to have a huge bankroll on any site, $50 is a more-than-adequate starting block for me.

Another thing is that you can cut-paste whatever terms and conditions you want, I have not seen one that prevents withdrawals while trying to achieve a bonus, have any of you?

If I could have laid my hands on the full $600 then I would have deposited that, but would I have been expected to leave it all there for 6 months while I achieve all of the bonus?

I do understand that things are different on that side of the pond, and that US citizens are the fattest, stupidest and most criminal people on the planet, but where I am from we still operate an 'innocent untill proven guilty' policy.............. no Black Water Security here thank-you very much.

If these scams that have been mentioned take place, then don't FTP have a responsibility to change their rules?, rather than say to me that they 'think' that I am about to commit a crime, and are therefore withholding my money from me?

Somehow I do not think that I am the first person to have used whatever money he can lay his hands on for a '100% first deposit bonus', and I doubt I'll be the last. This is why I have posted, to prevent others from suffering the distress that I have.

I do not see how I have 'ripped off FTP', how have I profited? This bonus has a wagering requirement which is irrespective of my account balance.

Anyway, I know who my friends are.

To update you, FTP have been contacted by AGCC, and I have now received an apology. I have not however received my money. They have re-opened my account, and I have submitted another withdrawal request, for my entire initial deposit of $250.

I will update again when something new happens, for those whom are interested.


PS I am sorry about the hypertext tags, I have no idea why they are there as I wrote this in Word and then did a cut/paste, I tried to remove them without success.