Folding top set

#1 28th October 2007, 7:20 AM

A poker riddle for you - please don't google or it'll ruin the surprise.

Is there ever any situation where you would fold 99 for top set on an unpaired rainbow flop? If so, what would it be, and what would be your opponent(s) hand(s)?

#2 28th October 2007, 8:13 AM

duh: you're colluding with someone else to let them win $$

#3 28th October 2007, 8:23 AM

Opponent is first to act. flop comes 9TJ, all diamonds. He shows me QKd before going all-in. I'm literally drawing dead, and I make the pro laydown, but I'm guessing that's not the right answer

#4 28th October 2007, 8:24 AM

Wait that doesn't work, you said top set. OK, 789d, he has 56d.

#5 28th October 2007, 8:34 AM

Nope nope and nope

edit: see next post of mine for actual details...

#6 28th October 2007, 8:39 AM

No i couldn't fold top set on a unpaired rainbow flop, no way. There's no way u could lose, except on the draws, on the flop if they were to hit on turn and river, but u can't fold there though, or unless there was a straight out on the flop, but if no straight on flop, then no.

#7 28th October 2007, 8:40 AM

I would say flop: 789
opp has JT.

I probably still wouldn't fold.

#8 28th October 2007, 8:51 AM

SORRY...ok like I said, I'm bad at this...

Perfect wording here:

Is there ever a situation where 99 for top set is the right play on a rainbow flop where there are no possible straights?

(knowing your opponents hole cards is possible)...

#9 28th October 2007, 8:56 AM

I hate you.

#10 28th October 2007, 8:57 AM

you said earlier that you dont know your opponents hole cards???

i am confused

#11 28th October 2007, 8:57 AM

j/k...but seriously now I'm confused and pissed.

#12 28th October 2007, 8:59 AM

Botched it for you guys, sorry. Latest one is the real riddle. I should be sleeping now and I'm not getting things right....

#13 28th October 2007, 9:03 AM

ok, I think I got it. You opp has top set as well with a better kicker.
for instance you hold: T9
opp holds: A9
Flop is 995

#14 28th October 2007, 9:03 AM

i still couldn't fold top set, with no possible draws, no way

#15 28th October 2007, 9:05 AM

handle, that's a good point, but i thought chuck meant 99 as ur hand, and a 9 on the flop, i might be mistaken though.

#16 28th October 2007, 9:08 AM

what naruto said;

set = pair hitting 3 of a kind
trips = unpaired cards hitting 3 of a kind

#17 28th October 2007, 9:16 AM

are we playing hold em or omaha? In omaha i guess a double straight draw or wrap (I think) with a flush draw would be a favorite over top set. So I could see folding in this situation.

#18 28th October 2007, 9:29 AM

Nope, Hold'em.

There are no tricks or anything sneaky in this. Straight up legit answer here, but I'm not sure anyone will get it. Think winning %s. Think multiway pot

#19 28th October 2007, 9:43 AM

Ok, well here's my last guess and then I'm off to bed.

I guess if you had enough opp in the pot where you thought they all had strong pocket pairs you could fold.

For instance 5 other players are in pot with TT, JJ, QQ, KK, AA (all pockets)then there is a decent chance your ass will lose the pot!!! But with that scenerio if you made it to the flop with 99 then you probably deserve to lose anyways.

#20 28th October 2007, 9:44 AM

I also forgot to add all of those pocket pairs (besides your 99) are suited. =)

#21 28th October 2007, 9:50 AM

very very close!

(suited pairs aside of course )

#22 28th October 2007, 9:59 AM

Ok say is a family pot. All 9 players are in. Feeling good drinking some whiskey. You hold 99.
P1 TT
p2 JJ
p3 QQ
p4 KK
p5 AA
p6 88
p7 77
p8 66

with all these guys in maybe you could fold? Certainly somebody would hit an over set on you. If not let's talk about something I like to call 4 of a kind.

#23 28th October 2007, 10:00 AM

also one player could hold 89 making 4 of a kind obsolete for yourself.

#24 28th October 2007, 10:04 AM

almost there....so what would the flop be?

#25 28th October 2007, 10:08 AM

Flop would be 965.
I guess one opp would for sure have 98.
Another for sure 66
Another for sure 55
Then add all the over pp as well.

#26 28th October 2007, 10:09 AM

TAKE THAT BACK.
FLOP is 954
One opp has 67.
One opp has 55.
One opp has 44.
Add all the other over PP.

#27 28th October 2007, 10:19 AM

Well close enough

However right you get it, it's just to degrees of how dead you're drawing.

The example (from here) says this:

Your ten opponents hold AA through JJ, 66, 33, 78s, 45s and 57s. Flop is 9c 6s 3d (suits don't matter, but it's rainbow).

In that case you are technically ahead atm, but you're drawing to one out twice since any other card will kill you. A ten or a deuce will give you additional outs for a FH (T or 2 would fill the FH; others would only give quads to someone else). The case 9 will of course win it for you assuming noone makes a backdoor straight flush

#28 28th October 2007, 10:21 AM

my head hurts.

#29 28th October 2007, 10:26 AM

Mine too.

see link for a better explanation

I suck.

#30 28th October 2007, 10:29 AM

Well in there were 10 players then this would be the worse scenerio.
Flop 9-5-4
1-5 hold tens through aces.
6 holds 55
7 holds 44
8 holds 67
9 holds A3
You being the 10th holding 99.

Your only safe cards would be the case 9 and a 5 or 4 if it didn't hit twice.

#31 28th October 2007, 10:32 AM

FORGET ABOUT MY LAST RESPONSE!!! I"M DONE. After re-reading your answer I can cleary see it now. G1. Now I'm really done.

#32 28th October 2007, 10:50 AM

damn, that's a n1 i really didn't even think about it like that, lol... Ty once again, u should do these more often, if it's possible

#33 28th October 2007, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChuckTs

Well close enough

However right you get it, it's just to degrees of how dead you're drawing.

The example (from here) says this:

Your ten opponents hold AA through JJ, 66, 33, 78s, 45s and 57s. Flop is 9c 6s 3d (suits don't matter, but it's rainbow).

In that case you are technically ahead atm, but you're drawing to one out twice since any other card will kill you. A ten or a deuce will give you additional outs for a FH (T or 2 would fill the FH; others would only give quads to someone else). The case 9 will of course win it for you assuming noone makes a backdoor straight flush

Bleh I brought this up a while ago actually (top set is actually drawing to quads - only way of winning). http://www.cardschat.com/f50/nuts-bu...-behind-92787/ (http://www.cardschat.com/f50/nuts-but-still-behind-92787/)

#34 28th October 2007, 11:41 PM

Yeah, dont fold a set. Sure there's a possible straight, but its very unlucky. As Dan Harrington says, if your set gets outflopped youre supposed to lose a lot of money. And several times I have flopped a straight on the flop and got all in against a player who flopped a set, and he wins with a full house when the board pairs on the turn or river.

#35 30th October 2007, 8:01 PM

If everyone could see my cards I'd push I think...

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